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Nuclear Weapons is a Big Sin - Iran's Supreme Leader Ayatollah Khamenei

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Ludicrous is subjective, from my perspective - and no doubt some others - you seem to fit the bill quite nicely.

Even though I condemn Israeli crimes and am anti-Zionism (or neutral towards it, at best)? You're the biased one here, not me.

You say you're not a Zionist but you seemingly support their expansion into and oppression of Palestine (because Israel is 'free' compared to the countries around it it's crimes can be mitigated?).
As Aj12 said above: "The actions of other countries are irrelevant." Just because Israel is less oppressive of it's own citizens than another country does not mean that it should be treated any differently when it breaches international law (something you seem to disagree with - as below).

There is no hope of a free Palestine until a large scale movement for liberal democracy emerges there. So far the opposite has happened (a large scale movement against liberal democracy). I would actually support Palestine if it was willing to live peacefully alongside Israel and if it was an aspiring liberal democracy. Just because I think an occupation by a free country is preferable to an occupation by an unfree regime such as Hamas, does not make me a Zionist or anything else. Besides, "Zionist" is not even an insult to many people; the only reason I take offence to the term is because (a) it is not true and (b) I'm fairly anti-religion in general, especially religious nationalism.

International law serves to protect human freedom.

In theory, yes. It doesn't always work out that way. For example, assassinating the entire North Korean regime would likely increase the freedom of North Koreans, while being a total violation of international law. But respecting international law and treating North Korea as a sovereign nation is tantamount to allowing North Koreans to be tortured in death camps (which they are). In other words, international law is only a good thing when your opponents respect civilised law.

Of course, I'm not defending everything Israel does. Undoubtedly it has done wrong by demolishing people's houses, denying them access to water and so on (who knows how much of this is truly necessary and how much they are abusing the excuse of security). But the bottom line is that the greater evil is ideology, and by supporting Palestine in its current form, you are supporting tyranny. If you are against the oppression of Palestinians, you should be generally supportive of states like Israel, and generally negative towards states like Gaza, Jordan and Egypt.

See you at Cambridge next year (grades permitting), I'll be just down the road from you too. The irony of you going to a famously communist college... MUN should be fun - who would you represent, Britain, Israel or the US?

Not Israel, because I'm not a great fan of Israel in absolute terms. Not the US, because I'm not American. I guess it would have to be Britain.

Anyway, if we do ever meet in person I'd be glad to debate liberal democracy :smile:

(edited 10 years ago)

Reply 41

felamaslen

Original post by crayz

I disagree the job of the head of state should be to lead.

That's your wish, but nevertheless the Queen of England does not (and should not) "lead" the UK in any meaningful political sense. Also, even if she did lead the country it would still not be a theocracy. Having an established church is something I don't agree with (the state should be fully secular in my opinion), but it doesn't make it a theocracy.

Reply 42

TheMoho

lol you watch press tv

lol

i am done

bye

Reply 43

Le Nombre

Original post by Zainabahlulbayt

Iran has no nuclear weapons to begin with. Iran actually allows a lot of inspection by external regulatory bodies just to prove this.

They are planning for the future, when they run out of oil, and are investing in renewable energy.

The question is, will the US, Israel, etc throw away all of their nuclear arsenal?(The US ironically dropped a nuclear bomb over hiroshima).

Iran passes initial UN test over nuclear weapons programme

Iran appeared to have passed a stiff international test on its suspected nuclear weapons programme yesterday when the United Nations nuclear watchdog said Tehran had supplied its inspectors with a "comprehensive" record of a project that goes back 20 years.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/nov/01/iran.unitednations

Before someone says Iran hates jews, please watch this.

<a rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow" href="http://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/nov/01/iran.unitednations" target="_blank"><font size="4"><strong>[video="youtube_share;R-r04SQ97_Q"]http://youtu.be/R-r04SQ97_Q[/video]

If Iran genuinely has no intention or goal of having nukes then they're staggeringly daft, as many of the Western countries with whom they have ongoing disagreements on a wide range of issues clearly do. Of all the countries in the world for whom, from their own persepective, having nukes would seem quite sensible Iran has to be up there.

Coountries have nukes just in case they got drawn into a survival of the nation conflict at some unspecified point in the future, for Iran this seems a greater possibility than for many other nations.

Reply 44

MarkAustinPowers

Original post by MatureStudent36

Israel will probably get rid of their undeclared Nuclear weapons when they see a time when they're neighbours stop invading them, and country's like Iran stopping funding terrorist attacks against the people of Israel and acknowledging their right to exist.

lol 'their invaders stop invading them' who invaded gaza? who invaded Lebanon and occupied it for 18 years? who has occupied the golan heights for the last thirty years? the only times 'the neighbours' invaded was 1973,

Reply 45

Zainabahlulbayt

Original post by MarkAustinPowers

Precisely.

Reply 46

Dr Alcoholic

Original post by Aj12

The actions of other countries are irrelevant. Were this a discussion about the US I imagine you would find it rather strange if those actions were justified on the basis that the Nazi's/ insert country here did worse things.

My point wasn't that the US did worse, my point was that Iran so far hasn't done anything wrong full stop, yet they are somehow portrayed as the big boogy man.

Reply 47

MatureStudent36

Original post by MarkAustinPowers

You do understand why the Golan heights are in Israeli hands don't you?

Reply 48

MarkAustinPowers

Original post by MatureStudent36

You do understand why the Golan heights are in Israeli hands don't you?

i think i do, its a so called 'buffer zone'

Reply 49

Aj12

Original post by Dr Alcoholic

My point wasn't that the US did worse, my point was that Iran so far hasn't done anything wrong full stop, yet they are somehow portrayed as the big boogy man.

Yet they have been acting in a very suspicious way that will be of concern to near by powers and any countries with an interest in the region. Iran should not been seen as some innocent party that is being randomly picked upon.

Reply 50

MatureStudent36

Original post by MarkAustinPowers

i think i do, its a so called 'buffer zone'

It's a strategically important piece of land that allows the Syrians to overlook Israel and fire/attack at will. That's what the Syrians used the Golan heights for in 1967 when they attacked Israel in the 6 day war. Syria attacked Israel through the Golan heights, the Israelis fought back beating the Syrians and decided the keep the land to make sure the Syrians didn't attack them from it again.

I'm no lover of the Red Sea pedestrians but their neighbours have. Habit of doing the most stupid things and then crying foul when they get their arses handed to them by the Israeli military.

Reply 51

EricTCartman

Israel has thousands of nukes, they're the real nuclear threat.Looked up project samson, if Israel feels threatened in any way they'll unleash their nukes around the world.They even talk about nuking Europe.Why does nobody do anything about Israel? because we're under a Jewish dictatorship by our zionist occupied governments who control the western world. They do not represent us.

Reply 52

MarkAustinPowers

Original post by erictcartman

israel has thousands of nukes, they're the real nuclear threat.looked up project samson, if israel feels threatened in any way they'll unleash their nukes around the world.they even talk about nuking europe.why does nobody do anything about israel? Because we're under a jewish dictatorship by our zionist occupied governments who control the western world. They do not represent us.