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Reply 60
Original post by Stalin
In which case, how are people supposed to vote in favour of independence if these questions remain unanswered?

What if Scotland votes to become independent, but the UK government maintains its stance on the currency union. It's the euro..... And Scotland may have no choice in the matter if it wishes to join the EU, who's member states may force Scotland to adopt the full package or sit on the sidelines.

It seems as if the plan is to become independent at all costs without planning a viable exit strategy.


You cannot answer unanswerable questions. Its pretty damn simple.

The currency thing will only ever be answered when negotiations begin. As for the EU, only the UK government is in a position to clarify this, but they refuse to pre-negotiate Independence. Apart from the currency, of course! :rolleyes:

When you vote for anything you don't know exactly what will happen. Did the conservatives tell us they would bring in a bedroom tax prior to a vote?

The future is uncertain.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by Boab
You cannot answer unanswerable questions. Its pretty damn simple.

The currency thing will only ever be answered when negotiations begin. As for the EU, only the UK government is in a position to clarify this, but they refuse to pre-negotiate Independence. Apart from the currency, of course! :rolleyes:

When you vote for anything you don't know exactly what will happen. Did the conservatives tell us they would bring in a bedroom tax prior to a vote?

The future is uncertain.
So Alex Salmond and the SNP were idiots publishing a blueprint of what they would like to happen for Scotland. No one should question what Scotland they want if it votes to leave the British union. Are you reading what you're typing? you can answer hypothetical questions.

:hmmmm:
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by Boab
A few months? Try a few minutes or seconds, as these questions will remain unanswered. How can we possibly answer them until it happens?!


Well it's quite simple. The white paper and the SNP said 'we'll have a currency union with RUK', to which Westminster's response was 'we don't want one'.

When pressed for what the contingency is if RUK does indeed reject it the reply is 'they're bluffing'. Responses like that sum up the attitude of the Yes campaign-vote Yes now, worry about the consequences later.
Original post by Boab
You cannot answer unanswerable questions. Its pretty damn simple.


What's unanswerable about the currency Scotland would adopt if it became independent? How can you expect businesses in Scotland to vote for independence if they don't even know what the currency will be, let alone whether or not they'll be part of the EU?

The currency thing will only ever be answered when negotiations begin. As for the EU, only the UK government is in a position to clarify this, but they refuse to pre-negotiate Independence. Apart from the currency, of course! :rolleyes:


Salmond hasn't been clear on the EU either. For example, he's lied about automatic accession, and won't come clean about the conditions the EU will impose on Scotland if it becomes independent and seeks to join the Union, namely the Euro, Shengen, etc.

When you vote for anything you don't know exactly what will happen. Did the conservatives tell us they would bring in a bedroom tax prior to a vote?

The future is uncertain.




Is the Yes campaign foolish for mapping it out then?
(edited 9 years ago)
Reply 64
Original post by Stalin



Is the Yes campaign foolish for mapping it out then?


Is a white paper a map of the future, or an authoritative report designed to help understand an issue? You decide!

I haven't read it anyway.
(edited 9 years ago)
Reply 65
Original post by Stalin
Salmond hasn't been clear on the EU either. For example, he's lied about automatic accession, and won't come clean about the conditions the EU will impose on Scotland if it becomes independent and seeks to join the Union, namely the Euro, Shengen, etc.


We don't know what the conditions will be!!!

I'd suggest nobody really knows.

Bn3-pAKCYAASYuk.jpg
Original post by Boab
Is a white paper a map of the future, or an authoritative report designed to help understand an issue? You decide!

I haven't read it anyway.


You call yourself a nationalist yet haven't read the SNP bible?

Get outta here, you fake.
Reply 67
Original post by Stalin
You call yourself a nationalist yet haven't read the SNP bible?

Get outta here, you fake.


When have I ever called myself a nationalist?
Original post by Boab
When have I ever called myself a nationalist?


l got accused of that yesterday as well...

l think Moscow should be sorting out the Ukraine issue instead of pocking their nose into our affairs.
Reply 69
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Reply 70
Original post by babybuntin
l got accused of that yesterday as well...

l think Moscow should be sorting out the Ukraine issue instead of pocking their nose into our affairs.


Well yes, being lectured to by somebody who has the brass neck to call themselves Stalin is a bit rich!
Original post by Boab
When have I ever called myself a nationalist?


You're voting in favour of independence, right?
Original post by babybuntin
l got accused of that yesterday as well...

l think Moscow should be sorting out the Ukraine issue instead of pocking their nose into our affairs.


Is this as good as the nationalists get? An ad hominem?

:toofunny:
Reply 74
Just to quickly respond to your claim that those two issues haven't been answered, try reading the Fiscal Commission on currency choices, which clearly explains why a currency union is in the interests of both parties and how that can be safely managed. The UK govt's response has been denounced by members of the commission, 2 of whom are amongst the most cited and respected economists in the world, as a standard of work they wouldn't even let their students get away with as they view it as so bad. Anyway, like many people have said, this stance from the UK government is likely to be one which is trying to scare people into the No side, as there is "much uncertainty over it".

As for the EU, the SNP got their legal advice last year and published that separately with the White Paper, advice which many current and former EU officials agree with. Barroso's comments have already been called ridiculous by foreign politicians and experts, and the Spanish Govt have already said they won't veto negotiations or membership.
Maybe if you bothered to actually have at least a quick read of the White Paper, you'd have known these stances.
Original post by cammie
Just to quickly respond to your claim that those two issues haven't been answered, try reading the Fiscal Commission on currency choices, which clearly explains why a currency union is in the interests of both parties and how that can be safely managed. The UK govt's response has been denounced by members of the commission, 2 of whom are amongst the most cited and respected economists in the world, as a standard of work they wouldn't even let their students get away with as they view it as so bad. Anyway, like many people have said, this stance from the UK government is likely to be one which is trying to scare people into the No side, as there is "much uncertainty over it".

As for the EU, the SNP got their legal advice last year and published that separately with the White Paper, advice which many current and former EU officials agree with. Barroso's comments have already been called ridiculous by foreign politicians and experts, and the Spanish Govt have already said they won't veto negotiations or membership.
Maybe if you bothered to actually have at least a quick read of the White Paper, you'd have known these stances.


The people of Britain, according to polls, don't want a currency union with iScotland and the leaders of all the large Westminster parties have publicly ruled it out. You'll just have to get over it.

The EU has formally advised the Scottish government in writing that iScotland would not be entitled to remain as a member upon independence, and must re-apply for membership after independence. Whether it does so would be entirely a matter for independent Scots.
Reply 77
Original post by Good bloke
The people of Britain, according to polls, don't want a currency union with iScotland and the leaders of all the large Westminster parties have publicly ruled it out. You'll just have to get over it.

The EU has formally advised the Scottish government in writing that iScotland would not be entitled to remain as a member upon independence, and must re-apply for membership after independence. Whether it does so would be entirely a matter for independent Scots.


Like I said with the first part, it's likely to be a political tactic designed to try to influence how people vote, rather than what will happen post-No. As for the rUK people being against a currency union, well it's a shame that most of them haven't paid attention to the arguments for such a union, as the referendum doesn't get much coverage apart from the odd clip on the BBC and maybe the odd article which talks of doom and gloom. If they are against it purely out of spite, then that's not a problem, since there were 3 other choices laid out in the commission's report, with the most likely going to be the pound short-term and then a new currency for the long-term.

The EU, as an organisation, sent a letter to the Scottish Government saying that this wouldn't be the case? As far as I know, only certain individuals who will have no authority or influence in the negotiation processes, have said such things. I could easily counter this by saying that there was also a letter from a EC official which backs up the Scottish Govt's stance on this. Ultimately, like many of the experts and politicians have said, it would be inconceivable that 5 million people who have been Eu citizens for 40 years, would be thrown out and made to-reapply. It has been described as politically unacceptable and would cause too much trouble.
That's what I've picked up on, but if the EU as an organisation did send a letter, then please correct me with a link or quote. Cheers
Original post by cammie
Like I said with the first part, it's likely to be a political tactic designed to try to influence how people vote, rather than what will happen post-No.


Only pro-independence voters who are living in hope believe that. The rest of us fervently hope and believe you are wrong. The national party leaders will all look complete idiots if you are right. They have deliberately backed themselves into a corner from which there is no escape.

The EU, as an organisation, sent a letter to the Scottish Government saying that this wouldn't be the case? As far as I know, only certain individuals who will have no authority or influence in the negotiation processes, have said such things


The EU's Commission VP wrote to the Scottish government and stated the EU Commission's official position, and also made clear that the Commission has done so several times before:

http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/S4_EuropeanandExternalRelationsCommittee/Inquiries/Letter_from_Viviane_Reding_Vice_President_of_the_European_Commission_dated_20_March_2014__pdf.pdf

In fact, the SNP has a history of ignoring definitive and official statements it doesn't like (like the one on currency union and this one on EU membership), placing its fingers in its ears and singing "lalalalalala" in the hope that what was said will just go away and the voters won't notice. It would seem that many of its supporters do the same.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by Boab
We don't know what the conditions will be!!!

I'd suggest nobody really knows.

Bn3-pAKCYAASYuk.jpg
You don't need to know the conditions for answering if you want Scotland to have join the Eurozone, Sterling or neither. In a hypothetical question you set the damn conditions!!

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