I have 0 sympathy for Elliot Rodgers
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I have sympathy for Elliot Rodgers only because of the emotional pain he felt, but not because of his act of terror.
Involuntary celibacy causes a lot of emotional pressure, and people with Asperger's syndrome (such as myself) find it incredibly difficult to deal with emotional understanding of other people, let alone feeling lonely. This incident also reinforces the negativity that the idealistic interpretation of the typical "alpha male" or "hot girl", that seems so prevalent in today's society, has introduced. I was also bullied a fair bit in school and that knocked my self-confidence a lot, and there are also times where I've wanted very bad things to happen to people who I dislike for saying negative things to me, regardless of whether they were bullying me or not. However, I would never act on such thoughts because it would be disproportionate to do so, although I do feel like when people say negative things to me or reject me it stays with me for an extremely long time.
I'd like to stress that I by no means agree with what he did and I don't think it is justifiable to kill people over something like this. It is better to seek professional help and to only internalise harmful thoughts like this, not acting on them.
Involuntary celibacy causes a lot of emotional pressure, and people with Asperger's syndrome (such as myself) find it incredibly difficult to deal with emotional understanding of other people, let alone feeling lonely. This incident also reinforces the negativity that the idealistic interpretation of the typical "alpha male" or "hot girl", that seems so prevalent in today's society, has introduced. I was also bullied a fair bit in school and that knocked my self-confidence a lot, and there are also times where I've wanted very bad things to happen to people who I dislike for saying negative things to me, regardless of whether they were bullying me or not. However, I would never act on such thoughts because it would be disproportionate to do so, although I do feel like when people say negative things to me or reject me it stays with me for an extremely long time.
I'd like to stress that I by no means agree with what he did and I don't think it is justifiable to kill people over something like this. It is better to seek professional help and to only internalise harmful thoughts like this, not acting on them.
Original post by noobynoo
Exactly WHY do you have sympathy for most serial killers? You do know that's the kind of thing a serial killer might say.
Life situations aren't black and white....if a serial killer cannot help his or her actions, then how is s/he absolutely wrong or at fault?
I pity Rodgers, but then I reckon something was preventing him from accepting his reality.
Original post by KingBradly
I think I made it clear that I'm not blaming the Red Pill culture entirely on the murders. The point is that you have to pretty stupid and delusional in the first place to take the Red Pill culture seriously, which he almost certainly was. I just think that the whole Red Pill thing totally went to his head. He would have still been a total creep had he not been exposed to red pill culture, I just think its what ultimately drove him to do this.
Also, one must consider people as totally responsible for their actions (regardless of whether you choose to give them sympathy), as in the end you are what happens to you.
Also, one must consider people as totally responsible for their actions (regardless of whether you choose to give them sympathy), as in the end you are what happens to you.
Naive and not based in reality...
Original post by KingBradly
I usually feel some kind of sympathy for serial killers. Usually they're clearly individuals who are actually extremely sensitive, but had such horrific childhoods that they're little more than emotionally tortured wrecks. I don't think the term 'psychopath' is truly appropriate for killers such as Jeffrey Dahmer or Ed Gein.
I feel only absolute disgust for Elliot Rodgers though. To me, he seems like the disastrous end product of the whole 'Red Pill' men internet culture. It really does not surprise me that he spent a fair bit of time on Misc of Bodybuilding.com, a forum filled with sad losers idolizing alpha males, and dismissing anyone with an ounce of emotional intelligence as a 'beta'. He actually says in his final video how he will now be the 'alpha male'. I'm sure he's the kind of person who actually took stuff like this seriously.
Now, of course I'm sure there's a multitude of other factors to blame here. But I really do think the sad and desperate (and frankly pretty gay) new fascination with being masculine is at least partly to blame.
I feel only absolute disgust for Elliot Rodgers though. To me, he seems like the disastrous end product of the whole 'Red Pill' men internet culture. It really does not surprise me that he spent a fair bit of time on Misc of Bodybuilding.com, a forum filled with sad losers idolizing alpha males, and dismissing anyone with an ounce of emotional intelligence as a 'beta'. He actually says in his final video how he will now be the 'alpha male'. I'm sure he's the kind of person who actually took stuff like this seriously.
Now, of course I'm sure there's a multitude of other factors to blame here. But I really do think the sad and desperate (and frankly pretty gay) new fascination with being masculine is at least partly to blame.
Be warned of your mild homophobic comments; They have no context in the tragedy that occurred, or the factors (mitigating or not) that led to this man killing all those people.
Anyway.......
When contrasted to his life of privileges , his rants about virginity and consistent rejection come across as self-indulgent whining.
But you have to also take into account that this boy was unwell. So detached from reality and so evidently delusional that not even crass media manipulation or Internet social conditioning (as mentioned in your post) was going to accentuate or alleviate his problems.
I think the root of the problem lay in the lack of specialists to effectively probe his mindset...
I do think he is someone to be pitied, but the danger of that is that it trivilises the murder of those innocent people if we do so..
Original post by StrangeBanana
Mahatma Gandhi could have posted on the Misc if he was alive now. That wouldn't have made him a misogynist.
Again, what are you talking about? Geez, with the straw man arguments. No one said him posting there meant he was a misogynist, the site provides comfort for misogyny and he was a misogynist. It's not a coincidence.
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:TbptOnc5huUJ:forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php%3Ft%3D161988053
Doubting something doesn't change it.
Doubting something doesn't change it.
But you just proved my point for me, you acted like everyone on the site was outright condemning him and saying he was insane. Someone called him racist and then said they were just trolling, even though he was being racist, this is indicative of the collective intelligence of that forum. The majority of replies indulge the thread and ponder why he got an attractive girl. There mocking is standard on there. I can't only one guy who calls his creepiness out.
How do you know?
Because he made a manifesto and video of why he was doing what he was doing and prior to those things express misogyny in places where it was enabled and legitimised.
You just DID blame them. Look at the quote above this one. You say the "online manosphere" influenced his actions, which holds them at least partially responsible for them.
I said it legitimised some of his ideals, which influenced his actions. His ideals influenced his action which were enabled by parts of the manosphere. That's not the same as saying they are to blame. They take some responsibility in legitimising his ideals that led to his actions, not his actions.
well done, maybe another 1000 will die before obama finally decideds to overhaul the scam that is modern psychology
Disorders like his were varely rarely studied even up to this millenia
Maybe obama will increase research funding if 1000 more americans are killed this way.
I dont blame him, infact i congratulate him for not pussying out, takes alot of guts, and if the government didnt want anything to do with him, then well done
maybe they will start putting as much funds into mental health treatment as invading other countries
Disorders like his were varely rarely studied even up to this millenia
Maybe obama will increase research funding if 1000 more americans are killed this way.
I dont blame him, infact i congratulate him for not pussying out, takes alot of guts, and if the government didnt want anything to do with him, then well done
maybe they will start putting as much funds into mental health treatment as invading other countries
Original post by Kasa
Be warned of your mild homophobic comments; They have no context in the tragedy that occurred, or the factors (mitigating or not) that led to this man killing all those people.
It's not supposed to be homophobic. I'm just highlighting the irony of the fact that their obsession with heterosexual masculinity actually seems pretty homosexual.
Taking hipsterism to the extreme.
Original post by KingBradly
I usually feel some kind of sympathy for serial killers. Usually they're clearly individuals who are actually extremely sensitive, but had such horrific childhoods that they're little more than emotionally tortured wrecks. I don't think the term 'psychopath' is truly appropriate for killers such as Jeffrey Dahmer or Ed Gein.
I feel only absolute disgust for Elliot Rodgers though. To me, he seems like the disastrous end product of the whole 'Red Pill' men internet culture. It really does not surprise me that he spent a fair bit of time on Misc of Bodybuilding.com, a forum filled with sad losers idolizing alpha males, and dismissing anyone with an ounce of emotional intelligence as a 'beta'. He actually says in his final video how he will now be the 'alpha male'. I'm sure he's the kind of person who actually took stuff like this seriously.
Now, of course I'm sure there's a multitude of other factors to blame here. But I really do think the sad and desperate (and frankly pretty gay) new fascination with being masculine is at least partly to blame.
I feel only absolute disgust for Elliot Rodgers though. To me, he seems like the disastrous end product of the whole 'Red Pill' men internet culture. It really does not surprise me that he spent a fair bit of time on Misc of Bodybuilding.com, a forum filled with sad losers idolizing alpha males, and dismissing anyone with an ounce of emotional intelligence as a 'beta'. He actually says in his final video how he will now be the 'alpha male'. I'm sure he's the kind of person who actually took stuff like this seriously.
Now, of course I'm sure there's a multitude of other factors to blame here. But I really do think the sad and desperate (and frankly pretty gay) new fascination with being masculine is at least partly to blame.
I don't believe he had a fascination with being masculine as such and I think his membership of BB was probably little more than just another outlet for him to whine and rant at the world. Infact if you read through his "manifesto", he actually seemed to have a strong dislike of hypermasculine, "alpha brah" types.
Original post by Implication
This is an interesting idea, because I would take precisely the opposite conclusion from the observation that "you are what happens to you": ultimately, everything we do is outside of our control precisely because we are just the sum of things that have happened to us and are happening to us- all outside of our control.
And that conclusion would be entirely valid, because I think it goes both ways. We are both an inevitable process of the universe, as well the universe controlling itself. My real world interpretation of this would be that people must take full responsibility for their actions, but we must also accept that a person is a little like a river. If a river floods a town, it's not the river that causes the flood any more than it is the heavy rain, or the low pressure system, or the lack of flood barriers.
Lol people with Aspergers aren't more likely to kill or be violent. Don't use mental illness in order to erase the real cause of killings like these.
He was a misogynist who believed women owed him something, as the patriarchy has taught him they do, so he got angry and violent when he wasn't given what he thought he should have [women].
He was a misogynist who believed women owed him something, as the patriarchy has taught him they do, so he got angry and violent when he wasn't given what he thought he should have [women].
Original post by WocWarrior
Again, what are you talking about? Geez, with the straw man arguments. No one said him posting there meant he was a misogynist, the site provides comfort for misogyny and he was a misogynist. It's not a coincidence.
It's not a straw man. You implied with your post that his posting on the forum showed that he was a misogynist. It doesn't.
But you just proved my point for me, you acted like everyone on the site was outright condemning him and saying he was insane. Someone called him racist and then said they were just trolling, even though he was being racist, this is indicative of the collective intelligence of that forum. The majority of replies indulge the thread and ponder why he got an attractive girl. There mocking is standard on there. I can't only one guy who calls his creepiness out.
I have not said, or implied, that every person on the sight was calling him crazy. The thread shows clearly that his views were unpopular. That is all.
Because he made a manifesto and video of why he was doing what he was doing and prior to those things express misogyny in places where it was enabled and legitimised.
He was insane. The video is hardly a "manifesto".
I said it legitimised some of his ideals, which influenced his actions. His ideals influenced his action which were enabled by parts of the manosphere. That's not the same as saying they are to blame. They take some responsibility in legitimising his ideals that led to his actions, not his actions.
So the forum is NOT to blame?
What are we talking about, then?
It's not a straw man. You implied with your post that his posting on the forum showed that he was a misogynist. It doesn't.
But you just proved my point for me, you acted like everyone on the site was outright condemning him and saying he was insane. Someone called him racist and then said they were just trolling, even though he was being racist, this is indicative of the collective intelligence of that forum. The majority of replies indulge the thread and ponder why he got an attractive girl. There mocking is standard on there. I can't only one guy who calls his creepiness out.
I have not said, or implied, that every person on the sight was calling him crazy. The thread shows clearly that his views were unpopular. That is all.
Because he made a manifesto and video of why he was doing what he was doing and prior to those things express misogyny in places where it was enabled and legitimised.
He was insane. The video is hardly a "manifesto".
I said it legitimised some of his ideals, which influenced his actions. His ideals influenced his action which were enabled by parts of the manosphere. That's not the same as saying they are to blame. They take some responsibility in legitimising his ideals that led to his actions, not his actions.
So the forum is NOT to blame?
What are we talking about, then?Honestly, I've lost track of what your overall argument is. What are you actually trying to prove?
He obviously had mental issues, probably dismissed by others as "I can't physically see any issues, so there's nothing wrong with you. Get over it, stop being that way, act normal, be normal, why can't you just..., etc.."
I'm surprised there aren't more cases like this with the way most people treat those with mental issues.
I'm surprised there aren't more cases like this with the way most people treat those with mental issues.
Original post by MidnightDream
I have no sympathy for him either, the only thing I'm sorry about is he died thinking he'd done something bloody amazing
Its better than him living and seeing people calling him attractive all over the internet.
He'd have a cult of women willing to sleep with him if he was in jail like Charles Manson.
I take solace that a) his killing rampage was terribly executed and he achieved very little (40 unspent cartridges!?) And b) he just showed the world why no one would date him, essentially proving them right.
I agree, I feel zero sympathy to the kid. Blaming it on his aspergers is an insult to people with aspergers, especially given people with the condition are less likely to murder someone then the general populace.
I don't understand people trying to make it something it's not. Every time a white man or at least white passing [he was half asian or sth] commits a terror act like this we jump to say it was an isolated incident or that it was due to mental illness.
Like c'mon it was a blatant ideologically motivated killing.
Misogyny kills. He wrote a manifesto with all mens right activist type opinions and women hating statements and saying it was due to mental illness is a cop out. Might as well pretend the patriarchy and its toxic effects don't exist rightt.
Like c'mon it was a blatant ideologically motivated killing.
Misogyny kills. He wrote a manifesto with all mens right activist type opinions and women hating statements and saying it was due to mental illness is a cop out. Might as well pretend the patriarchy and its toxic effects don't exist rightt.
Original post by StrangeBanana
It's not a straw man.
It's not a straw man.
You're arguing against things I never said as if I said them.
You implied with your post that his posting on the forum showed that he was a misogynist. It doesn't.
I implied no such thing and have explained this to you.
I have not said, or implied, that every person on the sight was calling him crazy.
You said:
The thread shows clearly that his views were unpopular. That is all.
It shows no such thing. The majority of posts take part in his discussion topic.
Misogyny doesn't require sanity. He wrote a manifesto.
So the forum is NOT to blame? 
What are we talking about, then?
What are we talking about, then?I already explained what I was talking about.
I read his "manifesto" and I feel pretty sorry for him. He did a horrible thing (and I feel much more sorry for those he killed and their families), and people react to such things with anger. But feeling anger towards him doesn't make much sense to me.
If you read it, he repeatedly talks about how he felt that this was his only option, and how much he wishes he didn't have to do it and that if he could just find one female to love him then he wouldn't have to do it, etc. Those are the thoughts of somebody very disturbed but not somebody inherently evil.
Of course none of that excuses or justifies what he did. Absolutely not. I just think anger and hatred towards the perpetrator is simplistic (albeit understandable and normal) reaction, given the multitude of facets at play.
If you read it, he repeatedly talks about how he felt that this was his only option, and how much he wishes he didn't have to do it and that if he could just find one female to love him then he wouldn't have to do it, etc. Those are the thoughts of somebody very disturbed but not somebody inherently evil.
Of course none of that excuses or justifies what he did. Absolutely not. I just think anger and hatred towards the perpetrator is simplistic (albeit understandable and normal) reaction, given the multitude of facets at play.
omg people being like 'Awe I feel your pain Rodgers' ahah thats sociopathic, a woman has the right to reject a man without fearing a violent reaction.
Not our fault you feel entitled to a woman's body, thats your own issue you need to sort out right there. If you sympathize with him tbh you're part of the problem.
Not our fault you feel entitled to a woman's body, thats your own issue you need to sort out right there. If you sympathize with him tbh you're part of the problem.
I feel sorry for him not because he never got laid but because frankly he did not live in this world. He created his own personal hell of delusions and pure hatred by obsessive maladaptive thought processes. He even admitted that he didn't want to do what he did but felt he had to. He was suffering from an extreme psychosis and did not live one moment of happiness, even when killing, I can guarantee it. I feel a thousand times more sympathy for the innocent people who lost their lives and their loved ones, though. It's a huge shame but in a world with such an immense population and a very unnatural way of life we're bound to get the odd nut like this one.
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