The Student Room Group
University of Oxford, Pawel-Sytniewski
University of Oxford
Oxford

Self fund at Oxford, or accept full-funding at lower-ranked uni?

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Reply 20
Original post by hobbit_
I very much agree with this, and I'm surprised no one else has raised the issue of the ability to attract funding. Oxford and Cambridge are fine yes; but in a sense they're also a bit "out there". They're not really mainstream universities with mainstream educational processes. Aber certainly is.
I dont know what this means. Oxbridge people do a lot of weird things like wearing fancy dress to eat dinner and calling their terms "Michaelmas" and "Hilary", but the PhD process is still the same as it is everywhere else.
(edited 9 years ago)
University of Oxford, Pawel-Sytniewski
University of Oxford
Oxford
Reply 21
Also this:

Oxford is happy to let you come if you can pay for it. As somebody else said, if you're not independently wealthy, it's a polite rejection.
is true everywhere. Its much easier to find a university willing to accept you than it is to obtain funding. If you are a strong student and able to self-fund, then it isnt too difficult to get accepted to a good PhD program. Getting funding is another matter entirely. This isnt an Oxbridge thing, its everywhere.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by Glitterhüf
I've been accepted into a DPhil course at Oxford, but as it's now the later half of April and I've not heard about funding I'm assuming I won't be offered any. I have recently been offered full funding with maintenance at a lower-ranking university, which has excellent research facilities for my field of study but it's quite isolated...literally at least 4 hours away from the nearest cities by public transport. Although I live in the UK I'm an international student so fees are high and access to funding is very limited. I've always dreamed of going to Oxford, and having an 'Oxon' attached to a credential seems professionally advantageous, but it seems foolish to turn down full funding and pay over 100K for a doctorate. I'm dreading the thought of turning down an offer to Oxford and living in the middle of nowhere for three years, but funding is funding. I wondered what other's would do in a similar situation? When it's all said and done how much does the institution matter when it comes to future career prospects?


Hi Glitterhuf,

If you need any help or advice regarding PG study in Aberystwyth just let me know and I'll be able to answer your questions (or point you to someone who will for sure).

Good luck with your decision and be in touch if you need any help :smile:

Best regards,
James
Would you absolutely have to live in Aber? Possibly you could arrange to live in a slightly larger town/city and just come to university every so often to see your supervisor etc. it may not be feasible as Aber is quite isolated, but may be worth thinking about; the problem though could be not getting to meet other postgrads, attend as many academic events etc.
Original post by gutenberg
Would you absolutely have to live in Aber? Possibly you could arrange to live in a slightly larger town/city and just come to university every so often to see your supervisor etc. it may not be feasible as Aber is quite isolated, but may be worth thinking about; the problem though could be not getting to meet other postgrads, attend as many academic events etc.


I would have to disagree with your point about "not getting to meet other postgrads". Aberystwyth has a strong and very active postgraduate community, especially within the International Politics Department (If memory serves me correct I believe this is what Gitterhuf is hoping to study).

In fact, although you say Aberystwyth is isolated, it's very nature of being on the edge means that the student and staff population are that much more active in both the curricular and non-curricular activities... besides Aberystwyth isn't THAT isolated - but compared to Oxford I would have to say it was - If in doubt I would suggest coming to visit and seeing it :smile:

James :smile:
Original post by Aber_James
I would have to disagree with your point about "not getting to meet other postgrads". Aberystwyth has a strong and very active postgraduate community, especially within the International Politics Department (If memory serves me correct I believe this is what Gitterhuf is hoping to study).

In fact, although you say Aberystwyth is isolated, it's very nature of being on the edge means that the student and staff population are that much more active in both the curricular and non-curricular activities... besides Aberystwyth isn't THAT isolated - but compared to Oxford I would have to say it was - If in doubt I would suggest coming to visit and seeing it :smile:

James :smile:


I think you misunderstood me. I was suggesting that perhaps the OP could live somewhere other than Aber, if they preferred to live in a larger town/city; it was in that context that I said they could miss out on some aspects of postgrad life if they were only visiting occasionally, as the opportunities would be fewer to meet & interact regularly with other postgrads. I believe as well that they said they were in the History department (although I'm not sure how Aber organizes its subjects across departments)?
I know at least one guy in your situation and he went for the money. He has since then worked at The University of Hong Kong as a lecturer and is now at University of Canberra.
Reply 27
I think it's also really rather important to remember that you won't suddenly become a superior academic by virtue of having the post-nominal (Oxon) after your name. You'll succeed if you're a good researcher, regardless of where you attained your doctorate.
Original post by Caedus
I think it's also really rather important to remember that you won't suddenly become a superior academic by virtue of having the post-nominal (Oxon) after your name. You'll succeed if you're a good researcher, regardless of where you attained your doctorate.


This is sadly false, the academic market is over-saturated to the point that the majority of able researchers are condemned to career repositioning. In this environment, institutional repute is of non-trivial purchase. Obviously institutional repute is not coextensive with, or indeed more important than, academic capability.
Original post by Glitterhüf
Nope, but I might be able to get a loan for the full amount. It's a massive amount of debt, but it is Oxford.


I'd go to the other place
Original post by Glitterhüf
I've been accepted into a DPhil course at Oxford, but as it's now the later half of April and I've not heard about funding I'm assuming I won't be offered any. I have recently been offered full funding with maintenance at a lower-ranking university, which has excellent research facilities for my field of study but it's quite isolated...literally at least 4 hours away from the nearest cities by public transport. Although I live in the UK I'm an international student so fees are high and access to funding is very limited. I've always dreamed of going to Oxford, and having an 'Oxon' attached to a credential seems professionally advantageous, but it seems foolish to turn down full funding and pay over 100K for a doctorate. I'm dreading the thought of turning down an offer to Oxford and living in the middle of nowhere for three years, but funding is funding. I wondered what other's would do in a similar situation? When it's all said and done how much does the institution matter when it comes to future career prospects?


If money is no object Oxon. Otherwise the other uni would be my choice.

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Original post by Glitterhüf
Good guess! It is Aberystwyth, and it would be in history...it seems so gutting to turn down an offer from Oxford, but I know lots of other people will be in a similar situation.


It is but some of us have had to do it due to preferences, practicality and money. Keep your acceptance letter. Some people are almost as impressed when they see it as if you'd actually gone there!

Good luck!

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Reply 32
Original post by gutenberg
Would you absolutely have to live in Aber? Possibly you could arrange to live in a slightly larger town/city and just come to university every so often to see your supervisor etc. it may not be feasible as Aber is quite isolated, but may be worth thinking about; the problem though could be not getting to meet other postgrads, attend as many academic events etc.


With a full-time PhD, quite a few universities have something in their terms, I know of at least two that only accept full-time students that live within 50 miles.

Original post by Aber_James
I would have to disagree with your point about "not getting to meet other postgrads". Aberystwyth has a strong and very active postgraduate community, especially within the International Politics Department (If memory serves me correct I believe this is what Gitterhuf is hoping to study).


Actually Glitterhüf wants to study History.

Glitterhüf, my personal experience is that you'll be better placed and looked after at the university that pays you to do the PhD. Though, universities generally treat their PhD well regardless of funding situation.

There are other considerations to take into account, particularly if you are seeking a career in academia (importance of these might depend on your 'target' country):

- reputation and track-record of supervisor (publications, funding received, ...)
- additional doctoral training offered (how to get published, how to get funding - yes, you'd still want to seek additional funding for research trips or conference attendance, ...)
- opportunities for teaching
Original post by hobbit_
You'll probably also find that doing your doctorate through a funded programme means you get much more tailored support and access to resources that otherwise you'd have to fend for yourself.

This would have been my response.
Original post by c2uk
With a full-time PhD, quite a few universities have something in their terms, I know of at least two that only accept full-time students that live within 50 miles.




That may be so but the key tie that will bind him to Aber is the library facilities. Aberystwyth, the town, has a copyright library.
Original post by hobbit_

You'll probably also find that doing your doctorate through a funded programme means you get much more tailored support and access to resources that otherwise you'd have to fend for yourself.


not true, or anyway not true in the arts and social sciences (it is perhaps true in the hard sciences, where funding often means a junior involvement in some particular and structured project for which larger external funding has been won by the department). But in History a student will be provided with exactly the same help and resources whether funded or self-funding, and it is likely that most of the academics he meets anyway won't know which he is.

To the limited (I think,non-existent) extent that this might make a difference, it could perhaps be argued that a student who is self-funding is the more the customer.
Reply 36
Original post by cambio wechsel
not true, or anyway not true in the arts and social sciences (it is perhaps true in the hard sciences, where funding often means a junior involvement in some particular and structured project for which larger external funding has been won by the department). But in History a student will be provided with exactly the same help and resources whether funded or self-funding, and it is likely that most of the academics he meets anyway won't know which he is.

To the limited (I think,non-existent) extent that this might make a difference, it could perhaps be argued that a student who is self-funding is the more the customer.


Actually, also not quite true.

1) Aber is part of the AHRC South, West and Wales Doctoral Training Partnership, and if the OP were to be a AHRC doctoral student, then he would also benefit from being able to easily access resources at the other partner institutions as well as the extra support through the partnership sets up.

2) funded studentships often have additional money available for training and development purposes or to attend conferences etc., £750 - £1,000 over 3 years is common I believe - this pot of money is seldom available to self-funded students.

3) they may be the customer, and universities have systems in place to deal with dissatisfied PhD students etc., but I've seen more often than not that supervisors simply don't have that much interest in self-funded students as they have in funded-students - though some of what I've seen may have to do with how much interest the supervisor has in the research project.

Not all universities are the same, and the OPs experience at Aber vs. Oxford might be very different.
Reply 37
I think the people trying to convince the OP that Aber is in the same league as Oxford when it comes to either facilities or career prospects are being a bit silly, that obviosuly isnt true

There is no doubt that being at Oxford for your PhD is better than being at Aber, the question is whether the difference is worth £100k. The answer is almost certainly 'no', particularly because you are in a field where it isnt likely that you will get a high-paying job with eithe optionr. Carrying a £100k debt with lets say £10k a year capital+interest repayments would be absolutely crippling, especially given that your best case career outcome is some povertyline £40k/year academic job which would barely be enough to support a family anyway, even before having to spend 30-50% of your post tax salary on loan repayments for the next 10 years. Thats the sort of decision that without exaggeration is genuinely likely to ruin your life, and you would be crazy to do it imo.

I also dont understand how you expect to find a bank willing to lend you £100k for a humanities PhD given that the most likely outcome is bankrupty before you turn 35.
(edited 9 years ago)
Reply 38
Original post by nulli tertius
That may be so but the key tie that will bind him to Aber is the library facilities. Aberystwyth, the town, has a copyright library.


If he needs that for his research, then probably yes, of not then I don't see how that will tie him to Aber as a place.

Anyway, as I said, the university would probably not allow him to live further away than 50 miles anyway, and there isn't much within 50 miles of Aber, not even Swansea or Bangor is within that radius.
Original post by c2uk

Anyway, as I said, the university would probably not allow him to live further away than 50 miles anyway, and there isn't much within 50 miles of Aber, not even Swansea or Bangor is within that radius.


You cannot make the assumption that there is a 50 mile limit. You cannot assume there is a limit at all and you can't assume the extent of that limit if there is one. For some universities this is a very big thing. For others it is a complete irrelevance. There are people doing PhDs at British universities who live abroad and fly in for supervisions.

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