Would YOU do it???? - FAO LLB students/graduates

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I'm as open and receptive to hearing negatives as I am positives... a reasoned negative is equally helpful. Having said that, (*I think) my mind is made up - it's £800 for the first year and a price I'm willing to pay even if it doesn't work out in order to end the annual round of contemaplation and indecision!

*edit - what am I talking about - there's no "think" about it!!

Reply 21

electroboy19

How comes your deciding to do the llb, wouldnt doing th ILEX give you a better career option?

Reply 22

Fireman John

Interesting... Why would ILEX give "better career options"?

To recap, I'm not doing the LLB soleley with the intention of embarking on a legal career. Until recently people joined the fire service and stayed with the fire service - it was the proverbial "job for life" - or 30 years/55yrs of age. Times have changed and are changing rapidly - I know of a dozen or so that have left of their own volition and due to the abolition of the discipline regulations and the introduction instead of the ACAS codoe of practice I know of a similar number who have been dismissed/forced out on discipline grounds.

The LLB is a degree and as such, I personally feel, is looked upon favourably by an employer for that reason alone - it is a DEGREE... how do people view a fellow/graduate of ILEX?! Somewhat differently I dare say. I'd even go so far as to say that those outside of the legal profession probably wouldn't have a clue what it amounted to.

I would also personally view the LLB considerably more esteem than the ILEX route - I also view an LLB as cosndierably more valuable than a degree in, lets say jurnalism or "newcastle Brown Ale Studies" (to be flippant).

Law is perhaps the only academic subject I have ever had any interest in. I couldn't wait to leave school and embark on a life of adventure and hands-on physical labour... I also beleive I have something of an affinity with Law. Despite only having a limited legal knowledge (through the A level), I have read many text books and where relevant - the necessary statutes. I have used my knowledge and interest to secure my sister a brand new replacement car when her sunroof started leaking - she was repeatedly fobbed off until I intervened and presented an argument using the Sale and Supply of Goods Act - "reasonable quality". During the last national strike I was also instrumental in having someone's suspension overturned by reference to the relevant article of the European Hman Rights Act and a precedent set with the case of (if I remember rightly) a Greek conscript and succesfully contesting an act of Gross Misconduct under the Discipline Regulations (a statutory instrument of the old Fire Services Act, as was). So as you can see - I have an interest in Law and I think the LLB would best satisfy my interest? From what I understand the ILEX is more vocational and aimed at people alreayd working within the legal sector?

I just don't see the ILEX route giving me an appropriate qualification suitable for me. I see the LLB as something of interest and something of value regardless of where my future employment lies. But what do I know? As i stated earlier - I'm receptive to all reaoned arguments - positive, negative and indifferent.

Reply 23

Lewisy-boy

Nice use of s14 SGA there with the car :biggrin:

, first year contract provision there, good work (i think its s14 might have got it wrong!). By the sounds of it you are perfect for an LLB and would thoroughly enjoy the problem solving aspect of the questions posed! I personally have no idea what an ILEX is beyond it qualifying you as a "legal executive" whatever that is, and nor do i care... sounds rabbish to me. LLB is certainly more academic and looked upon more favourably elsewhere in the world.

Reply 24

electroboy19

The LLB is a degree and as such, I personally feel, is looked upon favourably by an employer for that reason alone - it is a DEGREE... how do people view a fellow/graduate of ILEX?! Somewhat differently I dare say. I'd even go so far as to say that those outside of the legal profession probably wouldn't have a clue what it amounted to.

I agree with that completely. I might change my mind from doing the ILEX to the LLB now.

Reply 25

superdillon

Fireman John

Law is perhaps the only academic subject I have ever had any interest in. I couldn't wait to leave school and embark on a life of adventure and hands-on physical labour... I also beleive I have something of an affinity with Law. Despite only having a limited legal knowledge (through the A level), I have read many text books and where relevant - the necessary statutes. I have used my knowledge and interest to secure my sister a brand new replacement car when her sunroof started leaking - she was repeatedly fobbed off until I intervened and presented an argument using the Sale and Supply of Goods Act - "reasonable quality". During the last national strike I was also instrumental in having someone's suspension overturned by reference to the relevant article of the European Hman Rights Act and a precedent set with the case of (if I remember rightly) a Greek conscript and succesfully contesting an act of Gross Misconduct under the Discipline Regulations (a statutory instrument of the old Fire Services Act, as was).

Will be one hell of a Personal Statement if you put the above in it!

Reply 26

Fireman John

On the matter of "personal statement", how would the following measure up (I intend to get the whole thing completed and in the post this weekend):

"I am unable to state precisely what triggered my interest in 'Law' or when it happened, however, what I can say with absolute certainty is that my interest has grown and continued to grow ever since taking an “A” Level in Law in 1997. Law is a fundamental factor in day to day life with an increasing impact upon each and every one of us – from the increasing number of criminal offences through to increasingly litigious attitudes and many things in between and beyond. There can also be no argument that Law is constantly developing, of increasing importance and that the LLB is an esteemed qualification.

Despite my Law studies ending with the A level, I have maintained a growing interest in Law and have used my limited legal knowledge for the benefit of myself and others – ranging from securing my sister a replacment new car under the Sale and Supply of Goods Act through to assiting fellow firefighter’s charged under the old Discipline Regulations (a Statutoy Instrument of the Fire Services Act, as was) during the last national strike. The sense of reward and achievement through having created (and won) legal arguments was immense.

For many years I have contemplated taking my interest further, but time and again I have let the opportunities lapse by failing to complete and return the application forms, probably with the cost of studying being being the over-riding factor for having done so. What makes this year different is many fold, not least the fact that I feel I am, to some extent, “stagnating” and need a new challenge. I am also growing increasingly disillusioned with the fire service, the supposed “modernisation” agenda, the direction of the service and the perceived shift in focus away from operational activities (intervention and training) and towards community engagement and prevention. Whilst I feel there are some merits to this shift, the degrees by which it is being done, in my personal opinion, is bad for the public and bad for firefighters (safety, morale, job satisfaction etc.) I am currently 35 years old, at best I would be 40 years old by graduation with twenty years of valuable fire service work experience and in excess of twenty “employable” years still available. A high value degree such as Law coupled with my fire service experience (fire behaviour, arson, fire related injuries, Road Traffic Collisions, Health and Safety, broad community experience etc.) could arguably be seen as a very powerful combination. Considered opinion is that management level posts within the fire service will increasingly become graduate appointments (due to the introduction in ‘two-tier’ entry), so whether my future lay within the fire service or I ultimately seek employment opportunities elsewhere, obtaining the LLB will be of immense benefit to me."

Yay or Nay? Your comments please...

Reply 27

Lewisy-boy

Yeah its pretty good mate, however I am far too tired to dissect it and say which bits need improving, superdillion is pretty good at that and will probablydo it later :biggrin:

Reply 28

superdillon

Lewis-HuStuJCR

Yeah its pretty good mate, however I am far too tired to dissect it and say which bits need improving, superdillion is pretty good at that and will probablydo it later :biggrin:

Thank you for that Lewisy-boy.

There are definitely very good parts to it. In particular the 'why law' reasons and the 'why you' reasons.
It think that there are some important omissions however. Hobbies/interests is an important one. So if you play/captain your local football team get it in there.

Fireman John

Considered opinion is that management level posts within the fire service will increasingly become graduate appointments (due to the introduction in ‘two-tier’ entry), so whether my future lay within the fire service or I ultimately seek employment opportunities elsewhere, obtaining the LLB will be of immense benefit to me

Its possible that you are stating too much about what you want to do with your degree after you have got it. From what you stated in previous posts, I got the impression that you weren't really that sure (may be wrong on this point). The point is be more universal rather than getting into specifics. Say what bits are good about the LLB like, for example, the "the skills of analysis and arguing, which are key to the LLB, will come in useful to me later", well obviously better worded than that, but you get the point.

Fireman John

For many years I have contemplated taking my interest further, but time and again I have let the opportunities lapse by failing to complete and return the application forms, probably with the cost of studying being being the over-riding factor for having done so. What makes this year different is many fold, not least the fact that I feel I am, to some extent, “stagnating” and need a new challenge.

I would be tempted to scrap the first sentence, its very honest (which is commendable) but suggests lack of direction. Don't think that you have to explain why you want to do the LLB at this stage in your life if you don't want to.

Fireman John

Despite my Law studies ending with the A level, I have maintained a growing interest in Law and have used my limited legal knowledge for the benefit of myself and others – ranging from securing my sister a replacment new car under the Sale and Supply of Goods Act through to assiting fellow firefighter’s charged under the old Discipline Regulations (a Statutoy Instrument of the Fire Services Act, as was) during the last national strike. The sense of reward and achievement through having created (and won) legal arguments was immense.

Again a very good an important paragraph, but you don't have to start on a down-point (i.e. the point about your Law A-level). Why not make reference to it and then go into more detail about how you have used the knowledge. You could even just take one example and go into more detail and just mention the other times.

Fireman John

I am currently 35 years old, at best I would be 40 years old by graduation with twenty years of valuable fire service work experience and in excess of twenty “employable” years still available.

Am not to keen on this sentence, would scrap it. The parts after it, where you explain how the LLB will help you are good.

Reply 29

Lewisy-boy

I agree totally with what you say, the point about the hobbies etc was the one that really jumped out at me, they want people who are well rounded and not purely in it for the academics etc.

I also feel you were too specific with your career direction, but yea ... outlining the skills acquired etc is far better. good work superdillion :biggrin:

Reply 30

bookshifter

Fireman John,

Are you planning to start studying this academic yr, 06/07? If so then you would have to try and get a place via clearing (which I am sure you know is happening right now).

If you are trying for the next academic yr, 07/08 I was under the impression that you could only apply after 1 Sep 06.

After typing all that I suddenly remember that you want to do this part-time! So I guess you can forget all what I have typed!

Sheffield Uni has a better rep than Hallam, maybe you can try your luck there.

Good luck in your applications

Reply 31

Fireman John

Bookshifter - yeah, bit irrelevant, sorry - it's part time and sadly the "uni" don't do part-time, only the old poly, was was (no Hallam Uni)....

Superdillon/Lewis - hmmm... well, lets not forget I'm 35... my footballing days are over and to a large extent my "physically active" days are over - I've had one knee op in the last 6 months and the op on the second can't be far away!!!

Outside of work it's running, gym and cycling - all pretty solitary activities... I guess it comes with age - when you can no longer compete (and win) you go it alone!!!

Superdillon - I thank you for your comments and I will adjust accoridingly - obviosuly I want to portray myself in the best light possible (even though I susoect the personal statement is more formality than requirement at part time level). Many thanks.

Reply 32

kidney thief

I personally would scrap the part in the last paragraph beginning with "I am also growing increasingly disillusioned" up to "...job satisfaction, etc)" This jumped out to me as being very negative.

I would also rethink the part about career plans you have for the LLB...I was always told that admissions tutors don't really care what you want to do with the degree afterwards, they simply want to assess your aptitude for the study of law. The career plans bit, to me, sounds a little like you want the LLB just as just a means to an end, which (by the sound of things) you don't!

other than that, i think it's a cracking personal statement, good luck!

Reply 33

Redefined

You've started the entire statement off with a negative statement. I believe you've also gone a bit far in the 3rd paragraph with your disillusionment.

Try to be more positive about yourself, instead of saying "I am currently 35 years old, at best I would be 40 years old by graduation", say something like "I believe all of my experiences throughout my mature working life, accompanied by my drive and ambition, will aid me towards successfully completing a Law degree". (Not perfect, but I hope you get what I mean".

Also brag yourself up a bit more, tell them your skills/abilities that match that of a lawyer, as I feel that is more important for mature students.

Reply 34

Fireman John

Just a short note of thanks to all those that have contributed to this thread - in particular those that took the time and effort to dissect and suggest ammendments to my personal statement - the vast, vast majority of it taken on board and the form has now duly been completed. It will be submitted tomorrow!

Once again, many thanks.

Best Wishes :smile:

Good luck pal.

Good Luck with it all, feel free to PM and we can share our LLB journey :smile:

Reply 38

killiefan

I'm a part-time student at DMU in Leicester. We only do three 30 credit modules per year - the full-timers do 4, so 3 is the max we can do and still pay the p/t fees of £250 per module (last year it was £200). I'll be starting on my second year in October, and will have two more after this one.

It is very hard work finding the time to attend uni, work full time, keep up on your reading and do the courswork. I reckon I spent at least 20-25 hours most weeks on reading, revising and coursework - so be prepared to give up most of your life during your studies.

It is, however, very rewarding and the lecturers tend to help as much as they can if you have any queries or need further assistance with anything. We have blackboard online learning thing too which has been really useful this year too. I'm loving it so far though, I'm 27 and I'm finally getting the chance to do what I want with my life - I've wanted to study law for a long time but just could not afford to give up my job to do it.

I did well at school but for a variety of reasons didn't go to uni, and I'd recommend to anyone to go for it later on in life if they really want to - you'll only regret it if you dont.

Good luck with your studies, hope you do well.
Gail

Reply 39

Fireman John

Hi Gail, thnaks for your input regarding your own experiences.

I'm anticipating a huge workload and to be perfectly honest, I'm looking forward to it. This last 12 months I've got into some rather "bad habits" - up until now most of my time outside of work was spent doing things of a "physical nature" - running, gym, ccyling, mountains etc... all that abruptly ended with a knee condition. I have had an op that has helped somewhat but I'm not naive enough to think I'll be able to go back to the lifestyle I had. Over the last 12 months my life changed for the worse and I was spending hour upon hour in the pub - over 100 units per week minimum (that's how many I admitted to at my brigade medical and my pre-operation assessment, the latter leading to a horrified response from the nurse and me being sent directly for a liver function test). My weight increased by 12Kg in that period. I had the op in May and I am light training again - I've already broken the cycle of pub at 11am until 1 or 2am the next day (and that was every day when I wasn't working!! my best mate has the tenancy - I don't know when to say enough is enough!)

Not only do I have an interest in Law, it is definitely something I have considered doing year after year after year... I've got the ideal opportunity to do it this year and I am sure it will help keep me outta the pub!

Unlike you, I had a terrible time with school. Couldn't wait to leave and join the armed forces. I came back to education late in life and found that Law really grabbed me which I cannot say about any other academic subject.

I've just (literally) had a phone call from the University inviting me for interview on Thursday - here's hooping it goes well.

As i said - so far they've been nothing but helpful - allowing me to do either the 2 evenings per week, or in weeks where that clashes with my shifts allowing me to attend with the full timers in the day - and, where I can't get to either I've been told that there is the "virtual blackboard" with the lecturers notes etc... Sounds like a similar set-up to what you've got.

I'm really looking forward to the challenge and can't wait for Thursday to come round!

Thanks again for your input Gail!