The Student Room Group

Distribution of wealth

I know next to nothing about politics but I had some thoughts on the distribution of wealth in the UK.

When people view statistics on the distribution of wealth, comments such as "it's unfair" or "it's unjust" are not uncommon. But surely we should expect that? I would assume that wealth is inversely proportional to the number of people.

Thoughts?

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One of the main problems is that much of the wealth is concentrated into a small minority and retain that wealth throughout the generations and thus there offspring have far better chances in life through in particular private school through virtue of their ancestors.
Original post by Davij038
One of the main problems is that much of the wealth is concentrated into a small minority and retain that wealth throughout the generations and thus there offspring have far better chances in life through in particular private school through virtue of their ancestors.


Partly true . Wealth is concentrated on a small minority, however its rarely the same people. That grouping continually changes. The Van der Belts and Carnegies of yesterday aren't the in top place now.

Capital continues to flow. Some keep their money, others loose it. As they loose it, others replace them.

How many of the FT top 100 come from landed aristocracy? The answer is not many. Bernie Eccleston for example is wealthy, but I doubt his children or future generations will be as wealthy.

This is 2014. not 1914.
Reply 3
A certain level of inequality is a very good thing. Without it, a capitalist society couldn't function and the benefits of aspiration, innovation and service that flourish in such a system simply would not exist.
Original post by Hariex
I know next to nothing about politics but I had some thoughts on the distribution of wealth in the UK.

When people view statistics on the distribution of wealth, comments such as "it's unfair" or "it's unjust" are not uncommon. But surely we should expect that? I would assume that wealth is inversely proportional to the number of people.

Thoughts?


I agree to some extent. You would expect some to earn more than others. However, I think that the key question is social mobility. If you have more money, you can invest more. Just a quick glance at basic bank accounts shows that if you have more than £5000, for example, to invest, then you earn a bigger interest rate. On a broader scale, that means that those with more money are able to make more money. The question is whether somebody with little money can make that step to having money to invest. That is why people think it's unfair or unjust, because it's so easy to get trapped in a low income cycle...
Reply 5
Original post by LifeOfDreams
I agree to some extent. You would expect some to earn more than others. However, I think that the key question is social mobility. If you have more money, you can invest more. Just a quick glance at basic bank accounts shows that if you have more than £5000, for example, to invest, then you earn a bigger interest rate. On a broader scale, that means that those with more money are able to make more money. The question is whether somebody with little money can make that step to having money to invest. That is why people think it's unfair or unjust, because it's so easy to get trapped in a low income cycle...


The average person can save money to invest, most don't because not only is their a poor perception of investment in this country but we are also probably second only to the USA as consumerism goes.
The problem with the economics today is usury and why do so few people understand this? You wont find many politicians brave enough to stand against the international bankers.I'm sure they love the idea of Miliband borrowing lots of money.Usury is a scam,The likes of the IMF only hurt countries by plaguing them with debt. They often pick on poor countries or countries who may need to rebuild after say a war. You've just been invaded by the US and your country is in ruins, you need money to rebuild and what do you do? borrow from the IMF but this always comes at a catch.
(edited 9 years ago)
Reply 7
Inequality in small numbers, as Lib suggests, is actually a good thing for motivation and investment.
However, at the level we have it it seems to support tax evasion, hoarding wealth and other things that are severely dangerous for the economy.
In short, people should be allowed to work harder to obtain more money than others, but the current levels are ridiculous.
Inequality is detrimental to the health of our economy and to the livelihoods of ordinary people. Not only this, but is a reflection of the fundamental injustice and unfairness of a capitalist economy.

For example, in the UK, a CEO can expect to earn 50-150 times as much money as the lowest paid worker in his company. Does the CEO work 100 times harder than the average-salaried employee? Of course not - so why does he deserve that pay scale?

Or, let's take another example. The richest people in our country earn money through investments, which require absolutely no work at all - they simply place bets on the hard work of other people. This nets them insane profits, yet they don't have to work for that money themselves. And, if those investments go wrong as they did in 2008, the government bails them out.

There are bankers and businessmen living extravagant lifestyles in London while other families are struggling to feed themselves. Inequality and poverty are scandals of the 21st century.
(edited 9 years ago)
Reply 9
Lib and Duck sum it up perfectly.

With regards to social mobility i think people are too pessimistic, i come from a very poor background and i would be shocked if i never earn an above average salary and eventually join the middle classes with home ownership and two cars. Not getting a graduate job straight out of university does not condemn you to poverty for the rest of your life which is what some would seem to have you believe.

With regards to how fair inequality is i do as i said take a similar view to Lib and Duck. With that being said however the only area i find hard to justify is entertainment (footballers, singers), while i understand the economic argument on a moral level it's very hard for me to justify these people being extremely rich.
Original post by JamesGibson
Inequality is detrimental to the health of our economy and to the livelihoods of ordinary people. Not only this, but is a reflection of the fundamental injustice and unfairness of a capitalist economy.

For example, in the UK, a CEO can expect to earn 50-150 times as much money as the lowest paid worker in his company. Does the CEO work 100 times harder than the average-salaried employee? Of course not - so why does he deserve that pay scale?

Or, let's take another example. The richest people in our country earn money through investments, which require absolutely no work at all - they simply place bets on the hard work of other people. This nets them insane profits, yet they don't have to work for that money themselves. And, if those investments go wrong as they did in 2008, the government bails them out.

There are bankers and businessmen living extravagant lifestyles in London while other families are struggling to feed themselves. Inequality and poverty are scandals of the 21st century.


Making money from investments dies take work.More importantly it involves taking risk. You make a
Mistake with you're investments and you loose you're investment.

We'll always have a degree if inequality even if we have everybody the same amount of money. Some people will save it and invest it. others will fritter it away. End result is that they'll be aims if inequality after a few months after somebody has foolishly spent their money.

you use the word scandal when describing first world problems.
Original post by JamesGibson
Inequality is detrimental to the health of our economy and to the livelihoods of ordinary people. Not only this, but is a reflection of the fundamental injustice and unfairness of a capitalist economy.

For example, in the UK, a CEO can expect to earn 50-150 times as much money as the lowest paid worker in his company. Does the CEO work 100 times harder than the average-salaried employee? Of course not - so why does he deserve that pay scale?

Or, let's take another example. The richest people in our country earn money through investments, which require absolutely no work at all - they simply place bets on the hard work of other people. This nets them insane profits, yet they don't have to work for that money themselves. And, if those investments go wrong as they did in 2008, the government bails them out.

There are bankers and businessmen living extravagant lifestyles in London while other families are struggling to feed themselves. Inequality and poverty are scandals of the 21st century.


Excellent post. You have a very good understanding of the UK economy, and you would be a valuable asset to the Yes campaign. You sound like Robin McAlpine from the Jimmy Reid Foundation.
Just tell me this guys. Why is it fair a retired banker earns more than cleaner who works 12 hour days on zero hour contracts for her whole life while trying to support her two kids? Why is it fair that the richest merely inherit their wealth while the rest of us work for it?

It's not fair. The working class are the wealth creators and the investors are the wealth holders - it isn't fair and it needs to change.
Original post by JamesGibson
Just tell me this guys. Why is it fair a retired banker earns more than cleaner who works 12 hour days on zero hour contracts for her whole life while trying to support her two kids? Why is it fair that the richest merely inherit their wealth while the rest of us work for it?

It's not fair. The working class are the wealth creators and the investors are the wealth holders - it isn't fair and it needs to change.


They were given the same opportunities in life and the banker made the most of them. The cleaner didn't. I went to a state school and I know several people who now work in the finance industry, as lawyers, as doctors, as accountants..they didn't inherit their wealth, they worked for it. If you spend your entire life in a minimum wage job in a country full of opportunity such as the UK then no doubt you didn't make the effort to better yourself, to learn new skills and to make yourself valuable to potential employers. No one forced your hypothetical cleaner to have two children, that was their choice, and hell they would have benefited massively from the generosity of the social security system through free education, healthcare and benefits for their children. The tax contributions made on a minimum wage wouldn't come close to paying for all this, so she would have no doubt been subsidized by the people that did make a success of themselves and contribute far more to the system than they take out. Fair? Easily..

Also to your earlier ridiculous point about CEO pay, you don't get paid based on how "hard" you work (as if the number of hours is the only measure of work), you are paid on how much your work is worth to the company. The good CEO being worth 100 times more to the company than a regular employee is quite plausible.
Reply 14
It's all completely fair. The rich deserve to be rich and the poor deserve to be poor.
Original post by MatureStudent36
Partly true . Wealth is concentrated on a small minority, however its rarely the same people. That grouping continually changes. The Van der Belts and Carnegies of yesterday aren't the in top place now.

Capital continues to flow. Some keep their money, others loose it. As they loose it, others replace them.

How many of the FT top 100 come from landed aristocracy? The answer is not many. Bernie Eccleston for example is wealthy, but I doubt his children or future generations will be as wealthy.

This is 2014. not 1914.


A good point but that logic pertains to extreme wealth. Generally we are talking about the 'upper class'. Not famously rich but nevertheless they'll be wealthy enough to send there children to private schools and their children's children etc. (not that that is a bad thing in itself) Wealth does carry on. This is best scene in the 'political elite' in the UK and Japan.
Herodotus was wrong, custom isn't king - circumstance is.
Original post by RayApparently
A good point but that logic pertains to extreme wealth. Generally we are talking about the 'upper class'. Not famously rich but nevertheless they'll be wealthy enough to send there children to private schools and their children's children etc. (not that that is a bad thing in itself) Wealth does carry on. This is best scene in the 'political elite' in the UK and Japan.


Tricky one. Wealth can create wealth but not always, and throughout history you'll see a political elite. Son following in fathers footsteps. Churchill went into politics after his father. We now see Euan Blair looking at trying to become an MP. But interestingly enough they tend to be the exception to the rule.

You are of course a by product of you're surroundings.

I often look at myself and my friends. We all came from a working class background. All went to the local state school and have all been rather successful.

Others I went to school with had the same opportunities than we did but haven't been as successful.

I out a lot of that down to patenting and pushing your kids. A group of kids from the same background result in parents with a strong work ethic producing successful kids. Parents lacking a strong work ethic produce unsuccessful kids. In situations like that, there's very little the state can do to overcome that.

As harsh as it sounds, it's survival of the fittest.

Some kids have the self discipline to work their way up.

The way I look at it is my parents aimed to give me a better start in life than they had. I'll aim to give my kids a better start in life than I had. Its general progression. For all of the complaints that people have these days, life is actually somewhat easier than previous generations. We've weathered a serious financial down turn and not had the social impacts on the scale we've seen before. No Jarrow marches etc.

I was raised in an old school labour household where socialism/communism was normal behaviour. I've turned my back in that as I realise that it didn't work. It breeds inequality where hard work isn't rewarded.
(edited 9 years ago)
Nobody deserves to be poor, nobody deserves to suffer - even if they're the laziest, immoral criminal in the world.

It's very easy to reward the smartest and most intelligent, but we must not forget about our obligation to every single human being.

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