Why do some many Liverpool fans think they're a morally superior club?
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Original post by Zürich
I think Liverpool fans see their club as having more of a soul or in borderline religious terms because of Hillsborough.
Whereas Arsenal fans just tend to think that the club has and continues to conduct itself by the highest standards. And by and large I think we're right, SAF in his autobiography said something along the lines of ''They do things properly down at Arsenal''. Wouldn't call it a sense of moral superiority so much as a sense of class distinction. Can understand that this gets on peoples nerves.
Original post by Fizzel
Yeah, I think so its a bit like the Barca more than a club line. Scouse not English, Hillsborough obviously adds to the club being about being a community thing rather than a football thing.
Yeah, the 'classy Arsenal' thing. But class is based on the proper way to conduct yourself which links back to morality and character, with ideas of the right and wrong way to go about things, which is usually an Arsenal thing. It wasn't a disagreement, Arsenal is certainly a club with a proud history.
Yeah, the 'classy Arsenal' thing. But class is based on the proper way to conduct yourself which links back to morality and character, with ideas of the right and wrong way to go about things, which is usually an Arsenal thing. It wasn't a disagreement, Arsenal is certainly a club with a proud history.
I would say Utd and Arsenal are probably quite similar in how they view themselves tbh.
Original post by FindingForever
Sorry, I must have quoted you before you edited it.
I think you're gravely underestimating how upset people get over 9/11, even here. There are numerous documentaries played in the days surrounding it. As I've explained though the media focus has more to do with the recent evidence that has come to light about foul play, and of course it being a significant anniversary. There was less spotlight 7 years ago, for instance.
Also, I don't think the developments in the case necessarily happen during the time of the disaster, may have just been a coincidence. I just think more newspapers run with a story regarding its progress given the time or year.
I think you're gravely underestimating how upset people get over 9/11, even here. There are numerous documentaries played in the days surrounding it. As I've explained though the media focus has more to do with the recent evidence that has come to light about foul play, and of course it being a significant anniversary. There was less spotlight 7 years ago, for instance.
Also, I don't think the developments in the case necessarily happen during the time of the disaster, may have just been a coincidence. I just think more newspapers run with a story regarding its progress given the time or year.
Documentaries and real-time news are two very different things.
Yep totally agreed...there's more spotlight now because of the recent discoveries, but does not mean that people have to go overboard with the issue..fair enough to the families and those involved, but the rest of them (and by that i mean liverpool fans...you don't hear other fans banging on about it(at least I don't)...again..not everyone of course).
(on your last point) Maybe...but I generally follow the news everyday..and I've never (maybe once) heard evidence come to light that is away from the time of the disaster.
Aside from that though...there are a lot of liv fans who do think they're awesome and all that...
like they will start banging on about Arsenal not winning trophies for 9 years, but then if you tell them that they haven't won anything, they talk about the past...so basically a bunch of hypocrites that can hurl abuse all day long to other clubs, but then can't take a little hit at their club!
But most real people i've met/know who are liverpool fans are actually decent people.
The one thing that does really get on my nerves though (like Mourinho), are the Liverpool pundits!! Really, really hate them...and it's maybe because of the passionate hate I have towards them, that I never really liked Liverpool.
Original post by Zürich
I would say Utd and Arsenal are probably quite similar in how they view themselves tbh.
Original post by Siman89
Same. Would be hilarious if Gerrard's slip means he never wins a title. The only reason he didn't join Chelsea is because he got death threats, not because of loyalty.
Exactly. He only never went to Chelsea because he was going to get kneecapped and his family were threatened. Not exactly the most model pro either...videos on the Internet of him being involved in bar fights.
Some of the tackles he gets away with pisses me off too, the sort of stuff your average midfielder would get carded or even sent off for. Don't get me wrong he's been a great player over the years but he is overrated as well. I'd rate Scholes in his prime as better than Gerrard, and it was criminal how he was shoved out to the left by Eriksson in the England squad to accommodate both Gerrard and Lampard.
Original post by NDGAARONDI
Chelsea supporter here. I expect six champions leagues in the next 20 years.
Hopefully Abramovich doesn't get bored of his play thing then. If he does, Chelsea might just revert to the averaged size club with an average fanbase which they were.
Original post by Kieran-SAFC
Exactly. He only never went to Chelsea because he was going to get kneecapped and his family were threatened. Not exactly the most model pro either...videos on the Internet of him being involved in bar fights.
From what I remember, he's been in one bar fight (which was on CCTV) and made one punch in self defence - he was later declared innocent by a court and jury.
I admit it is possible that the threats and outrage from fans contributed to Gerrard staying but this is experienced by all key players when they plan on leaving a club - at the same time, Rooney was getting abuse for leaving his childhood club Everton. The reported reason for Gerrard staying were the result of the club's hesitancy to offer him a new contract and he pressured them by putting a transfer request in. Also his father convinced him to stay as well.
People use the former argument for him staying because they don't like the praise he gets even though that argument is less likely to be true.
Original post by Kieran-SAFC
Hopefully Abramovich doesn't get bored of his play thing then. If he does, Chelsea might just revert to the averaged size club with an average fanbase which they were.
It was a joke following a previous comment.
Original post by FindingForever
The irony being that you're probably the type of person who started calling scouser's "racist" a couple of seasons ago.
Bitter individual.
Bitter individual.
I probably did call some scousers racist, probably because some of them were being racist. It wasn't because they were scousers, it was because they were racist.
I'm not bitter I just don't like idiots with stupid accents who think they are the best thing since sliced bread, just so happens that a very large proportion of scousers tend to fall into that category.
I have no real love for Liverpool but I find it a bit weird how so many fans of other clubs have some big thing about Liverpool always wanting to claim they think they are morally superior or victims or whatever.
I guess there's possibly a generational thing, where most of the type of fans you get on websites like this student site are from an era where they don't remember seeing Liverpool win league titles, whereas the media at large and the pundits are brought up (or played in, in the case of the pundits) an era when Liverpool were dominant not only in England but in Europe. So maybe the younger generation can't understand why Liverpool is regarded as such a big club.
I think there are some good things about Liverpool as a club, it has a tight sense of unity and community amongst the fans, and I generally find when you read Liverpool fans discussing footballing issues they are quite well informed and not the type to make rash judgements or decisions.
Sometimes it grates when they overplay the whole "us against the world" thing: I think Dalglish was one for this with his prickly defensive attitude to everybody outside Liverpool. But I also like to look at the positives of Liverpool, there is a concept of the "Liverpool Way" which is about doing things with manners and class and not behaving like an arrogant superstar, I remember reading the Spurs kitman's book where he talks about seeing Ian Rush before a Spurs v Liverpool game in the days when Rush was a superstar and Rush came over and made a point of helping him carry the Spurs kits over. Sometimes individual players or even the direction of the club has drifted away from that but I think under Brendan Rodgers the club is again conducting itself with manners and dignity and is also trying to play a good brand of football.
Do I want Liverpool to win the league? no
But I think it is a good football club with generally knowledgable fans, a great history of success and a good brand of football and at its best it stands for some good values too.
I guess there's possibly a generational thing, where most of the type of fans you get on websites like this student site are from an era where they don't remember seeing Liverpool win league titles, whereas the media at large and the pundits are brought up (or played in, in the case of the pundits) an era when Liverpool were dominant not only in England but in Europe. So maybe the younger generation can't understand why Liverpool is regarded as such a big club.
I think there are some good things about Liverpool as a club, it has a tight sense of unity and community amongst the fans, and I generally find when you read Liverpool fans discussing footballing issues they are quite well informed and not the type to make rash judgements or decisions.
Sometimes it grates when they overplay the whole "us against the world" thing: I think Dalglish was one for this with his prickly defensive attitude to everybody outside Liverpool. But I also like to look at the positives of Liverpool, there is a concept of the "Liverpool Way" which is about doing things with manners and class and not behaving like an arrogant superstar, I remember reading the Spurs kitman's book where he talks about seeing Ian Rush before a Spurs v Liverpool game in the days when Rush was a superstar and Rush came over and made a point of helping him carry the Spurs kits over. Sometimes individual players or even the direction of the club has drifted away from that but I think under Brendan Rodgers the club is again conducting itself with manners and dignity and is also trying to play a good brand of football.
Do I want Liverpool to win the league? no
But I think it is a good football club with generally knowledgable fans, a great history of success and a good brand of football and at its best it stands for some good values too.
Original post by Fizzel
Its generally Arsenal fans who see their club as morally superior.
So this
Original post by lucas13
cos they have gained success through development of their homegrown players rather than just buying success like chelsea and city do.
Not really...
Henderson- £20m
Allen- £15m
Mignolet- £10m
Coutinho- £9m
Suarez- £23m
Sturridge- £12m
Sakho- £15m
To name several.
They even spaffed £35m on Carroll before making a massive loss on him.
Apart from Gerrard, who regularly starts for Liverpool, who has came through the academy and can claim to be a 'success'? Not Raheem Sterling either because he was bought from QPR.
Original post by Kieran-SAFC
Not really...
Henderson- £20m
Allen- £15m
Mignolet- £10m
Coutinho- £9m
Suarez- £23m
Sturridge- £12m
Sakho- £15m
To name several.
They even spaffed £35m on Carroll before making a massive loss on him.
Apart from Gerrard, who regularly starts for Liverpool, who has came through the academy and can claim to be a 'success'? Not Raheem Sterling either because he was bought from QPR.
Henderson- £20m
Allen- £15m
Mignolet- £10m
Coutinho- £9m
Suarez- £23m
Sturridge- £12m
Sakho- £15m
To name several.
They even spaffed £35m on Carroll before making a massive loss on him.
Apart from Gerrard, who regularly starts for Liverpool, who has came through the academy and can claim to be a 'success'? Not Raheem Sterling either because he was bought from QPR.
i agree thats a lot its just nothing compared to city/chelsea
http://www.themag.co.uk/the-mag-articles/league-table-premier-league-spending-5-years-nufc-come/
and looking at that the net is the crucial number
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by lucas13
i agree thats a lot its just nothing compared to city/chelsea
http://www.themag.co.uk/the-mag-articles/league-table-premier-league-spending-5-years-nufc-come/
and looking at that the net is the crucial number
http://www.themag.co.uk/the-mag-articles/league-table-premier-league-spending-5-years-nufc-come/
and looking at that the net is the crucial number
Oh yeah I understand that. Was just making the point that Liverpool are big spenders in terms of fees/wages
Still, they've done fantastically well this year have Liverpool. It'll be interesting to see if they can replicate this next season.I've seen that table before. The amount we (Sunderland) have spent in relation to how well we do is criminal. Especially when you look at Everton.
Original post by Kieran-SAFC
Oh yeah I understand that. Was just making the point that Liverpool are big spenders in terms of fees/wages Still, they've done fantastically well this year have Liverpool. It'll be interesting to see if they can replicate this next season.
I've seen that table before. The amount we (Sunderland) have spent in relation to how well we do is criminal. Especially when you look at Everton.
Still, they've done fantastically well this year have Liverpool. It'll be interesting to see if they can replicate this next season.I've seen that table before. The amount we (Sunderland) have spent in relation to how well we do is criminal. Especially when you look at Everton.
we'll you have to pay a fortune in wages else players leave, the trick is to buy players when they're young as they have resale value rather than buying old players which will be good for a few seasons but end up costing you more overall.
also young payers have lower fees, a lot of old crap players, eg ferdinand end up with big contracts but dont add anything to the team, man u will have the problem with rooney in 2 or 3 years. they shoudnt have given him a 5 year contract.
with psg/monaco/chelsea/city driving up prices its getting harder to compete with europe's elite, liverpool and atletico shows it can still be done though.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by lucas13
we'll you have to pay a fortune in wages else players leave, the trick is to buy players when they're young as they have resale value rather than buying old players which will be good for a few seasons but end up costing you more overall.
also young payers have lower fees, a lot of old crap players, eg ferdinand end up with big contracts but dont add anything to the team, man u will have the problem with rooney in 2 or 3 years. they shoudnt have given him a 5 year contract.
with psg/monaco/chelsea/city driving up prices its getting harder to compete with europe's elite, liverpool and atletico shows it can still be done though.
also young payers have lower fees, a lot of old crap players, eg ferdinand end up with big contracts but dont add anything to the team, man u will have the problem with rooney in 2 or 3 years. they shoudnt have given him a 5 year contract.
with psg/monaco/chelsea/city driving up prices its getting harder to compete with europe's elite, liverpool and atletico shows it can still be done though.
You're right there!
Another club for example...Borussia Dortmund. Their wage bill is significantly smaller than QPR's. Unbelievable that.
While there's no need to bring up Heysel. I do think that there was injustice to the rest of the league because of that disaster.
Not WUMming or using it as banter but it's a pisstake that Chelsea e.g. missed out on european qualification because of some dickheaded Liverpool fans. Same thing with Everton who had a top team and missed out on the european cup. Liverpool successfully managed to weaken the league in europe for over a decade. Add to that English teams were dominant in the late 70s and early 80s in europe with Liverpool and forest winning the european cup 6 times and with Villa winning it as well in 10 years.
Also with hillsborough, I sympathise entirely with Liverpool fans, what happened and the cover up is nothing short of a farce. The people who blamed it on the fans should be put in jail tbh.
Not WUMming or using it as banter but it's a pisstake that Chelsea e.g. missed out on european qualification because of some dickheaded Liverpool fans. Same thing with Everton who had a top team and missed out on the european cup. Liverpool successfully managed to weaken the league in europe for over a decade. Add to that English teams were dominant in the late 70s and early 80s in europe with Liverpool and forest winning the european cup 6 times and with Villa winning it as well in 10 years.
Also with hillsborough, I sympathise entirely with Liverpool fans, what happened and the cover up is nothing short of a farce. The people who blamed it on the fans should be put in jail tbh.
(edited 9 years ago)
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