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C4: confused differential equations

Hi,

So, I've come across a question which I thought I worked out correctly but my answer is way off so now I'm left confused. The question was:

dydx=y(x+1)(x+2)\frac{dy}{dx}=\frac{y}{(x+1)(x+2)} and y=2, x=1

So I put the y terms on the LHS and the left the x terms on the RHS. I then split the fraction on the RHS. This gave me the following to integrate:

1ydy=1x+11x+2dx\displaystyle \int \frac{1}{y} dy = \displaystyle \int \frac{1}{x+1} - \frac{1}{x+2} dx

This gave me the following:

ln|y| = ln|x+1| - ln|x+2| + c

c= ln|y| - ln|x+1| + ln|x+2|

c= ln|3| (when y=2, x=1, as given above).

Subbing this back into ln|y| = ln|x+1| - ln|x+2| + c gave me:

ln|y| = ln|x+1| - ln|x+2| + ln|3|

Raising everything to base e:

y=x+1 -(x+2) + 3
y=2

The correct answer is y=3(x+1)x+2 y=\frac{3(x+1)}{x+2}

When I took the approach of splitting the fraction, I was unsure if it was the correct thing to do, but I didn't know how else to approach the denominator.

Could anyone help?
Thanks
Marc
Reply 1
Hey. :biggrin:
What was the actual question asked?
It's easier to visualise your calculations against the actual question. :smile:

EDIT: Damn, it didn't show up how it does now... Sorry! Shame on me!

Your responses looks completely right so far...
I assume it's the application of the logarithm laws - they combine your terms and with ignorance of logarithms on both sides will equate to your differential equation in terms of x. :smile:
Posted from TSR Mobile
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by marcsaccount
Hi,

So, I've come across a question which I thought I worked out correctly but my answer is way off so now I'm left confused. The question was:

dydx=y(x+1)(x+2)\frac{dy}{dx}=\frac{y}{(x+1)(x+2)} and y=2, x=1

So I put the y terms on the LHS and the left the x terms on the RHS. I then split the fraction on the RHS. This gave me the following to integrate:

1ydy=1x+11x+2dx\displaystyle \int \frac{1}{y} dy = \displaystyle \int \frac{1}{x+1} - \frac{1}{x+2} dx

This gave me the following:

ln|y| = ln|x+1| - ln|x+2| + c

c= ln|y| - ln|x+1| + ln|x+2|

c= ln|3| (when y=2, x=1, as given above).

Subbing this back into ln|y| = ln|x+1| - ln|x+2| + c gave me:

ln|y| = ln|x+1| - ln|x+2| + ln|3|

Raising everything to base e:

y=x+1 -(x+2) + 3
y=2

The correct answer is y=3(x+1)x+2 y=\frac{3(x+1)}{x+2}

When I took the approach of splitting the fraction, I was unsure if it was the correct thing to do, but I didn't know how else to approach the denominator.

Could anyone help?
Thanks
Marc


lnx1lnx+2+ln3=ln3(x1)x+2ln|x-1|-ln|x+2|+ln|3|=ln|\frac{3(x-1)}{x+2}|
Original post by marcsaccount
Hi,

So, I've come across a question which I thought I worked out correctly but my answer is way off so now I'm left confused. The question was:

dydx=y(x+1)(x+2)\frac{dy}{dx}=\frac{y}{(x+1)(x+2)} and y=2, x=1

So I put the y terms on the LHS and the left the x terms on the RHS. I then split the fraction on the RHS. This gave me the following to integrate:

1ydy=1x+11x+2dx\displaystyle \int \frac{1}{y} dy = \displaystyle \int \frac{1}{x+1} - \frac{1}{x+2} dx

This gave me the following:

ln|y| = ln|x+1| - ln|x+2| + c

c= ln|y| - ln|x+1| + ln|x+2|

c= ln|3| (when y=2, x=1, as given above).

Subbing this back into ln|y| = ln|x+1| - ln|x+2| + c gave me:

ln|y| = ln|x+1| - ln|x+2| + ln|3|

Raising everything to base e:

y=x+1 -(x+2) + 3
y=2

The correct answer is y=3(x+1)x+2 y=\frac{3(x+1)}{x+2}

When I took the approach of splitting the fraction, I was unsure if it was the correct thing to do, but I didn't know how else to approach the denominator.

Could anyone help?
Thanks
Marc


Log laws. Turn your logs to a single log.

Posted from TSR Mobile
Reply 4
Original post by rayquaza17
lnx1lnx+2+ln3=ln3(x1)x+2ln|x-1|-ln|x+2|+ln|3|=ln|\frac{3(x-1)}{x+2}|



Hi - thanks for your help. Where does the line you wrote come into the working? What part did I go wrong?
Reply 5
[pleaseQUOTE]Hi,

So, I've come across a question which I thought I worked out correctly but my answer is way off so now I'm left confused. The question was:

dydx=y(x+1)(x+2)\frac{dy}{dx}=\frac{y}{(x+1)(x+2)} and y=2, x=1

So I put the y terms on the LHS and the left the x terms on the RHS. I then split the fraction on the RHS. This gave me the following to integrate:

1ydy=1x+11x+2dx\displaystyle \int \frac{1}{y} dy = \displaystyle \int \frac{1}{x+1} - \frac{1}{x+2} dx

This gave me the following:

ln|y| = ln|x+1| - ln|x+2| + c

c= ln|y| - ln|x+1| + ln|x+2|

c= ln|3| (when y=2, x=1, as given above).

Subbing this back into ln|y| = ln|x+1| - ln|x+2| + c gave me:

ln|y| = ln|x+1| - ln|x+2| + ln|3|

Raising everything to base e:

y=x+1 -(x+2) + 3
y=2

The correct answer is y=3(x+1)x+2 y=\frac{3(x+1)}{x+2}

When I took the approach of splitting the fraction, I was unsure if it was the correct thing to do, but I didn't know how else to approach the denominator.

Could anyone help?
Thanks
Marc


Please follow this link:

http://www.vivaxsolutions.com/maths/aldiffeqtns.aspx
Reply 6
Original post by marcsaccount
Hi,

So, I've come across a question which I thought I worked out correctly but my answer is way off so now I'm left confused. The question was:

dydx=y(x+1)(x+2)\frac{dy}{dx}=\frac{y}{(x+1)(x+2)} and y=2, x=1

So I put the y terms on the LHS and the left the x terms on the RHS. I then split the fraction on the RHS. This gave me the following to integrate:

1ydy=1x+11x+2dx\displaystyle \int \frac{1}{y} dy = \displaystyle \int \frac{1}{x+1} - \frac{1}{x+2} dx

This gave me the following:

ln|y| = ln|x+1| - ln|x+2| + c

c= ln|y| - ln|x+1| + ln|x+2|

c= ln|3| (when y=2, x=1, as given above).

Subbing this back into ln|y| = ln|x+1| - ln|x+2| + c gave me:

ln|y| = ln|x+1| - ln|x+2| + ln|3|

Raising everything to base e:

y=x+1 -(x+2) + 3
y=2

The correct answer is y=3(x+1)x+2 y=\frac{3(x+1)}{x+2}

When I took the approach of splitting the fraction, I was unsure if it was the correct thing to do, but I didn't know how else to approach the denominator.

Could anyone help?
Thanks
Marc


When you raise the lns, the whole of the RHS is raised to a single e, not each separate component.
Reply 7
You can use log laws to simplify it :smile:
ln3 + ln(x+1) simplifies to ln3(x+1)
And then ln3(x+1) - ln(x+2) simplifies to ln(3(x+1)/(x+2))

Anti-log both sides and you've got your equation in terms of x :smile:
Reply 8
Cool - the log law works. Thanks guys :biggrin:
Reply 9
Original post by TSR561
When you raise the lns, the whole of the RHS is raised to a single e, not each separate component.


I used the log laws and solved it. I know the whole thing gets raised to the base e, but how would that look as opposed to what I did, because that is what I tried to do.
Original post by marcsaccount
Hi,

So, I've come across a question which I thought I worked out correctly but my answer is way off so now I'm left confused. The question was:

dydx=y(x+1)(x+2)\frac{dy}{dx}=\frac{y}{(x+1)(x+2)} and y=2, x=1

So I put the y terms on the LHS and the left the x terms on the RHS. I then split the fraction on the RHS. This gave me the following to integrate:

1ydy=1x+11x+2dx\displaystyle \int \frac{1}{y} dy = \displaystyle \int \frac{1}{x+1} - \frac{1}{x+2} dx

This gave me the following:

ln|y| = ln|x+1| - ln|x+2| + c

c= ln|y| - ln|x+1| + ln|x+2|

c= ln|3| (when y=2, x=1, as given above).

Subbing this back into ln|y| = ln|x+1| - ln|x+2| + c gave me:

ln|y| = ln|x+1| - ln|x+2| + ln|3|

When you exponentiate this, you do not get what is written below in blue. You would get:

elnx1lnx+2+ln3=eln3(x1)x+2[br]e^{ln|x-1|-ln|x+2|+ln|3|}=e^{ln|\frac{3(x-1)}{x+2}|}[br]

Raising everything to base e:

y=x+1 -(x+2) + 3
y=2


The correct answer is y=3(x+1)x+2 y=\frac{3(x+1)}{x+2}

When I took the approach of splitting the fraction, I was unsure if it was the correct thing to do, but I didn't know how else to approach the denominator.

Could anyone help?
Thanks
Marc


See above.
Reply 11
Original post by rayquaza17
See above.


Thanks! But after you've exponentiated it, where does the ln|x-1| come from, and where has the ln|y| gone?
Original post by marcsaccount
Thanks! But after you've exponentiated it, where does the ln|x-1| come from, and where has the ln|y| gone?


Typo, I mean ln|x+1|

The ln|y| is now y. I haven't written it down though, I was explaining why your RHS is incorrect.

Do you understand now? :smile:
Reply 13
Original post by rayquaza17
Typo, I mean ln|x+1|

The ln|y| is now y. I haven't written it down though, I was explaining why your RHS is incorrect.

Do you understand now? :smile:


Yes, I do, perfectly :smile:

Thanks you for your time and help.
Original post by marcsaccount
Yes, I do, perfectly :smile:

Thanks you for your time and help.


No worries. :smile:

Good luck in any upcoming exams!
Reply 15
Original post by marcsaccount
I used the log laws and solved it. I know the whole thing gets raised to the base e, but how would that look as opposed to what I did, because that is what I tried to do.


You raised the LHS by e, getting elnye^{ln|y|}. Similarly, the RHS becomes elnx+1lnx+2+ln3e^{ln|x+1|-ln|x+2|+ln3}. It's just a slightly different method. You would use log laws at this point, as opposed to earlier like you did.

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