1st Nov 2014- EU's latest power grab-surely a transfer of power to trigger referendum

On 1st November 2014 the full effect of Lisbon will be realised when the UK loses it right to veto 43 legal areas ranging from defence policy, criminal law, justice, foreign aid, energy, EU budget, free movement etc. The EU will change to Qualified Majority Voting.

Thoughts? this is a massive transfer of power so why has a referendum not been triggered when the LibDems and Labour have both said a transfer of power will lead to an in/out vote

http://www.callingengland.net/p/never-you-tell-em-lie.html
http://iainmckie.co.uk/uk-parliament-comes-effective-end-november-2014-new-eu-rules/

Reply 1

SHallowvale

Original post by Ace123

Surely this is a good thing? Qualified voting majority gives larger states in the EU more power over decision making in the European Council, preventing the smaller states (who collectively have more councillors but a smaller share of the EU demographic) from having more control than they should have.

Reply 2

Rakas21

Because the treaty it was passed in has already been ratified.

Abolition of the VETO is also not a bad thing when we have the third largest proportion of the EU's population.

Reply 3

Ace123

Original post by Rakas21

Because the treaty it was passed in has already been ratified.

Abolition of the VETO is also not a bad thing when we have the third largest proportion of the EU's population.

it is a bad thing because previously the UK could block law on its own if it objected because every member had to agree now the UK will be outvoted on all the issues we have under 10% of the seats in total we will be outvoted by the other countries so we have lost even more power

Reply 4

Quady

Original post by Ace123

Lisbon Treaty? You mean we've already transfered the powers but they've yet to be used...?

Reply 5

gladders

Original post by Ace123

In reality however, it's not as simple as being outvoted in the Council. Quite often Britain is quite a mainstream Member State and gets its objectives through the Council quite frequently. Your mistake is assuming it's some kind of legislative Senate where they sit, debate, and then vote.

In fact, it's a conference table, and the Member States negotiate and barter their votes and offer to accept/reject the proposal in return for consessions on other matters. So for example the UK may agree with Germany to vote against something in exchange for Germany abandoning its ideas on something else which the UK dislikes.

Of course they can still be outvoted, and the UK is very rarely an isolated voice opposing what the other Member States want to do, but the abolition of the veto makes it easier for the UK to achieve its objectives, as it prevents the tiny states from blocking quite sensible ideas.

Most of the Member State governments are as jealous of their sovereignty as Britain is, and we can use that to our advantage.

Parliament also has considerable control of the UK's position as the Government cannot vote on an issue until Parliament has released the documents relating to a particular proposal from scrutiny. Often, that can take years from their being laid before both Houses.

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 6

orange crush

Interesting point I saw over the weekend. If the referendum doesn't happen until 2017, Lisbon will have fully kicked in, meaning that states can veto us leaving.

Reply 7

gladders

Original post by orange crush

Interesting point I saw over the weekend. If the referendum doesn't happen until 2017, Lisbon will have fully kicked in, meaning that states can veto us leaving.

Are you implying that post-2017 the Treaty of Lisbon allows the Member States to block our exit from the EU? If so, you are wrong.

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 8

Rakas21

Original post by orange crush

Interesting point I saw over the weekend. If the referendum doesn't happen until 2017, Lisbon will have fully kicked in, meaning that states can veto us leaving.

That's rubbish. There's a specific section which allows for a country choosing to leave to remain a member for 2 extra years while negotiations take place.

They can VETO anything we want to negotiate, but there's no legal way to prevent us leaving. Not to mention there's no way to enforce it when payments to the EU stop.