[Champagne Breakfast]

What would you say is the best place to study Chinese in America?

[jimmydoerre3]

(Original post by The Ace is Back)
What would you say is the best place to study Chinese in America?

everywhere. i read an article that says most good universities in the United States now have huge and amazing departments dedicated to the study of Chinese and Chinese culture for future intelligence and trade purposes. so probably the top 100 universities on USNEWS.......

[ryan2288]

Usually Chinese is best studied with a joint major. So, depending on what subject you are interested in(ie. Economics, IR, Engineering, Literature, etc), the school list may change.

From what ive heard, the best schools for Chinese Language and Culture are:

Middlebury
University of Wisconsin-Madison
Princeton
University of Pennsylvania
California-Berkeley
Conneticut College
University of Hawaii
University of Michigan Ann-Arbor
Columbia

But yeah, most top universities have good chinese programs(some exceptions of course) and it really depends on what you plan to do with the language.

[Champagne Breakfast]

(Original post by jimmydoerre3)
everywhere. i read an article that says most good universities in the United States now have huge and amazing departments dedicated to the study of Chinese and Chinese culture for future intelligence and trade purposes. so probably the top 100 universities on USNEWS.......

Did the article mention any in particular? Do you have a link?

[Champagne Breakfast]

(Original post by ryan2288)
Usually Chinese is best studied with a joint major. So, depending on what subject you are interested in(ie. Economics, IR, Engineering, Literature, etc), the school list may change.

From what ive heard, the best schools for Chinese Language and Culture are:

Middlebury
University of Wisconsin-Madison
Princeton
University of Pennsylvania
California-Berkeley
Conneticut College
University of Hawaii
University of Michigan Ann-Arbor
Columbia

But yeah, most top universities have good chinese programs(some exceptions of course) and it really depends on what you plan to do with the language.

Is Harvard not up there? Also what would you say is better in terms of Chinese - Princeton/Berkeley/Columbia? I'm thinking of combining it with Economics/International Relations, maybe even Social Studies if that's possible.

[ryan2288]

Most Ivies are generally fine for Languages, but they may not be specialised in fluency(for example, Middlebury is a much better language school in terms of fluency than any of the ivies). IR and Econ are good courses to use it with. I don't even know if Princeton has an undergraduate IR program, but if it does, I definitely would choose Princeton over any school in the nation for Chinese/Economics. It has great programs in both areas with highly respected study abroad opportunities and professors.

I think its kind of weird how everyone is so Ivy crazy on this board - remember these schools are incredibly difficult to get into, especially if you are an international and request financial aid. I'm not saying its bad to choose HYPMS, its just in most cases for most people, the possibility of studying at one of these places is unrealistic.


All of the other schools I listed are highly respected colleges in East Asian Studies and can provide the same level of education.

[ryan2288]

And "Social Studies" is not a degree, it is a subject area. You will generally have to choose between Economics, IR, Political Science, History, or Sociology.

[Champagne Breakfast]

Yeah about the Ivy thing, I'm applying to UK unis which I'm also happy to go to, and I figured if I'm going to fork out the extortionate sums the unis in the States make me pay, I might as well go to a place which has everything - name included. Sounds bad I know, but put yourself in my shoes. I'm not going to go over to the US (never been in my life), starting basically a new life and practically breaking the bank on the way, to end up at some random state college nobody has ever heard of.

[Champagne Breakfast]

Is the Harvard 'Social Studies' not a degree?

[ryan2288]

Yes, the social studies degree is a degree at Harvard, but it is unique to Harvard. Personally, I would pick something a little more related to China(east asian studies or an economics course would be preferable), mainly because you will probably be spending a lot of time in China if you are going to studying the language. The Social Studies course at Harvard has seemed to me like a model of PPE at Oxford. Sure, the degree has the name, but I find it kind of useless. Its very eurocentric and it places way too much emphasis on philosophy.

However, if this is the course you really want to study, than the subject matter isn't necessarily "unique" to Harvard even though by name it is. In the American system, you will always have required electives(open options) no matter which degree you choose. So say, you like Philosophy , you can still take a few philosophy classes as electives even if you decide to do something radically different - such as Engineering.

The reason why I am kind of frustrated by the Ivy bias is because as internationals, you have a much better chance at getting good financial aid from first tier schools that are not "ivies". I understand the importance of name recognition, but I also hope you understand that there are other equally beneficial options out there.

[Champagne Breakfast]

Hey do you reckon it's possible to do Social Studies + Chinese at Harvard? Would you end up with basically no real knowledge of any of the subjects you do? If you do those two together, do you get a cut down version of both degrees?

[shady lane]

(Original post by The Ace is Back)
Hey do you reckon it's possible to do Social Studies + Chinese at Harvard? Would you end up with basically no real knowledge of any of the subjects you do? If you do those two together, do you get a cut down version of both degrees?

In the US, a double major is not a cut-down version. You usually have to fulfill the requirements of both, separately. There is usually a limit to how many courses you can double-count (at Stanford we couldn't double-count any). People who do this just take more units per term.

[Bismarck]

(Original post by The Ace is Back)
Hey do you reckon it's possible to do Social Studies + Chinese at Harvard? Would you end up with basically no real knowledge of any of the subjects you do? If you do those two together, do you get a cut down version of both degrees?

I don't think there is any real reason to major in Chinese. You can simply take Chinese courses every single year. Three years of uni-level Chinese should make you nearly fluent in it (assuming you do some work by yourself). You can minor in it if you want some official proof of your knowledge. If you want to work in a field relating to China, your best bet is probably to major in something like economics, finance, sociology, or political science, and focus on east Asia.

(Original post by shady lane)
In the US, a double major is not a cut-down version. You usually have to fulfill the requirements of both, separately. There is usually a limit to how many courses you can double-count (at Stanford we couldn't double-count any). People who do this just take more units per term.

Yep. When I took a double-major, classes for my second major just counted against optional liberal arts classes. So instead of taking 8 random liberal classes, I took 10 classes in economics.

[Champagne Breakfast]

Well I'm interested in all the social sciences + history + philosophy, so Social Studies seems perfect. If you major in Chinese, surely you cover culture and stuff as well? Or is it simply language lessons? Do you think it would be possible to get into economics/political science at graduate school with Social Studies or is it too general?

Do you reckon it's better to do something like Economics and focus on China, or to do something like East Asian Studies where you can focus on China but also cover a range of social sciences?

[Bismarck]

(Original post by The Ace is Back)
Well I'm interested in all the social sciences + history + philosophy, so Social Studies seems perfect. If you major in Chinese, surely you cover culture and stuff as well? Or is it simply language lessons? Do you think it would be possible to get into economics/political science at graduate school with Social Studies or is it too general?

You'll probably cover everything at beginner level only, meaning you won't be particularly good at anything (other than the language). Social studies will make it difficult to get into grad school for economics since the latter requires a lot of previous knowledge in econometrics, statistics, and basic economic theory. It should be enough to get into a political science program.

Do you reckon it's better to do something like Economics and focus on China, or to do something like East Asian Studies where you can focus on China but also cover a range of social sciences?

You're not going to be working in half a dozen different fields, so what sense does it make to study about China from half a dozen different angles?

[Champagne Breakfast]

(Original post by Bismarck)
You're not going to be working in half a dozen different fields, so what sense does it make to study about China from half a dozen different angles?

Interest.

Besides, I don't know yet if I want to commit myself to Economics or Politics.

[Champagne Breakfast]

Hey is it possible to get into good graduate schools for politics if you majored in economics, so long as you demonstrate interest in politics?

[shady lane]

(Original post by The Ace is Back)
Hey is it possible to get into good graduate schools for politics if you majored in economics, so long as you demonstrate interest in politics?

It's possible, but you will have to show strong interest and experience. It would be tough to jump into politics at master's level with no experience in it prior. Many students would be going in with a much stronger background than you.

I'm starting an MSc Global Politics course, nearly everyone did political science/IR/development studies at undergrad or worked for NGOs or government agencies.

[Bismarck]

(Original post by The Ace is Back)
Interest.

Besides, I don't know yet if I want to commit myself to Economics or Politics.

You don't have to pick your major until 2nd or 3rd year in most American universities. Use your first year or two to try out as many different classes as possible.

Hey is it possible to get into good graduate schools for politics if you majored in economics, so long as you demonstrate interest in politics?

Let's put it this way: it's far easier to get into a poli sci grad program after doing eco at undergrad level than the other way around. To hedge your bets, you could take a lot of classes in international economics and macroeconomics and take a few politics courses on the side.

(Original post by shady lane)
It's possible, but you will have to show strong interest and experience. It would be tough to jump into politics at master's level with no experience in it prior. Many students would be going in with a much stronger background than you.

I'm starting an MSc Global Politics course, nearly everyone did political science/IR/development studies at undergrad or worked for NGOs or government agencies.

I took MSc IR at LSE and a good 1/10 of the people didn't major in poli sci or a closely related field. In fact, there were some engineering, commerce, physics, etc. majors. Most of them didn't have any relevant experience either. So it's possible to get into such a program without having a relevant degree, but still pretty damn hard.

[shady lane]

(Original post by Bismarck)
You don't have to pick your major until 2nd or 3rd year in most American universities. Use your first year or two to try out as many different classes as possible.



Let's put it this way: it's far easier to get into a poli sci grad program after doing eco at undergrad level than the other way around. To hedge your bets, you could take a lot of classes in international economics and macroeconomics and take a few politics courses on the side.



I took MSc IR at LSE and a good 1/10 of the people didn't major in poli sci or a closely related field. In fact, there were some engineering, commerce, physics, etc. majors. Most of them didn't have any relevant experience either. So it's possible to get into such a program without having a relevant degree, but still pretty damn hard.

Oh yes I think it's possible! By harder I meant coursework wise. I think a lot of economics and other more so-called technical majors think politics is an easy jump. But like I said, there will be people on your course who have written dissertations, studied politics intensely, have read all of the major authors, etc. You'd be playing a bit of catch up. However if you do university in the US you can take plenty of politics classes or even double major or minor in it, then it wouldn't be a problem.