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Northern Ireland Should Have The Right To Decide Its Own Taxs

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What Should Happen?

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(edited 7 years ago)

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Original post by revron77
QFA

In my opinion no, NI is already heavily subsidised, the chances are it would lower taxes, creating an even bigger burden on England (SE, NE & London specifically, the only regions that aren't heavily subsidised.)
(edited 9 years ago)
Why not? Let all the regions of the UK have more power over this sort of thing, like they do in the US, Germany, Spain, et cetera. Not to say take all tax raising powers from Westminster, but certainly some. At the very least it would encourage a bit more fiscal responsibility in local governments.

Without a doubt it is more democratic. If the Northern Irish wanted different taxes to the rest of the UK, why should the rest of us be able to gang up on them and stop it? As long as the amount of money they receive from central government is unchanged, not really our business.
Original post by Rinsed
Why not? Let all the regions of the UK have more power over this sort of thing, like they do in the US, Germany, Spain, et cetera. Not to say take all tax raising powers from Westminster, but certainly some. At the very least it would encourage a bit more fiscal responsibility in local governments.

Without a doubt it is more democratic. If the Northern Irish wanted different taxes to the rest of the UK, why should the rest of us be able to gang up on them and stop it? As long as the amount of money they receive from central government is unchanged, not really our business.


What happens if they drop taxes to almost zero? Where are we going to find the £18 odd billion annually from?
Original post by revron77
Not implying we get more money from England (Already replied to that point) but where does England get its money from? Usually from banks and debt collectors. England's government is run on IOUs.

Least allow N.I to decide its own future away from an economy dependent on debt.

If NI was to get the right to set their own taxes, all payments to NI by rUK would almost immediately stop. The fact that NI can only currently raise 60% of it's own expenditure in taxes shows that this idea would be disastrous for NI.
(edited 9 years ago)
Reply 5
Original post by revron77
Northern Ireland Should Have The Right To Decide Its Own Taxs



There is nothing more important in how a state operates than how it set it's taxation. Taxes can dictate the course of economies, affect those in poverty and have a large impact on unemployment statistics.

With taxes being so important in how it affects people, then why should the citizens of Northern Ireland be deprived of the right to dictate taxes? Why should British MP's get to decide the outcome of Northern Ireland's economy when we lack so much representation in parliament?

The Republic of Ireland has set its taxes to competitive rates. Due to this, it drives business out of Northern Ireland's economy and doesn't do good for our unemployment statistics. Including that, parliaments extortionate fuel taxs drive away yet more potential business as freight costs for the manufacturing sector makes the nation unproductive.

England should not hold NI ransom because it can't face internal competition on taxes. The UK should be supporting the free market by granting economic independence to all nations and let the free market guide NI into economic prosperity.

Now away from my rant. I'd really love to hear peoples thoughts here on granting all nation states within the UK the right to set taxes. Think its a good idea? Provide your thoughts!


While NI would not be the first or only place i'd grant greater freedom (that should go to the capital counties and core 8 counties plus Glasgow) i'd be generally supportive of giving them control over income and corporation taxes. While i'm not comfortable with NI having control over the likes of justice, education and health i do believe that tax and spending should be as devolved as possible.

Original post by Cryptographic

In my opinion no, NI is already heavily subsidised, the chances are it would lower taxes, creating an even bigger burden on England (SE, NE & London specifically, the only regions that aren't heavily subsidised.)

Scotland matches the UK average as well even without oil taken into account, with oil and gas it runs at 120% the UK average.
Original post by Rakas21

Scotland matches the UK average as well even without oil taken into account, with oil and gas it runs at 120% the UK average.


Since before 2000, there has only been one year where Scotland has produced a surplus in £. [Citation coming]
Reply 7
Original post by Cryptographic
Since before 2000, there has only been one year where Scotland has produced a surplus in £. [Citation coming]


The last year the UK recorded a surplus was 01 anyway, in percentage terms its in line with the UK (you chart above actually shows that). When you include oil and gas revenue though it runs at a surplus relative to the UK (not absolutely because the UK obviously runs deficits).
[QUOTE="revron77;47272453"]
Original post by Cryptographic

Set a quota then on how much funding we get. If we don't have the money, we cut services in replacement for our more competitive tax.

At the end of the day, Englands tax policy has made us a burden. We can't flourish under the grip of parliaments rule and as a result, we are on the tit of the tax payer as a result.


Nice idea but you only have to have a look over here in Scotland to see the grief whoring that things like that create. If it fails you blame somebody else.
Original post by Rakas21




Scotland matches the UK average as well even without oil taken into account, with oil and gas it runs at 120% the UK average.


Have you factored in the high standard of public sector jobs in Scotland?
Original post by MatureStudent36
Have you factored in the high standard of public sector jobs in Scotland?


Yes. Expenditure is still lower than the additional revenue even if higher than the UK average.

Granted an independent Scotland would have to spend some of that extra money on certain institutions that Westminster pays for now.
Reply 11
>Give Wales, NI and England their own Parliaments
>Destroy GLA
>Dismantle the Unitary system
>Become a confederation
>???
>success
Original post by Cryptographic
What happens if they drop taxes to almost zero? Where are we going to find the £18 odd billion annually from?


Well, that's the entire fiscal responsibility thing. The idea that we should dictate everything from Westminster because those silly provincials can't be trusted to run themselves properly is at best slightly patronising.

Although I'm not sure I understand the premise of your argument. To clarify, I only support the idea of regions having limited powers over taxation insofar as they are directly linked to local government spending and service provision in that same region. That is, the idea that if they lower taxes to below the rest of the UK, they lose out in other ways. I do not support the idea that NI could just unilaterally decide it wants to pay less tax this year with no repercussions.
Original post by Rinsed
Well, that's the entire fiscal responsibility thing. The idea that we should dictate everything from Westminster because those silly provincials can't be trusted to run themselves properly is at best slightly patronising.

Although I'm not sure I understand the premise of your argument. To clarify, I only support the idea of regions having limited powers over taxation insofar as they are directly linked to local government spending and service provision in that same region. That is, the idea that if they lower taxes to below the rest of the UK, they lose out in other ways. I do not support the idea that NI could just unilaterally decide it wants to pay less tax this year with no repercussions.


NI currently runs at a £7.2bn deficit annually. I think that it should have the responsibility to decide some taxes, however under a provision the the UK parliament could veto it. I however think that a federal UK should be created. The one problem with that is that London will be mega rich. SE quite rich. Scotland, East and East midlands average and everyone else scrabbling to stay anywhere near afloat.
Original post by Cryptographic
NI currently runs at a £7.2bn deficit annually. I think that it should have the responsibility to decide some taxes, however under a provision the the UK parliament could veto it. I however think that a federal UK should be created. The one problem with that is that London will be mega rich. SE quite rich. Scotland, East and East midlands average and everyone else scrabbling to stay anywhere near afloat.


And here in lies the problem. In its current format we're all in it together.

however, I will acknowledge that NI has a problem competing with Eire with its low tax regime. But tax is only one aspect. Labour productivity is mother issue.
Original post by Cryptographic
NI currently runs at a £7.2bn deficit annually. I think that it should have the responsibility to decide some taxes, however under a provision the the UK parliament could veto it. I however think that a federal UK should be created. The one problem with that is that London will be mega rich. SE quite rich. Scotland, East and East midlands average and everyone else scrabbling to stay anywhere near afloat.


There would inevitably be some redistribution in a federal system though. In the same way that we have the Barnett formula at present. As you say, giving NI complete fiscal autonomy would be a disaster. But there's no problem with regions being allowed to have some influence on their levels of tax and spending, as long as the two are coupled. A similar system is being planned for Scotland in the event that they vote no, and I'd be happy to see that logic being extended.
Reply 16
Original post by revron77
With taxes being so important in how it affects people, then why should the citizens of Northern Ireland be deprived of the right to dictate taxes?


You can't be a citizen of Northern Ireland. It's not a state.

Anyway, I don't care if there are some devolved and central taxes. Most countries have that, including the UK. Ideally a unit of government should be raising around what it spends.

Why should British MP's get to decide the outcome of Northern Ireland's economy when we lack so much representation in parliament?


Because British MPs decide the laws for Britain. Fairly straightforward, yeah? And that includes Northern Ireland, which is an integral part of the United Kingdom.

You have the same representation in Parliament as anyone else. That's called 'democracy'.

England should not hold NI ransom because it can't face internal competition on taxes. The UK should be supporting the free market by granting economic independence to all nations and let the free market guide NI into economic prosperity.


That doesn't actually mean anything.
Yes. It should also have its public spending cut to the level of those taxes.
only to the same extent as scotland, not fully; if it is conferred a benefit from the money of westminster, then it must abide by its source; it can't get the benefit of one and then get the right to charge more taxes on its own land; that would be double taxation both from its own people and from the people of the rest of the UK
Not while they still run a buget deficit (relative to the UK).

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