'Introduction to Classics' reading group
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Original post by Rala
Ah well, what do you think? I personally found the play very funny and witty and sarcastic. Wilde is very good with words but I think that all his characters talk in the same way. I will write more soon as Im on mobile but any thoughts?
I found it really quite funny - Wilde uses both plot and language combined to mock Victorian society pretty damn well.
I couldn't initially see any 'deep', English Literature-esque meanings in it, bit quite a lot of people suggest that there might be some homosexual undertones. If there were any, I didn't pick up on them. The one takeaway from this was a mass of stuff to quote when your own wit runs out. Being about as far from an Adonis as is humanly possible, a little wit is my only saving grace and Wilde seems like a great guy to learn from in terms of the one-liner.
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Yes, mocking Victorian society indeed...except I found that some of the passages (actually quite many) are still accurate today! For example when Jack tells Algernon that his name isnt really Jack and Algernon comically 'refuses' to believe it. His lines are quite an universal truth. Some people turn away from the truth because they want to uphold their comfortable view of the world and how things are in it - in my opinion Algernon's lines reflect this perfectly.
Of all things, your comment made me link Wilde with the Matrix - is it morally wrong to live a lie, if the lie is better than reality? I'm thinking that it isn't, but Wilde insinuates that it inevitably leads to problems. Wilde presents a farce where lies turn out to be reality; however, everyone only lives happily ever after when the lies disappear. Clearly Wilde is right in that lies are difficult to maintain.
On a more realistic note, are white lies ever morally right? Personally, I think they can be. If withholding the truth makes people happier, and the truth is easy to withhold indefinitely, I don't see a problem with it.
Any thoughts about next week's readings? I'm fancying a spot of philosophy, maybe Plato.
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On a more realistic note, are white lies ever morally right? Personally, I think they can be. If withholding the truth makes people happier, and the truth is easy to withhold indefinitely, I don't see a problem with it.
Any thoughts about next week's readings? I'm fancying a spot of philosophy, maybe Plato.
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I loved the idea of living two separate lives - especially when you are expected to play a certain role in society, and just want some liberation. I would love to play another person, but in a way I do. I act differently when I am with my parents, compared with my friends, and with my lecturers at uni. These personalities obviously aren't as different as the ones portrayed in Wilde's story, but I do believe that we act act as different people depending on the circumstances. We don't play the one role throughout our life.
As long as the lie does not harm other people, then I don't believe it is morally wrong. However, I do believe that in the end, most if not all lies will come back to haunt us.
White lies on the other hand, are acceptable in my opinion as long as you don't go overboard with them. Once you begin to weave lies into your stories, it can be difficult to stop - something I feel Wilde portrayed well in the novel.
Original post by Krollo
Of all things, your comment made me link Wilde with the Matrix - is it morally wrong to live a lie, if the lie is better than reality?
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As long as the lie does not harm other people, then I don't believe it is morally wrong. However, I do believe that in the end, most if not all lies will come back to haunt us.
White lies on the other hand, are acceptable in my opinion as long as you don't go overboard with them. Once you begin to weave lies into your stories, it can be difficult to stop - something I feel Wilde portrayed well in the novel.
The idea of two different lives is indeed interesting. I think that nowadays many people live two lives - the one they show in social media and the real one. This also links to the discussion of living a lie. It's definitely not far away from a lie to establish an image of your life as perfect.
It's also like what Jack was doing to Algernon. He showed only the bits of himself he wanted Algernon to see.
I dont know if this is making any sense, I need to think this through after I have eaten (no, Im not going to eat any cucumber sandwiches).
And next weeks reading... anything goes but Id suggest something from Edgar Allan Poe : )
It's also like what Jack was doing to Algernon. He showed only the bits of himself he wanted Algernon to see.
I dont know if this is making any sense, I need to think this through after I have eaten (no, Im not going to eat any cucumber sandwiches).
And next weeks reading... anything goes but Id suggest something from Edgar Allan Poe : )
In order to keep things moving along nicely I'm going to suggest a double whammy of Plato's Apology and Aristophanes ' Clouds. It's only about 20% longer than TIOBE in total as both pieces are quite snappy.
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Original post by Luckshmitha
Original post by Angury
Original post by sarcastic-sal
Jalal Uddin
Original post by GuanyinBuddha
Original post by clever_swine
Original post by edgarcats
Original post by Arithmeticae
See above post.
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Original post by Rala
Alrighty then but I personally cant promise I can read it for next Saturday!
Mea culpa, I was late quoting everyone in. Shall we say a week today?
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I'm not sure how many people are following this any more, if you're lurking it'd be great if you popped your head in from time to time.
Anyway, how did people find the two texts? Plato's Apology was interesting both in terms of philosophy - a lot of important ideas are introduced here - but also in terms of plotline. Socrates' chutzpah is pretty legendary - I'm sure people can empathise with how annoyed he is that sportsmen get all the plaudits while intellectuals are ignored.
The Clouds is pretty crazy. You can see that Aristophanes is taking the piss out of philosophers (even though Socrates and Aristophanes were apparently chummy in real life), but the sheer quantity of lowbrow humour is ridiculous. I mean, **** jokes? Really? Then there's the random bit in the middle where the chorus speaks to the audience and basically slags off the audience. I'm not sure what to make of it if I'm honest.
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Anyway, how did people find the two texts? Plato's Apology was interesting both in terms of philosophy - a lot of important ideas are introduced here - but also in terms of plotline. Socrates' chutzpah is pretty legendary - I'm sure people can empathise with how annoyed he is that sportsmen get all the plaudits while intellectuals are ignored.
The Clouds is pretty crazy. You can see that Aristophanes is taking the piss out of philosophers (even though Socrates and Aristophanes were apparently chummy in real life), but the sheer quantity of lowbrow humour is ridiculous. I mean, **** jokes? Really? Then there's the random bit in the middle where the chorus speaks to the audience and basically slags off the audience. I'm not sure what to make of it if I'm honest.
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I missed the last two books 
What are reading this week?
What are reading this week?Original post by Luckshmitha
I missed the last two books What are reading this week?
What are reading this week?I don't think many people did get round to reading them, so we may as well postpone our new books until a few more people have caught up with everything.
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Original post by Angury
Sorry, I've been a bit busy lately trying to write two essays and juggle some lab work. How long are the two pieces we're reading? If they're not too long I'm sure I can get them finished by the end of tomorrow. 
They're not too long. Together they're a similar length to The importance of Being Earnest (though the Apology is quite heavy going).
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Original post by Krollo
I'm not sure how many people are following this any more, if you're lurking it'd be great if you popped your head in from time to time.
Anyway, how did people find the two texts? Plato's Apology was interesting both in terms of philosophy - a lot of important ideas are introduced here - but also in terms of plotline. Socrates' chutzpah is pretty legendary - I'm sure people can empathise with how annoyed he is that sportsmen get all the plaudits while intellectuals are ignored.
The Clouds is pretty crazy. You can see that Aristophanes is taking the piss out of philosophers (even though Socrates and Aristophanes were apparently chummy in real life), but the sheer quantity of lowbrow humour is ridiculous. I mean, **** jokes? Really? Then there's the random bit in the middle where the chorus speaks to the audience and basically slags off the audience. I'm not sure what to make of it if I'm honest.
Posted from TSR Mobile
Anyway, how did people find the two texts? Plato's Apology was interesting both in terms of philosophy - a lot of important ideas are introduced here - but also in terms of plotline. Socrates' chutzpah is pretty legendary - I'm sure people can empathise with how annoyed he is that sportsmen get all the plaudits while intellectuals are ignored.
The Clouds is pretty crazy. You can see that Aristophanes is taking the piss out of philosophers (even though Socrates and Aristophanes were apparently chummy in real life), but the sheer quantity of lowbrow humour is ridiculous. I mean, **** jokes? Really? Then there's the random bit in the middle where the chorus speaks to the audience and basically slags off the audience. I'm not sure what to make of it if I'm honest.
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I wasn't a fan of The Clouds when I finished it, but I've started to grow on it. I liked the idea of the chorus being seen as divine and omniprescent, and yet described by Socrates as full of water and sound. It created a line between religious and scientific thinking. I had to look up sophistry, but I also liked the way Astriphanes was pointing out the flaws in the two types of education. Especially the idea of appearing intellectual and using long words, but not actually applying them to the real world. The idea of socrates sitting in the air made me smile as well.
I just finished reading The Apology and I don't really know what to think of it. I didn't have many expectations to begin with, and my reaction to it at the moment is that it was alright. Nothing really stood out to me. I do like the idea of socratic irony, and his speech about death towards the end was interesting but I don't feel like I gained much from reading The Apology.
It may take a while for me to collect my thoughts and let things dig in though.
(edited 9 years ago)
Some very interesting thoughts there Angury.
Perhaps we could try a Mathematician's Apology by GH Hardy?
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Perhaps we could try a Mathematician's Apology by GH Hardy?
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Original post by Krollo
Some very interesting thoughts there Angury.
Perhaps we could try a Mathematician's Apology by GH Hardy?
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Perhaps we could try a Mathematician's Apology by GH Hardy?
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It can be found online:
http://www.math.ualberta.ca/~mss/misc/A%20Mathematician's%20Apology.pdf
I will post my thoughts once I've finished, it does look interesting.
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