The Student Room Group

Integration

Does anyone still consider the region of the integrand between the definite limits, post C2?

I still but I think most people don't as it isn't really assessed past that point.
To be honest, I have no clue what you're asking..
Reply 2
Do you mean finding areas and stuff? That's both C2 and C4
Original post by keromedic
Does anyone still consider the region of the integrand between the definite limits, post C2?

I still but I think most people don't as it isn't really assessed past that point.


Integration with definite limits isn't just used in pure maths. It comes up a lot in S2, and I've used it in M2 a few times :yep:
Original post by Robbie242
Do you mean finding areas and stuff? That's both C2 and C4


Original post by Solivagant
Integration with definite limits isn't just used in pure maths. It comes up a lot in S2, and I've used it in M2 a few times :yep:


Original post by FireGarden
To be honest, I have no clue what you're asking..

Sorry guys. I explained myself poorly. I do mean in the context of finding areas. Checking to see whether the curve crosses the axis in the interval.
Original post by keromedic
Sorry guys. I explained myself poorly. I do mean in the context of finding areas. Checking to see whether the curve crosses the axis in the interval.


Okay, I might just be tired, but I'm still not sure what you're talking about. I'll leave it to someone else :tongue:
Reply 6
Original post by keromedic
Sorry guys. I explained myself poorly. I do mean in the context of finding areas. Checking to see whether the curve crosses the axis in the interval.


It's a C2 topic so no, in C4 the only way it is expanded on is by giving us harder expressions to evaluate (exponentials, logs, trig etc). Though volume is definitely post C2.
Original post by keromedic
Sorry guys. I explained myself poorly. I do mean in the context of finding areas. Checking to see whether the curve crosses the axis in the interval.


Oh right. Well, I sure hope they do. If anyone ever writes 111x2 dx=2\displaystyle\int_{-1}^{1}\dfrac{1}{x^2}\ dx = -2, I will weep.
Reply 8
Original post by FireGarden
Oh right. Well, I sure hope they do. If anyone ever writes 111x2 dx=2\displaystyle\int_{-1}^{1}\dfrac{1}{x^2}\ dx = -2, I will weep.


I imagine writing that caused you to weep a bit
Original post by FireGarden
Oh right. Well, I sure hope they do. If anyone ever writes 111x2 dx=2\displaystyle\int_{-1}^{1}\dfrac{1}{x^2}\ dx = -2, I will weep.

That's kind of what I mean. I feel people forget to test for convergence as well as consider crossings (if shaded area) post C2.
Original post by FireGarden
Oh right. Well, I sure hope they do. If anyone ever writes 111x2 dx=2\displaystyle\int_{-1}^{1}\dfrac{1}{x^2}\ dx = -2, I will weep.


Well how would you write that?
New question.

What happens if you integrate across a discontinuity, in general, as opposed to breaking it up?
For example

0e1xdx\displaystyle \int_0^e \dfrac{1}{x}dx. The obvious discontinuity occurs at 0. I tried consulting google but the responses were varied. I'll check again tomorrow but hopefully someone might help. (Edit: not the best example)

Also, if your limits don't fit into the anti derivative of the integrand because of the anti derivative's domain (like lnx for 1/x), can you use facts (like its symmetry) to evaluate the integral?
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by Robbie242
I imagine writing that caused you to weep a bit


It's easier to keep your cool when you know you're writing something wrong to demonstrate something.. that's not to say you don't feel any pain, though :wink:.

Original post by keromedic
That's kind of what I mean. I feel people forget to test for convergence as well as consider crossings (if shaded area) post C2.


I didn't think people did improper integrals at A level, let a lone tests for convergence! All the same, a good understanding of calculus involves knowing when your tools are appropriate, and being a good mathematician in general is checking your work makes sense! I feel they should be throwing these sorts of things into the papers! :tongue:
Original post by FireGarden


I didn't think people did improper integrals at A level, let a lone tests for convergence! All the same, a good understanding of calculus involves knowing when your tools are appropriate, and being a good mathematician in general is checking your work makes sense! I feel they should be throwing these sorts of things into the papers! :tongue:

It is possible I'm misremembering the syllabus. It is a shade after midnight :tongue:
Reply 14
Original post by keromedic
It is possible I'm misremembering the syllabus. It is a shade after midnight :tongue:


It is definitely possible, we never get asked this in A-level maths :lol:
Original post by Solivagant
Well how would you write that?


I would write "The integral doesn't exist".

Original post by keromedic
New question.

What happens if you integrate across a discontinuity, in general, as opposed to breaking it up?
For example

0e1xdx\displaystyle \int_0^e \dfrac{1}{x}dx. The obvious discontinuity occurs at 0. I tried consulting google but the responses were varied. I'll check again tomorrow but hopefully someone might help.

Also, if your limits don't fit into the anti derivative of the integrand because of the anti derivative's domain (like lnx for 1/x), can you use facts (like its symmetry) to evaluate the integral?


Well, rather advanced stuff, but integration doesn't really care too much about discontinuities themselves. The issue they bring is that sometimes they cause the integral to diverge (like my example above), but otherwise, one can simply "leave out" the points that cause trouble. Secondly, yeah I think so.. I'm certainly no pro at integration, and I don't have an example to hand.. (have you ever looked at The Proof is Trivial? There's TSR's integration talent! you'll probably find some examples in there).
Original post by FireGarden

Well, rather advanced stuff, but integration doesn't really care too much about discontinuities themselves. The issue they bring is that sometimes they cause the integral to diverge (like my example above), but otherwise, one can simply "leave out" the points that cause trouble. Secondly, yeah I think so.. I'm certainly no pro at integration, and I don't have an example to hand.. (have you ever looked at The Proof is Trivial? There's TSR's integration talent! you'll probably find some examples in there).

Ah yes. I have solved problems on there before (not fast enough) and sometimes, when I'm bored, I'll pick out a few * and ** problems but I usually get scared away by the strange looking symbols :tongue:.

Thanks for the reply :h:.
(edited 10 years ago)

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