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University of Oxford, Pawel-Sytniewski
University of Oxford
Oxford

Self fund at Oxford, or accept full-funding at lower-ranked uni?

I've been accepted into a DPhil course at Oxford, but as it's now the later half of April and I've not heard about funding I'm assuming I won't be offered any. I have recently been offered full funding with maintenance at a lower-ranking university, which has excellent research facilities for my field of study but it's quite isolated...literally at least 4 hours away from the nearest cities by public transport. Although I live in the UK I'm an international student so fees are high and access to funding is very limited. I've always dreamed of going to Oxford, and having an 'Oxon' attached to a credential seems professionally advantageous, but it seems foolish to turn down full funding and pay over 100K for a doctorate. I'm dreading the thought of turning down an offer to Oxford and living in the middle of nowhere for three years, but funding is funding. I wondered what other's would do in a similar situation? When it's all said and done how much does the institution matter when it comes to future career prospects?

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Reply 1
I would go where the funding takes you. Living in the middle of nowhere may not be appealing but if the alternative is trying to survive for four years without any money...
University of Oxford, Pawel-Sytniewski
University of Oxford
Oxford
Do you have wealthy family willing to pay?
I agree with BJack: go where the money is. Otherwise you'll constantly be worrying about money :frown:
Original post by Glitterhüf
I've been accepted into a DPhil course at Oxford, but as it's now the later half of April and I've not heard about funding I'm assuming I won't be offered any. I have recently been offered full funding with maintenance at a lower-ranking university, which has excellent research facilities for my field of study but it's quite isolated...literally at least 4 hours away from the nearest cities by public transport. Although I live in the UK I'm an international student so fees are high and access to funding is very limited. I've always dreamed of going to Oxford, and having an 'Oxon' attached to a credential seems professionally advantageous, but it seems foolish to turn down full funding and pay over 100K for a doctorate. I'm dreading the thought of turning down an offer to Oxford and living in the middle of nowhere for three years, but funding is funding. I wondered what other's would do in a similar situation? When it's all said and done how much does the institution matter when it comes to future career prospects?


From your description, I assume Aberystwyth. Aber plays in the big league in politics and international relations. You will come to no harm with an Aber doctorate in any of those.
Original post by Glitterhüf
I've been accepted into a DPhil course at Oxford, but as it's now the later half of April and I've not heard about funding I'm assuming I won't be offered any. I have recently been offered full funding with maintenance at a lower-ranking university, which has excellent research facilities for my field of study but it's quite isolated...literally at least 4 hours away from the nearest cities by public transport. Although I live in the UK I'm an international student so fees are high and access to funding is very limited. I've always dreamed of going to Oxford, and having an 'Oxon' attached to a credential seems professionally advantageous, but it seems foolish to turn down full funding and pay over 100K for a doctorate. I'm dreading the thought of turning down an offer to Oxford and living in the middle of nowhere for three years, but funding is funding. I wondered what other's would do in a similar situation? When it's all said and done how much does the institution matter when it comes to future career prospects?


That's a tough one. Though for me I suppose it would depend on - 1. what is the other university, a good one? and 2. is the course worth 100k more than the other one (100k is a fair bit to spend on a doctorate)?
Reply 6
Entirely depends on your personal circumstances. If you will risk having to drop out of Oxford mid-course due to money issues then its not worth it. If you're a billionaire, then it doesn't matter. Depends on you.
Reply 7
Original post by nulli tertius
From your description, I assume Aberystwyth. Aber plays in the big league in politics and international relations. You will come to no harm with an Aber doctorate in any of those.


Good guess! It is Aberystwyth, and it would be in history...it seems so gutting to turn down an offer from Oxford, but I know lots of other people will be in a similar situation.
Reply 8
Original post by Donald Duck
Do you have wealthy family willing to pay?


Nope, but I might be able to get a loan for the full amount. It's a massive amount of debt, but it is Oxford.
I can see why it would be gutting to turn down Oxford but saving yourself the £100k is probably more life changing than going to Oxford, especially if you already hold such a generous offer from another university anyway :smile:
Original post by Glitterhüf
Nope, but I might be able to get a loan for the full amount. It's a massive amount of debt, but it is Oxford.


What are your plans for after the PhD? Are you planning (hoping) to go into academia? Graduating with 100k of debt in an incredibly difficult job market might negate any advantage you're imagining the Oxford 'brand' might give you - having a massive debt to service might mean you cannot afford to take the piecemeal academic work that seems to be the norm now for at least several years after the doctorate, and not being able to do that will make it unlikely that you will get a permanent academic post.

If you are hoping for an alternative career, will the average earnings adequately cover the debt? And, is it in any way worth spending that money just for the experience of being at Oxford?

Personally, I wouldn't hesitate to choose Aber; but I do understand the location issue and I think you are right to think about whether or not you will be happy spending a big chunk of your life there. A PhD is hard work and mentally fairly gruelling, having a satisfying personal life can be really important and being unhappy with where you live might adversely affect your ability to cope with the PhD.
I am at a similar situation. It depends on your country of origin (have you looked for scholarships there?) but even if you manage to get a loan, it is not worthy to start your work life with such high debts. I assume that in Oxford you will pay around 16,000 yearly for three (perhaps four) years plus personal expenses. So it can be (assuming you study four years) way more than 100,000, depending on the loan interest. Now, ask yourself: as an international student, what are your plans? Are you staying to work in the UK? Will you return to your country? How much will you earn? How many years do you need to work in order to pay those 100,000 (keep in mind this especially if your country of origin’s currency does poorly against the sterling pound and you return to work there)? With that being said, I do not think it is worthy to start your life with such money burden and I would choose the full-funding university. You are a good student in order to get an offer at Oxford, and a full-funding offer at Aberystwyth.

Now, for a research-oriented degree you need to look closely for your thesis advisor and your particular field of study rather than just a big name. It can happen that in your particular field of study you have better academic advice at Aberystwyth.

As for the isolated place I have a similar experience and I absolutely loved it (I came from a big, crowded city). It depends more on you character, but in those cases, the community tends to be tight and you may have closer ties with them.
Reply 12
If funding is hard to come by it seems you've got a very good deal with the full funding offer - I'd go with this. Might be worth actually inquiring instead of just assuming there's no funding at Oxford though - won't hurt to ask. :smile:

Sure, Oxford would look great but will it look so great when there's a 100k debt next to it? If the university has excellent research facilities I doubt the ranking will actually matter at all when it comes down to your work.
In any of the fields where a PhD has financial value, not being funded is a polite rejection. I would suggest taking the funding, unless you are independently wealthy.
u have to think of oxfords prestige which will outdo this other uni. in the short run u will be in debt but long run everything will be fine
Reply 15
I believe the name of the university is not terribly important when dealing with post-graduate degrees and doctorates. In your situation: I would self fund an undergraduate degree, but not a doctorate.
(edited 9 years ago)
I would absolutely follow the money! It is true that Oxford carries a level of prestige that few universities are able to match, but when it comes to academic work, if your institution is of a good caliber (which Aberystwyth certainly is) you'll be able to produce good work and will be well-regarded. Do not underestimate the personal prestige and connections of your supervisors, either! Not all the experts on everything are at Oxford.

I don't think over £100000 in debt is worth Oxford's reputation. Aberystwyth wants you enough that they're willing to pay for it. Oxford is happy to let you come if you can pay for it. As somebody else said, if you're not independently wealthy, it's a polite rejection.

I get that Oxford is known worldwide and Aberystwyth isn't, but particularly if you want an academic career Oxford's name alone is not worth it. Postgraduate research fellowships and later faculty postings are often more concerned with your research, and with the funding you can attract. For example, take this listing from Exeter for a lecturing position. They want 'a strong record in attracting research funding, or demonstrable potential to attract such funding'. You'll have that at Aberystwyth, not at Oxford. If Aberystwyth is doing good work in your field, historians at other universities will know and will recognise your qualification and achievement.

I am an international student too so I understand the difficulty of finding funding. You got the funding: take it!

P.S. On the other hand, while you're out of the big competitions like Ertegun and Clarendon, it might be worth waiting to see if you have any chances at college funding, for example. Some of those are not announced until the summer! Don't self-fund, but think carefully about turning down the offer.
End of the day you're doing it for a good career, because good careers pay good money, right?
Oxford is just a university, good yes, worth paying 100k for? no.
Are you really willing to pay 100k for prestige and bragging rights?
Go with the money, it's a huge amount of money and it is highly doubtful that the added extra of the oxford name will increase your earning potential substantially at post grad level.
Original post by Historiadora
I would absolutely follow the money! It is true that Oxford carries a level of prestige that few universities are able to match, but when it comes to academic work, if your institution is of a good caliber (which Aberystwyth certainly is) you'll be able to produce good work and will be well-regarded. Do not underestimate the personal prestige and connections of your supervisors, either! Not all the experts on everything are at Oxford.

I don't think over £100000 in debt is worth Oxford's reputation. Aberystwyth wants you enough that they're willing to pay for it. Oxford is happy to let you come if you can pay for it. As somebody else said, if you're not independently wealthy, it's a polite rejection.

I get that Oxford is known worldwide and Aberystwyth isn't, but particularly if you want an academic career Oxford's name alone is not worth it. Postgraduate research fellowships and later faculty postings are often more concerned with your research, and with the funding you can attract. For example, take this listing from Exeter for a lecturing position. They want 'a strong record in attracting research funding, or demonstrable potential to attract such funding'. You'll have that at Aberystwyth, not at Oxford. If Aberystwyth is doing good work in your field, historians at other universities will know and will recognise your qualification and achievement.

I am an international student too so I understand the difficulty of finding funding. You got the funding: take it!

P.S. On the other hand, while you're out of the big competitions like Ertegun and Clarendon, it might be worth waiting to see if you have any chances at college funding, for example. Some of those are not announced until the summer! Don't self-fund, but think carefully about turning down the offer.


I very much agree with this, and I'm surprised no one else has raised the issue of the ability to attract funding. Oxford and Cambridge are fine yes; but in a sense they're also a bit "out there". They're not really mainstream universities with mainstream educational processes. Aber certainly is.

You'll probably also find that doing your doctorate through a funded programme means you get much more tailored support and access to resources that otherwise you'd have to fend for yourself.

Yes Aber is far from other places; but you will have the money at least to think of traveling to Birmingham once in a while: it would be a long day-trip, but it's worth thinking about.

And when it comes to references, it's much more worthwhile to have a supervisor who is really into you and gets you and your work, and who may well have had a hand in offering you the internal money.

Go for Aber. Then think about the practical stuff of getting to Birmingham when you can.

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