Jose Mourinho is just a rich Tony Pulis - discuss
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Original post by MagicNMedicine
Alex Ferguson is just a rich David Moyes.
Yes Fergie won all those trophies but he had far more money than Moyes had to spend at Everton, just think if Moyes was at United he would dominate the league.
Yes Fergie won all those trophies but he had far more money than Moyes had to spend at Everton, just think if Moyes was at United he would dominate the league.
You can directly compare Pulis' style of play and defensive record to Mourinho's though, as said in the OP.
Those weren't comparable for Moyes/Fergie before Moyes joined United...
Original post by MagicNMedicine
Alex Ferguson is just a rich David Moyes.
Yes Fergie won all those trophies but he had far more money than Moyes had to spend at Everton, just think if Moyes was at United he would dominate the league.
Yes Fergie won all those trophies but he had far more money than Moyes had to spend at Everton, just think if Moyes was at United he would dominate the league.
dat matchdayG logic
Original post by 9MmBulletz
How could I forget 
Surely you agree Henderson is not worth what was initially paid for him?
Surely you agree Henderson is not worth what was initially paid for him?
Of course they overpaid when they signed him. 99% of English players that are bought by a Premier League club are overpriced, you get the rare exception like Sturridge but overall they're a complete rip off.
He's still only 24 though, which means he's got a good 10 years ahead of him. If he gives Liverpool even 3 more seasons like this one it'll be worth every penny. It's like the reports linking us with Luke Shaw. Is he worth £30m now? Of course not, but he has the potential to nail down the LB position for a decade.
Original post by AnharM
Jose Mourinho is the closest manager, with Pep Guardiola, that guarantees you to win titles.
Whether his tactics are boring or defensive or whatever, he brings success, he wins titles regardless. He has the same kind of effect that Sir Alex had on Manchester Utd, the players play for him. They fight for him. That comes with his personality on the pitch and off the pitch, and his experiences of winning titles.
Imagine you're a player at West Ham, for example. And instead of seeing Allardyce walking through the doors to the changing rooms, you see Mourinho. You instantly think "oh ****, we've got a chance here. We could actually win this game." It's incredible really, the effect he has on the players, whether the tactics are bad or not.
Whether his tactics are boring or defensive or whatever, he brings success, he wins titles regardless. He has the same kind of effect that Sir Alex had on Manchester Utd, the players play for him. They fight for him. That comes with his personality on the pitch and off the pitch, and his experiences of winning titles.
Imagine you're a player at West Ham, for example. And instead of seeing Allardyce walking through the doors to the changing rooms, you see Mourinho. You instantly think "oh ****, we've got a chance here. We could actually win this game." It's incredible really, the effect he has on the players, whether the tactics are bad or not.
Mate what I don't get is, where has Allardyce even come into this?
Pulis can be argued to have the same effect on players - look at the odds of Palace staying up before his appointment and now.
I honestly don't understand this post. The question posed is 'Pulis >= Mourinho' and you respond with 'Mourinho > Allardyce'.
Where has Fat Sam come into this?
Original post by Zürich
Henderson is a workhorse who puts a shift in so other top class players can thrive. Those kinds of players arent all that rare tbh, i wouldnt want him for 20m no...
I wouldnt pay 20m for ray parlour either probs but he was a useful workhorse too, need these kinds of player.
I wouldnt pay 20m for ray parlour either probs but he was a useful workhorse too, need these kinds of player.
Honestly don't think Henderson atm is much better than Milner.
He's useful to have though.
Original post by jam277
Honestly don't think Henderson atm is much better than Milner.
He's useful to have though.
He's useful to have though.
Leave aside the fact that they play in different positions... Milner cost £30m, and Henderson £16m.
Original post by matchdayG
Leave aside the fact that they play in different positions... Milner cost £30m, and Henderson £16m.
Well Milner has played in central midfield before and Henderson has played right wing and right wing back this season, the positions Milner mainly played for Man City under Mancini.
But yes, there isn't room for either to play in the position that the other does.
I though you were better than this.
Original post by jam277
Well Milner has played in central midfield before and Henderson has played right wing and right wing back this season, the positions Milner mainly played for Man City under Mancini.
But yes, there isn't room for either to play in the position that the other does.
I though you were better than this.
But yes, there isn't room for either to play in the position that the other does.
I though you were better than this.
Henderson is a central midfielder, and James Milner is a predominantly ride sided winger.
They can play in each other's positions, but have settled in their current positions because they're not as good (nowhere near) in the other position.
Obviously Henderson > Milner in CM, and Milner > Henderson at RM/RW.
Nobody would say Sturridge and Schurrle are comparable.
Original post by matchdayG
Henderson is a central midfielder, and James Milner is a predominantly ride sided winger.
They can play in each other's positions, but have settled in their current positions because they're not as good (nowhere near) in the other position.
Obviously Henderson > Milner in CM, and Milner > Henderson at RM/RW.
Nobody would say Sturridge and Schurrle are comparable.
They can play in each other's positions, but have settled in their current positions because they're not as good (nowhere near) in the other position.
Obviously Henderson > Milner in CM, and Milner > Henderson at RM/RW.
Nobody would say Sturridge and Schurrle are comparable.
First bit I agree with.
Second bit I disagree with. I believe that if managers actually played milner as a CM he'd be just as good as Henderson, main thing would be adapting but he doesn't even need to do so.
Far as I'm concerned Milner, Henderson, Park ji sung and Ramires are the same type of player who gets put anywhere in midfield just to help out the team defensively and bring numbers when going forward.
Original post by jam277
First bit I agree with.
Second bit I disagree with. I believe that if managers actually played milner as a CM he'd be just as good as Henderson, main thing would be adapting but he doesn't even need to do so.
Far as I'm concerned Milner, Henderson, Park ji sung and Ramires are the same type of player who gets put anywhere in midfield just to help out the team defensively and bring numbers when going forward.
Second bit I disagree with. I believe that if managers actually played milner as a CM he'd be just as good as Henderson, main thing would be adapting but he doesn't even need to do so.
Far as I'm concerned Milner, Henderson, Park ji sung and Ramires are the same type of player who gets put anywhere in midfield just to help out the team defensively and bring numbers when going forward.
This is spot on
Original post by Zürich
This is spot on
Tbf to Henderson though, he has time on his side and he has improved his ball playing and gets into positions. But I honestly have to see next season in the CL how he does, I have no doubt the likes of Suarez and Sturridge will show how good they are in the CL as will Gerrard, the defence will be like the defence of last season but henderson isn't really that kind of guy you're gonna be pinning your hopes on. Especially as Liverpool have a team with a lot of players that could be in a CL winning team.
Original post by jam277
First bit I agree with.
Second bit I disagree with. I believe that if managers actually played milner as a CM he'd be just as good as Henderson, main thing would be adapting but he doesn't even need to do so.
Far as I'm concerned Milner, Henderson, Park ji sung and Ramires are the same type of player who gets put anywhere in midfield just to help out the team defensively and bring numbers when going forward.
Second bit I disagree with. I believe that if managers actually played milner as a CM he'd be just as good as Henderson, main thing would be adapting but he doesn't even need to do so.
Far as I'm concerned Milner, Henderson, Park ji sung and Ramires are the same type of player who gets put anywhere in midfield just to help out the team defensively and bring numbers when going forward.
If that's the case, then why have City spent money on Rodwell, Garcia, and Fernandinho?
Milner is a wide player, and an excellent one. Henderson is a central midfielder who can play wide if required - but will no longer do so for LFC. Neither are 'the type of player who gets put anywhere in midfield just to help out the team defensively and brings numbers when going forward' - that's just doing a disservice to them.
Just because Ramires is essentially this tactical weapon that you've described doesn't mean other players with a high work rate are. Park was a very tactically clever man-marker with a great eye for goals in big games.
Henderson's passing ability is massively underrated compared to how good it is. If you watch Liverpool week in and out for 90 mins, you'll only then realise how good Henderson could become.
He's a true physical athlete already and he's only 23. You'll only see him get faster and stronger over the next 2 seasons imo.
He's now been given a label of being a work horse but frankly while he's a does run a lot, it's intelligent running (which works in Liverpool's system). He's got great touch and pass and we regularly see the ball pinged around Liverpool's midfield but equally as his confidence is growing, we're seeing more through balls and long passes which are just as brilliant as Coutinho's and Gerrard's respectively.
If he can avoid any injuries over the next two years, he's going to become one of the best midfield players in the league. He won't get the plaudits because he doesn't have that one defining attribute in his style of player and Liverpool have so many other headliner grabbers.
In the next 2 years, he'll go through a purple patch of scoring (because he regularly gets in the right positions with his runs from deep or in the hole when the ball drops back out). Similar to what we've seen with Ramsey this season. Only then will the press and general supporters really start to rave about Henderson.
Some papers say £13mil (including Ayre), some say £16mil and some say £20mil. Frankly the price tag becomes less relevant the longer he stays at Liverpool. I think a lot of clubs would happily pay 15-20mil for Henderson now.
He's a true physical athlete already and he's only 23. You'll only see him get faster and stronger over the next 2 seasons imo.
He's now been given a label of being a work horse but frankly while he's a does run a lot, it's intelligent running (which works in Liverpool's system). He's got great touch and pass and we regularly see the ball pinged around Liverpool's midfield but equally as his confidence is growing, we're seeing more through balls and long passes which are just as brilliant as Coutinho's and Gerrard's respectively.
If he can avoid any injuries over the next two years, he's going to become one of the best midfield players in the league. He won't get the plaudits because he doesn't have that one defining attribute in his style of player and Liverpool have so many other headliner grabbers.
In the next 2 years, he'll go through a purple patch of scoring (because he regularly gets in the right positions with his runs from deep or in the hole when the ball drops back out). Similar to what we've seen with Ramsey this season. Only then will the press and general supporters really start to rave about Henderson.
Some papers say £13mil (including Ayre), some say £16mil and some say £20mil. Frankly the price tag becomes less relevant the longer he stays at Liverpool. I think a lot of clubs would happily pay 15-20mil for Henderson now.
Original post by jam277
Tbf to Henderson though, he has time on his side and he has improved his ball playing and gets into positions. But I honestly have to see next season in the CL how he does, I have no doubt the likes of Suarez and Sturridge will show how good they are in the CL as will Gerrard, the defence will be like the defence of last season but henderson isn't really that kind of guy you're gonna be pinning your hopes on. Especially as Liverpool have a team with a lot of players that could be in a CL winning team.
These kinds of players can surprise you at European level. Ray Parlour from Romford often looked out of place on paper next to his team mates, but he would run himself into the ground with a typical English intensity and tenacity and Continental sides didn't respond well to that. Players like that are typical PL. Henderson is very effective on the wing tbf but he sort of relies on Suarez/Sturridge causing panic with their movement and he then runs into the spaces rather than being pro-active himself. It's fine, it works.
I see Liverpool doing a BVB next season and focusing on the CL, and then finding their squad is stretched too far in the League. QFs are probably doable unless they get absolutely dicked in the group stage with a draw. They probably have some money to spend in the summer though to add depth, but BR's squad signings havent been all that thus far either.
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by Zürich
This is spot on
brb reads zurich's post on everyone underrating Arsenal players
brb reads zurich's post on how **** all of LFC's players are even after LFC 5-1 AFC
Original post by matchdayG
Mate what I don't get is, where has Allardyce even come into this?
Pulis can be argued to have the same effect on players - look at the odds of Palace staying up before his appointment and now.
I honestly don't understand this post. The question posed is 'Pulis >= Mourinho' and you respond with 'Mourinho > Allardyce'.
Where has Fat Sam come into this?
Pulis can be argued to have the same effect on players - look at the odds of Palace staying up before his appointment and now.
I honestly don't understand this post. The question posed is 'Pulis >= Mourinho' and you respond with 'Mourinho > Allardyce'.
Where has Fat Sam come into this?
This is such an incredibly **** argument, and I'm about to explain why.
Jose Mourinho has similar tactics as the likes of Tony Pulis, yes. Not the same tactics, but similar tactics. For example, if he managed Stoke, he would keep the solid defence, but he would tell his players to play the ball on the floor, rather than pumping it into the box.
And the main big difference you're ignoring, is that they have two different personalities. Tony Pulis won't be the manager that runs to the other side of the pitch to celebrate with his players and fans when Porto score a 90th min equaliser at Old Trafford. Pulis isn't the type of manager that would call himself "The Special One" after winning the CL. Pulis isn't the type of manager that would call Wenger a "Specialist in Failure." Pulis isn't the type of manager that would make controversial statements week in, week out. That's what makes Mourinho who he is. That's why he has such a huge effect on his players, they fight for him.
Tony Pulis has done an incredible job at Palace, but if you were to tell me that if Pulis took over at Chelsea next season, would he be able to win/challenge for the title? I wouldn't be optimistic. Only a boss like Carlo Ancelotti has won the title for Chelsea after Mourinho left, and after being 25ish points off the league leaders in the last two/three seasons, Mourinho has made Chelsea title challengers instantly after coming back.
I hope to god this is some kind of joke...
Mourinho without a competitive budget won the champions league with Porto (with fairly little experience) hence proving he doesn't need money
Jedinak is nowhere near the level Matic performs at
Matic has been (in my eyes) the signing of the season... We haven't conceded a home league goal since Hernandez scored for United... strangely... Matic played a few minutes of that game (a sub debut) and since then, the 'not conceding a home league goal' record has stuck
Jedinak offers little going forward whereas if you look at Matic's passing (particularly for the goal at Swansea), he adds to the Chelsea attack
I admire Pulis as a manager but football fans have this desire to make ludicrous comments just to cause a fuss... Mourinho > Pulis
If this wasn't the case, a big team would have taken him up already
Mourinho without a competitive budget won the champions league with Porto (with fairly little experience) hence proving he doesn't need money
Jedinak is nowhere near the level Matic performs at
Matic has been (in my eyes) the signing of the season... We haven't conceded a home league goal since Hernandez scored for United... strangely... Matic played a few minutes of that game (a sub debut) and since then, the 'not conceding a home league goal' record has stuck
Jedinak offers little going forward whereas if you look at Matic's passing (particularly for the goal at Swansea), he adds to the Chelsea attack
I admire Pulis as a manager but football fans have this desire to make ludicrous comments just to cause a fuss... Mourinho > Pulis
If this wasn't the case, a big team would have taken him up already
Original post by jam277
Far as I'm concerned Milner, Henderson, Park ji sung and Ramires are the same type of player who gets put anywhere in midfield just to help out the team defensively and bring numbers when going forward.
Far as I'm concerned Milner, Henderson, Park ji sung and Ramires are the same type of player who gets put anywhere in midfield just to help out the team defensively and bring numbers when going forward.
Milner tbf I thought really helped City get back into the match last Sunday. Navas, besides his early season form, has dipped massively and I'd rather have Milner on the right but Pellegrini hasn't played him but with his expected energy levels, he really would have offered something in the big games. Shame Pellegrini hasn't spotted that.
Like you said, all four of those players are an important type of player to have. Even Pirlo gave Park a back handed compliment in his recent autobiography excerpts that I read recently regarding latter's job on him in 2010.
Original post by Aky786UK
Milner tbf I thought really helped City get back into the match last Sunday. Navas, besides his early season form, has dipped massively and I'd rather have Milner on the right but Pellegrini hasn't played him but with his expected energy levels, he really would have offered something in the big games. Shame Pellegrini hasn't spotted that.
Like you said, all four of those players are an important type of player to have. Even Pirlo gave Park a back handed compliment in his recent autobiography excerpts that I read recently regarding latter's job on him in 2010.
Like you said, all four of those players are an important type of player to have. Even Pirlo gave Park a back handed compliment in his recent autobiography excerpts that I read recently regarding latter's job on him in 2010.
Milner did well against Liverpool, not putting anything against these type of players and they can get you back into a match or get you a winner(park vs Chelsea in CL, Ramires vs Barca etc.) It's true that he'd have offered something in the big games, but I think that Milner should play more centrally at times. The midfielders push high up the pitch and the fullbacks do the same, leaving loads of space for teams to exploit there, or Kompany/Demichelis will be exploited out of position. A Milner there who will help do the dogged work and track back would help tbh.
Pirlo is a bitter man btw.
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