Do I have to respect your beliefs?
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Original post by Jebedee
So why should we respect religious beliefs over other's? Say that of Hitler's? You're giving religions extra privilege there which screws over those with different or no religion.
Both hate people who are different to their ideals and both are guilty of mass indoctrination.
Both hate people who are different to their ideals and both are guilty of mass indoctrination.
We should religious beliefs than that of hitlers as they have some morals like the bible unlike hitler who was just arrogant and wanted his own way.
...The key thing is that Hitlers indoctrinated people to support his beliefs unlike other religious books i.e The Bible. Also religious books tend to be from God as stated by religious people. Hitler was just an ordinary person who was brutal to everyone he despised. Religious beliefs are held upon the fact that they are facts.
Original post by Asciant
Because in general religions do not advocate the mass killing of Jews 
You should obviously not respect Hitler-esque beliefs, i.e. killing is good, but you should respect people's religious beliefs etc.
After all, they are respecting your right not to hold a religious belief, and not trying to force their faith on you.
You should obviously not respect Hitler-esque beliefs, i.e. killing is good, but you should respect people's religious beliefs etc. After all, they are respecting your right not to hold a religious belief, and not trying to force their faith on you.
In general, they try to get away with as much killing as possible...wholly depending on the country we're talking about. Plus there are various countries where people can be imprisoned, killed or branded as terrorists for the crime of not holding a religious belief. In addition, the way religions are worming their way into governments in order so they can be in a position to force their faith on people is rather disrespectful wouldn't you say?
Original post by manchesterunited15
So you've just agreed with me that we shouldn't just respect everyone's beliefs automatically?
We should respect peoples beliefs but we can choose not to agree with them.
Original post by German123
We should respect peoples beliefs but we can choose not to agree with them.
Makes absolutely no sense.
Original post by Jebedee
So why should we respect religious beliefs over other's? Say that of Hitler's? You're giving religions extra privilege there which screws over those with different or no religion.
Both hate people who are different to their ideals and both are guilty of mass indoctrination.
Both hate people who are different to their ideals and both are guilty of mass indoctrination.
What you are saying is not totally true as the Bible does not support hatred of others and i am sure other holy books dothe same unlike hitler who was brutal and full of hate.
Original post by manchesterunited15
Makes absolutely no sense.
Yes it makes sense if you look at it from another perspective not yours.
If you were to read my posts before i am sure you would definately agree with what i am saying.
Original post by German123
We should religious beliefs than that of hitlers as they have some morals like the bible unlike hitler who was just arrogant and wanted his own way.
...The key thing is that Hitlers indoctrinated people to support his beliefs unlike other religious books i.e The Bible. Also religious books tend to be from God as stated by religious people. Hitler was just an ordinary person who was brutal to everyone he despised. Religious beliefs are held upon the fact that they are facts.
...The key thing is that Hitlers indoctrinated people to support his beliefs unlike other religious books i.e The Bible. Also religious books tend to be from God as stated by religious people. Hitler was just an ordinary person who was brutal to everyone he despised. Religious beliefs are held upon the fact that they are facts.
So if something has SOME morals, it then excuses the immoral things? Clear fallacious thinking there dude. A person who saves ten people then rapes a child, is still a child rapist and still deserves punishment. No?
People are indoctrinated all over the world from birth to believe in the bible. Also yes they do state they are from god but until that has been demonstrated to be a fact, it cannot be used as an argument. Hitler believed what he was doing was good, just as religious people believe what they are doing is good.
Under your logic, I can do whatever I want without any moral ramifications, as long as I merely suggest it is for the benefit of furthering some god based agenda.
Original post by German123
This is worty of respect coz it could be right. With regards to maths we know 1+1 is not 2 as it can be proven with fingers but with regards to the world creation people state that its so old but u never know thay could be right. so there is a belief to respect isiint there.
Wat?We have conclusive proof that the Earth is more than 6,000 years old. There is no argument there.
I'm not even going to comment on your first statement.
Original post by Jebedee
In general, they try to get away with as much killing as possible...wholly depending on the country we're talking about. Plus there are various countries where people can be imprisoned, killed or branded as terrorists for the crime of not holding a religious belief. In addition, the way religions are worming their way into governments in order so they can be in a position to force their faith on people is rather disrespectful wouldn't you say?
Yes it is, but you're judging a majority on a minority. Your average religious person doesn't go round looking for the next opportunity to kill someone. Maybe a few do, and you wouldn't respect them because murder is not ok.
To the issues of religious countries, well it is their country, they can do what they want. If you don't like it, don't go there. Provided the law is clear about what is ok and what is not then I would consider that fine.
Religions are worming their way into governments? Do you have any examples?
Original post by German123
What you are saying is not totally true as the Bible does not support hatred of others and i am sure other holy books dothe same unlike hitler who was brutal and full of hate.
Have you even read the bible? Give Deuteronomy a whirl.
Original post by Asciant
Yes it is, but you're judging a majority on a minority. Your average religious person doesn't go round looking for the next opportunity to kill someone. Maybe a few do, and you wouldn't respect them because murder is not ok.
To the issues of religious countries, well it is their country, they can do what they want. If you don't like it, don't go there. Provided the law is clear about what is ok and what is not then I would consider that fine.
Religions are worming their way into governments? Do you have any examples?
To the issues of religious countries, well it is their country, they can do what they want. If you don't like it, don't go there. Provided the law is clear about what is ok and what is not then I would consider that fine.
Religions are worming their way into governments? Do you have any examples?
http://www.pewglobal.org/2013/09/10/muslim-publics-share-concerns-about-extremist-groups/
As you can see there are people in the millions who support terrorist related acts. If 80% think suicide bombing is unjustifiable, that leaves 20% who think it is. In a country with the population like Pakistan for example, that is roughly 36 million people. That's not really a tiny amount of people and not even counting other countries.
If it is their country and they can do what they want, I take it you fully support Nazism. Hitler had political power over Germany so by your logic was totally justified in what he did.
Original post by Jebedee
So if something has SOME morals, it then excuses the immoral things? Clear fallacious thinking there dude. A person who saves ten people then rapes a child, is still a child rapist and still deserves punishment. No?
People are indoctrinated all over the world from birth to believe in the bible. Also yes they do state they are from god but until that has been demonstrated to be a fact, it cannot be used as an argument. Hitler believed what he was doing was good, just as religious people believe what they are doing is good.
Under your logic, I can do whatever I want without any moral ramifications, as long as I merely suggest it is for the benefit of furthering some god based agenda.
People are indoctrinated all over the world from birth to believe in the bible. Also yes they do state they are from god but until that has been demonstrated to be a fact, it cannot be used as an argument. Hitler believed what he was doing was good, just as religious people believe what they are doing is good.
Under your logic, I can do whatever I want without any moral ramifications, as long as I merely suggest it is for the benefit of furthering some god based agenda.
yes it can. Have you not heard of the cosmological and teological argument. Both of them can fit into this.b Yes Hitler did believe that what he was doing was good but it was clearly not as he did not realy benefit from what he did. Hitler did not get a revalation from God to be doing his brutal stuff. Religious people believe that what they are doing is for God and its pleasing God so they continue to do what they do.
Original post by Jebedee
Have you even read the bible? Give Deuteronomy a whirl.
http://www.pewglobal.org/2013/09/10/muslim-publics-share-concerns-about-extremist-groups/
As you can see there are people in the millions who support terrorist related acts. If 80% think suicide bombing is unjustifiable, that leaves 20% who think it is. In a country with the population like Pakistan for example, that is roughly 36 million people. That's not really a tiny amount of people and not even counting other countries.
If it is their country and they can do what they want, I take it you fully support Nazism. Hitler had political power over Germany so by your logic was totally justified in what he did.
http://www.pewglobal.org/2013/09/10/muslim-publics-share-concerns-about-extremist-groups/
As you can see there are people in the millions who support terrorist related acts. If 80% think suicide bombing is unjustifiable, that leaves 20% who think it is. In a country with the population like Pakistan for example, that is roughly 36 million people. That's not really a tiny amount of people and not even counting other countries.
If it is their country and they can do what they want, I take it you fully support Nazism. Hitler had political power over Germany so by your logic was totally justified in what he did.
There's only 3% who support it in Pakistan according to that data, but there's 1.6 billion Muslims in the world. I would class that as a minority.
Hitler was justified in some of the actions he carried out in Germany. He wasn't justified in the murder of Communists or Jews, because you can't just kill someone because you dislike them. He could have deported them instead, if he really disliked them. The vast majority of Jews were not even German anyway, there was only around 500 000 German Jews, the rest were from other countries like Czechoslovakia.
Hitler should have been stopped the moment he started invading the spot. It is not ok to take away another countries' freedom, which includes holding their own beliefs.
Original post by Jebedee
For your info i have read the Bible and i am fully aware that the some portion of the Bible contradict themselves as the OT states "an eye for an eye" where as the NT states turn turn the other cheek.
What is your point of me reading Deuteronomy?
Original post by German123
You may be right about it not happening but who knows?
The thing with hitler is that people in those days may have respected his beliefs but did not totally agree with them/ supported them as they were simply brutal. With me i respect peoples beliefs but dont always agree with them-you can do that too you know.
The thing with hitler is that people in those days may have respected his beliefs but did not totally agree with them/ supported them as they were simply brutal. With me i respect peoples beliefs but dont always agree with them-you can do that too you know.
No, what you're saying doesn't make sense. Why would someone support something because it's brutal? Surely that's a reason to not support something. And if they were willing to support an act because it was brutal they probably would have agreed with it and thus respected it.
If you do that then fine, I don't.
Original post by German123
This is worty of respect coz it could be right. With regards to maths we know 1+1 is not 2 as it can be proven with fingers but with regards to the world creation people state that its so old but u never know thay could be right. so there is a belief to respect isiint there.
No, it could not be right. We know for a fact that the earth is not 6,000 years old, there is no possibility that that theory is right.
Original post by Jebedee
Have you even read the bible? Give Deuteronomy a whirl.
http://www.pewglobal.org/2013/09/10/muslim-publics-share-concerns-about-extremist-groups/
As you can see there are people in the millions who support terrorist related acts. If 80% think suicide bombing is unjustifiable, that leaves 20% who think it is. In a country with the population like Pakistan for example, that is roughly 36 million people. That's not really a tiny amount of people and not even counting other countries.
If it is their country and they can do what they want, I take it you fully support Nazism. Hitler had political power over Germany so by your logic was totally justified in what he did.
http://www.pewglobal.org/2013/09/10/muslim-publics-share-concerns-about-extremist-groups/
As you can see there are people in the millions who support terrorist related acts. If 80% think suicide bombing is unjustifiable, that leaves 20% who think it is. In a country with the population like Pakistan for example, that is roughly 36 million people. That's not really a tiny amount of people and not even counting other countries.
If it is their country and they can do what they want, I take it you fully support Nazism. Hitler had political power over Germany so by your logic was totally justified in what he did.
you do know in pakistan there is more than 1 religion
Original post by German123
yes it can. Have you not heard of the cosmological and teological argument. Both of them can fit into this.b Yes Hitler did believe that what he was doing was good but it was clearly not as he did not realy benefit from what he did. Hitler did not get a revalation from God to be doing his brutal stuff. Religious people believe that what they are doing is for God and its pleasing God so they continue to do what they do.
How do you know he didn't? There is as much evidence for that as there is for any other supposed revelation.
Original post by Asciant
There's only 3% who support it in Pakistan according to that data, but there's 1.6 billion Muslims in the world. I would class that as a minority.
Hitler was justified in some of the actions he carried out in Germany. He wasn't justified in the murder of Communists or Jews, because you can't just kill someone because you dislike them. He could have deported them instead, if he really disliked them. The vast majority of Jews were not even German anyway, there was only around 500 000 German Jews, the rest were from other countries like Czechoslovakia.
Hitler should have been stopped the moment he started invading the spot. It is not ok to take away another countries' freedom, which includes holding their own beliefs.
Hitler was justified in some of the actions he carried out in Germany. He wasn't justified in the murder of Communists or Jews, because you can't just kill someone because you dislike them. He could have deported them instead, if he really disliked them. The vast majority of Jews were not even German anyway, there was only around 500 000 German Jews, the rest were from other countries like Czechoslovakia.
Hitler should have been stopped the moment he started invading the spot. It is not ok to take away another countries' freedom, which includes holding their own beliefs.
So are you telling me it is acceptable to kill/imprison Atheists but not Jews? Are you also saying committing atrocities and genocide is ok as long as you keep it domestic?
[QUOTE="German123;47434527"]
Original post by Jebedee
Have you even read the bible? Give Deuteronomy a whirl.
For your info i have read the Bible and i am fully aware that the some portion of the Bible contradict themselves as the OT states "an eye for an eye" where as the NT states turn turn the other cheek.
What is your point of me reading Deuteronomy?
For your info i have read the Bible and i am fully aware that the some portion of the Bible contradict themselves as the OT states "an eye for an eye" where as the NT states turn turn the other cheek.
What is your point of me reading Deuteronomy?
That's one of the worst parts of the bible. But if you're one of those NT bashers. I reject your NT based on the fact I do not support slavery.
So you're suggesting that the opinion of theists matters more than atheists with your line of reasoning. I hate to break it to you but we have to share this planet so you can be more reasonable or it's going to end in bloodshed one way or another.
Original post by Qari
you do know in pakistan there is more than 1 religion
I am aware, and this does not detract from any of my points made.
Original post by Plantagenet Crown
No, what you're saying doesn't make sense. Why would someone support something because it's brutal? Surely that's a reason to not support something. And if they were willing to support an act because it was brutal they probably would have agreed with it and thus respected it.
If you do that then fine, I don't.
If you do that then fine, I don't.
If you studied/ study History at GCSE like me it will make sense to you in a way. People respected hitlers beliefs even though they did not totally gree with them because they would automatically get punished for going against him like some did and got put into concentration caps. Also in those days hitler had a secret plice who would spy on everyone who dared to go against hitlers policies. To add to this everyone had to report if they saw something suspicious i.e a protest against hitlers policies.
Original post by arcturus7
If it's an opinion then almost by definition there is no correct answer, at least that we know of anyways. Sure, I believe that my opinion's are correct in some sense, otherwise I would change them, but by correct, it may be that it's an opinion where there is no one right answer. I don't believe there is a God, but I don't know that there isn't, and as such I wouldn't try and argue that I'm right. I just explain why I believe what I believe whenever I talk about it, and I also listen to the other side. Just because we have a difference of opinion doesn't mean I feel that they should believe the same as me.
I actually do respect the idea that there is some sort of transcendental God who doesn't intervene in the world. I don't believe in it, but I don't disrespect it just because of that.
I don't respect the idea that some things in religious scripture should be taken literally, such as the creation story, because it is proven to be wrong.
Does that make sense?
I actually do respect the idea that there is some sort of transcendental God who doesn't intervene in the world. I don't believe in it, but I don't disrespect it just because of that.
I don't respect the idea that some things in religious scripture should be taken literally, such as the creation story, because it is proven to be wrong.
Does that make sense?
What I meant was that you feel that your opinion is in fact the correct one. Or in the case of religious arguments that yours is the correct position to hold (thinking more generally theism, deism, atheism, agnostic, etc.). We may not know what the correct answer is but there is one. And everyone (or rather most) feels that theirs is the correct one and that their reasoning for holding that opinion is valid, and sound. Correct.
So...when you discuss such things you think that people of other opinions are wrong, either in their holding of such a belief or just that their belief is wrong. And you think that if they had the correct knowledge that there is a proper conclusion to come to. That is to say that they should come to a certain conclusion. Not that they will or have to but that they should do. I'm trying to differentiate between having to believe something and thinking that a person should hold a certain conclusion.
Lets use the example of racism. There are racists. Now they don't have to think non-racist thoughts. They do not have to have non-racist beliefs but they should. Yes?
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