The Student Room Group

How well are you taught calculus?

As someone who has been self-learning A Level Maths and Further Maths entirely from the internet and from the official Edexcel textbooks, I've constantly been bashing my head against the wall with the shocking lack of emphasis placed by the syllabus on actually understanding calculus.

Although there are a few proofs for the various methods of differentiation, the syllabus, by and large, completely skips over many insights and proofs -- very few of which would require degree level maths to learn.
One such example is the fundamental theorem of calculus which links integrals as the sum of infinite rectangular strips representing the area under a curve with the process of antidifferentiation. Without it, you're left thinking that via some process of magic, finding an antiderivative of a function will tell you the area under a curve.

So, what I want to ask is, for those who are studying at school, are you taught any concepts and proofs for calculus that are outside the syllabus?

Edit: By not on the syllabus, I mean not covered in either the syllabus specification or in the official textbooks.
(edited 10 years ago)

Scroll to see replies

Reply 1
My teacher taught lots of stuff outside of the spec, including proofs for a lot of the calculus that weren't required.
Reply 2
I can do a few extra things like first principles, induction proofs and some work on the fundamental theorem of calculus, but these were largely self-taught, school couldn't give a damn about more maths
Reply 3
Original post by Robbie242
I can do a few extra things like first principles, induction proofs and some work on the fundamental theorem of calculus, but these were largely self-taught, school couldn't give a damn about more maths


Differentiation from first principles is covered in C1, isn't it? Likewise, proof by induction is in FP1.

I'm shocked that your school didn't even teach you the few parts that are actually on the syllabus.
Reply 4
Original post by Quivai
Differentiation from first principles is covered in C1, isn't it? Likewise, proof by induction is in FP1.

I'm shocked that your school didn't even teach you the few parts that are actually on the syllabus.


No, it is skimmed over in the C1 book, it is hardly taught at a large depth

Proof by induction in FP1 does not include working with derivatives and statements associated to these derivatives, it covers series, divisibility, recurrence relations and matrices.

These things aren't actually on the syllabus, they are merely extras
Reply 5
Are you sure? Although the C1 book does skip over proving the power rule, it seems to have a solid explanation for differentiation from first principles. There are around 5 pages devoted entirely to it.

(Just to clarify, but I'm referring to the Heinemann "Core Mathematics 1" book by Keith Pledger.)
(edited 10 years ago)
Reply 6
Original post by Quivai
Are you sure? Although the C1 book does skip over proving the power rule, it seems to have a solid explanation for differentiation from first principles. There are around 5 pages devoted entirely to it.


isn't that more to do with the differentiation you come across in C1 though, rather than more complex stuff such as trig and whatnot

by not on the syllabus I mean not actually tested in the exam
Reply 7
Original post by Robbie242
isn't that more to do with the differentiation you come across in C1 though, rather than more complex stuff such as trig and whatnot

by not on the syllabus I mean not actually tested in the exam


Ah, sorry. I should have specified what I meant by not on the syllabus. I mean not covered in the official textbooks from the examining board.

The general method is exactly the same whether you are differentiating x^n, or something more advanced like sin and cos. The only difference is that you just need to make use of more algebraic tricks.
Not very well.... My teacher confused herself
Original post by Quivai
As someone who has been self-learning A Level Maths and Further Maths entirely from the internet and from the official Edexcel textbooks, I've constantly been bashing my head against the wall with the shocking lack of emphasis placed by the syllabus on actually understanding calculus.

Although there are a few proofs for the various methods of differentiation, the syllabus, by and large, completely skips over many insights and proofs -- very few of which would require degree level maths to learn.
One such example is the fundamental theorem of calculus which links integrals as the sum of infinite rectangular strips representing the area under a curve with the process of antidifferentiation. Without it, you're left thinking that via some process of magic, finding an antiderivative of a function will tell you the area under a curve.

So, what I want to ask is, for those who are studying at school, are you taught any concepts and proofs for calculus that are outside the syllabus?

Edit: By not on the syllabus, I mean not covered in either the syllabus specification or in the official textbooks.



Proving the fundamental theorem of Calculus really isn't that easy and requires a a decent bit of analysis.

I learnt differentiation from first principles at school and it came up in my exam
Original post by Quivai
Differentiation from first principles is covered in C1, isn't it?


Not in all specifications. OCR, for example, says knowledge of first principles is not required.
Reply 11
Original post by Sabster
Proving the fundamental theorem of Calculus really isn't that easy and requires a a decent bit of analysis.

I learnt differentiation from first principles at school and it came up in my exam


All you need to know is the mean value theorem, the squeeze theorem, and how to manipulate integral notation (covered in C2 for Edexcel). All are definitely within the ability of an A Level student to learn.

Original post by Mr M
Not in all specifications. OCR, for example, says knowledge of first principles is not required.


It might say that, but does it show you anyway? If so, I'd consider it a part of the syllabus.
Original post by Quivai
It might say that, but does it show you anyway? If so, I'd consider it a part of the syllabus.


How do you mean "does it show you anyway"? The specification is just a list of topics that may be examined and this one is precluded. If it isn't examined few teachers will teach it. Assessment drives the curriculum.
Reply 13
Original post by Mr M
How do you mean "does it show you anyway"? The specification is just a list of topics that may be examined and this one is precluded. If it isn't examined few teachers will teach it. Assessment drives the curriculum.


In the official textbooks provided by OCR.
Original post by Quivai

Although there are a few proofs for the various methods of differentiation, the syllabus, by and large, completely skips over many insights and proofs -- very few of which would require degree level maths to learn.
One such example is the fundamental theorem of calculus which links integrals as the sum of infinite rectangular strips representing the area under a curve with the process of antidifferentiation. Without it, you're left thinking that via some process of magic, finding an antiderivative of a function will tell you the area under a curve.


Well, if you want it "properly" then no, you couldn't really skip 'degree level' stuff; i.e., content one gets in an Analysis course.

For the Fundamental theorem, it's proof (I'm going by the one on wiki as a reference - the first part) uses the mean value theorem for integrals, which is not a level spec. There's an easy way to see it's true (geometric reasoning), but that wouldn't be proper; a proof would (usually, there of course could be other proofs) use both the extreme value theorem and the intermediate value theorem. The EVT and IVT are 'obvious enough' to be taken for granted, but again, that wouldn't be proper. You see that this is beginning to go down a rabbit hole!

It's tricky to say in how much depth one should go for in an A level course. At the end of the day, most students will use calculus as a tool at most; generally, only those who pursue a maths degree will care about the details, and they certainly will get them. It's good to have some depth of understanding, but of course it should be noted that calculus was essentially reinvented in the 19th century to completely formalise its arguments. An A level student seeing calculus for the first time is likely to need some time to get used to the concepts how Newton/Leibniz thought of them, let alone Bolzano/Weierstrass/Cauchy/Riemann etc.!
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by Quivai
In the official textbooks provided by OCR.


Official textbook is an overstatement. There is an "approved" textbook from Cambridge University Press (who are in common ownership with OCR) and that includes it but many schools do not use this semi-official textbook. One good thing Michael Gove is doing is banning links between Awarding Bodies and publishers.
Reply 16
Original post by Mr M
Official textbook is an overstatement. There is an "approved" textbook from Cambridge University Press (who are in common ownership with OCR) and that includes it but many schools do not use this semi-official textbook. One good thing Michael Gove is doing is banning links between Awarding Bodies and publishers.


That sounds quite promising. But aren't Edexcel owned by Pearson the publishers now, so how is this going to work in practice - will Pearson have to give up publishing textbooks or setting exam papers?:
Reply 17
Original post by FireGarden
Well, if you want it "properly" then no, you couldn't really skip 'degree level' stuff; i.e., content one gets in an Analysis course.

For the Fundamental theorem, it's proof (I'm going by the one on wiki as a reference - the first part) uses the mean value theorem for integrals, which is not a level spec. There's an easy way to see it's true (geometric reasoning), but that wouldn't be proper; a proof would (usually, there of course could be other proofs) use both the extreme value theorem and the intermediate value theorem. The EVT and IVT are 'obvious enough' to be taken for granted, but again, that wouldn't be proper. You see that this is beginning to go down a rabbit hole!

It's tricky to say in how much depth one should go for in an A level course. At the end of the day, most students will use calculus as a tool at most; generally, only those who pursue a maths degree will care about the details, and they certainly will get them. It's good to have some depth of understanding, but of course it should be noted that calculus was essentially reinvented in the 19th century to completely formalise its arguments. An A level student seeing calculus for the first time is likely to need some time to get used to the concepts how Newton/Leibniz thought of them, let alone Bolzano/Weierstrass/Cauchy/Riemann etc.!


I agree that most students will have little use for doing a full on uni course on calculus, but the goal should be to have them understand the calculus they currently learn. All the minor details like the proof for the mean value theorem can be left for uni. It's intuitive enough that demonstrating the concept is enough to gain understanding and be able to use it to prove the fundamental theorem of calculus, which is not intuitive.

I'm not sure students really need much time to become comfortable with the concept of limits, differentiation from first principles, Riemann sums, Newton/Leibniz notation, etc. Going by my own experience, which was greatly hampered by having no teachers to ask questions of, 6 months should be enough time to learn all of calculus in the maths A Level, including proofs for things like the fundamental theorem of calculus.
I wasn't taught anything beyond the syllabus, so no proofs or derivations, so mainly following a standard set of rules and finishing it up with a bit of plug and chug to get the final answer.

I certainly won't hold it against my teacher, though. He was extremely helpful and an overall excellent maths teacher, but my school's priority was ensuring we all had good enough passes to get into our respective university courses. There simply wouldn't have been any interest from the students in learning the theory behind it.

And is this really a problem? Surely the "maths behind the maths" is best left for university maths degrees?
Reply 19
Original post by Quivai
I agree that most students will have little use for doing a full on uni course on calculus, but the goal should be to have them understand the calculus they currently learn. All the minor details like the proof for the mean value theorem can be left for uni. It's intuitive enough that demonstrating the concept is enough to gain understanding and be able to use it to prove the fundamental theorem of calculus, which is not intuitive.

I'm not sure students really need much time to become comfortable with the concept of limits, differentiation from first principles, Riemann sums, Newton/Leibniz notation, etc. Going by my own experience, which was greatly hampered by having no teachers to ask questions of, 6 months should be enough time to learn all of calculus in the maths A Level, including proofs for things like the fundamental theorem of calculus.


I think you're seriously overestimating the ability level of the "typical" A level student. There are people on TSR studying A level maths who cannot reliably add two fractions together or manipulate indices correctly,

A "good" teacher in my opinion should try to motivate the study of individual topics, e.g. this is how we define the gradient of a straight line, this is how we extend the definition to a point on a curve by considering chords in the vicinity of the point etc. But spending time trying to prove everything in sight is just going to bog down the course in unncessary formality and is best left to Uni where it can be done properly. There is a big difference between looking at something on a wiki page and saying "oh yes, that looks obvious" and understanding how to construct a proof properly, what statements can be inferred from others, what prerequisites are needed etc.

And don't forget that Newton, Leibniz, Euler etc did a fair amount with calculus without understanding the slightest thing about what they were doing!

Quick Reply

Latest