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Durham University's international reputation

The reason I'm starting this thread is my concern of the University's slipping position on many university league tables. Although the University was named Sunday Times University of the Year in 2005, having previously been shortlisted for the award in 2004.

However, The Academic Ranking of World Universities (ARWU) 2006 [2005], published by the Institute of Higher Education, Shanghai Jiao Tong University, ranked Durham with an estimate of 151st-200th [203-300th] in the world, with Cambridge 2nd and Oxford 10th. Moreover, it was ranked with an estimate of 16th-22nd [20-30th] in the United Kingdom - Cambridge 1st and Oxford 2nd. The result rested partly on the lack of any Nobel prize or Fields medal winners from Durham. For its position, Durham's "number of highly cited researchers in broad subject categories in life sciences, medicine, physical sciences, engineering and social sciences" was relatively high - even marginally beating higher ranked UK Universities who made the top world 100 (e.g. Bristol and Edinburgh), though still significantly less than the top flight universities (including (in the UK) Imperial College, London; University College, London; Oxford; and Cambridge). In the other categories of "number of articles published in Nature and Science between 2000 and 2004", and "total number of articles indexed in Science Citation Index-expanded, Social Science Citation Index, and Arts & Humanities Citation Index in 2004" Durham faired more poorly. However, for score on size Durham scored fairly well having a higher score than the University of Manchster ranked some 100 places above Durham.

Moreover, in 2006 the Guardian ranked Durham 25th in the United Kingdom, concording with the ARWU study, although in other rankings Durham faired better. (See below)

Further in the '2007 Good University Guide' published by the Times Durham is placed 10th nationally[1] and rated Durham 5th in terms of entrance requirements with students having an average UCAS point score of 454.9 and came 15 in student satisfaction. Durham also gained 10th place in terms of RAE score per a staff member with a score of 5.7 out of 7. The guide also placed Durham 11th in terms of % of good hounours with 74.6% of Durham graduates achieving either a 1st or 2:1 class degree. Durham was also place 11th in regards to its completion rate (95.1% completion rate). The guide also highlighted the high rate of the student to staff ratio with Durham having a ratio of 21.2.


The Times Higher World University Rankings places Durham 83rd in the world, with ten other UK universities scoring above it (Cambridge and Oxford coming third and fourth, respectively).

Source: Wikipedia
In terms of entry standard, Durham is statistically ranked No 5th, only below Oxford, Cambridge, Imperial and LSE, yet Durham is being beating out by other "fresher" Universities such as Warwick, Nott, even Bath, Bristol and Manchester (if u look up the Global University league table).

I know it's not very sensible to post it in the Durham sub-forum which is obviously captured by Durham ppl. Nevertheless, if we try taking a non-biased view, how are u gonna comment on the University's international reputation? How famous is it in other European countries or in the US? Or have u even heard of it in other countries?
:tsr2:

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Reply 1
I don't really give a toss about it's international reputation to be honest as I'm not planning to move abroad.
Chemistry Research, Durham University
Durham University
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Abagnale
The reason I'm starting this thread is my concern of the University's slipping position on many university league tables. Although the University was named Sunday Times University of the Year in 2005, having previously been shortlisted for the award in 2004.


Source: Wikipedia
In terms of entry standard, Durham is statistically ranked No 5th, only below Oxford, Cambridge, Imperial and LSE, yet Durham is being beating out by other "fresher" Universities such as Warwick, Nott, even Bath, Bristol and Manchester (if u look up the Global University league table).

I know it's not very sensible to post it in the Durham sub-forum which is obviously captured by Durham ppl. Nevertheless, if we try taking a non-biased view, how are u gonna comment on the University's international reputation? How famous is it in other European countries or in the US? Or have u even heard of it in other countries?
:tsr2:



WRONG TABLES!! u need to look at tables according to SUBJECTS!! for example for sciences (chem and phys. specifically)...durham is ranked top 5 in UK!!!! and top 10 in EUROPE!! and top 25 in THE WORLD!!! for Politics and Econ it has gained more than 15 places..and is now top 10 in the UK!! which shows that some dep. are the so called "blossoming" departements, that will gain reputation sooner rather than later!!!


Durham has excellent reputation in Eastern European Countries, Russia and Germany!!
Reply 3
It's also been said (whether true or not) that Durham is low in some tables becasue of Stockton.
Yes stockton is dragging Durham down massively. The situation will change by the time you graduate. So just chill.
Reply 5
How is it gonna change? U mean in the future, Stockon will be separated from Durham? Im sorry if I may sound ignorant but I'm an oversea student and hardly had I heard of the University before. My parents always feel like they're wasting their money to send me to an Unknown university. That's part of the reasons why I want an answer for this question, an un-biased one. I hope u understand:smile:
Abagnale
How famous is it in other European countries or in the US? Or have u even heard of it in other countries?

:tsr2:

It is virtually unknown outside the UK.
Reply 7
MasterBlaster
WRONG TABLES!! u need to look at tables according to SUBJECTS!! for example for sciences (chem and phys. specifically)...durham is ranked top 5 in UK!!!! and top 10 in EUROPE!! and top 25 in THE WORLD!!! for Politics and Econ it has gained more than 15 places..and is now top 10 in the UK!! which shows that some dep. are the so called "blossoming" departements, that will gain reputation sooner rather than later!!!


Durham has excellent reputation in Eastern European Countries, Russia and Germany!!


Rite, I do agree that those depts u've mentioned are blossoming. And I do agree that Durham is amongst top 5 for many subjects. Given all that and the fact that it has very high entry standard (5th in the UK), it should only be ranked below Oxbridge and some London Unis (LSE, UCL, Imperial). Now we're seeing Warwick, Bristol even Loughborough and Bath are beating it out of the league. And look at The Guardian's ranking, Durham came 26th:mad: Now u're telling me that I'm looking at the wrong tables. Yet who are we to judge which table is wrong or right?
Reply 8
fundamentally
It is virtually unknown outside the UK.


So what are the universities that could be listed as "well-known" or "known" outside the UK? I know the answer is arguable, coz even Imperial and LSE are not quite well-known overseas. Yet can u just give me a rudimentary idea of how it is like in other countries?
Abagnale
Rite, I do agree that those depts u've mentioned are blossoming. And I do agree that Durham is amongst top 5 for many subjects. Given all that and the fact that it has very high entry standard (5th in the UK), it should only be ranked below Oxbridge and some London Unis (LSE, UCL, Imperial). Now we're seeing Warwick, Bristol even Loughborough and Bath are beating it out of the league. And look at The Guardian's ranking, Durham came 26th:mad: Now u're telling me that I'm looking at the wrong tables. Yet who are we to judge which table is wrong or right?



Well, thats exactly the problem of Durham, its not an allround university!! Like Oxbridge!!! however if u look at the london unis, then THEY ARE ALL VERY much SPECIALISED in a certain area.. LSE-Econ, Imperial-Sciences, Royal Holl-English/Drama/Film! And if you are good enough, then I would apply to one of those unis, but durham is I think the best second choice uni u can pick..at least thats what i did, and I think having Durham as an insurance is amazing!! No one is saying that u should pick Durham over something like LSE!! NO WAY!!! but it all depends on how good u are, and how realistic ur chances are of making LSE for example...

BTW- i dont think Warwick, Bath etc are as good as Durham...Warwick had like 30 course available on clearing!! which shows that they are not asked for..and favoured by students!! however the ONLY FIVE UNIS IN THE UK!!! (see article in times) who didnt have ANY course offered on clearing are Oxford, Cambrg, UCL, LSE and DURHAM!!!
that uni table in guardian is just a laugh seriously!!!! just look at ESSEX..place 9?!?! ....mmmm...interesting..bradford 8th!!!???????

and also....u are only gonna do the BACHELOR at Durham!! i would think that the masters degree is faaaar more important than the bachelor...look at all succesfull economists...example...george SOROS....he got his bachelor (4 years) in hungary...and his master degree (9 months!!) in econ..at LSE!!! (that my plan btw:smile:)....and if u ask ANYONE..where did he study..guess what the response will be?! ....LSE!!!
Reply 11
@ MasterBlaster: So ur firm is LSE, rite? And u missed it? Big big huggies from me! My firm was LSE as well. But I slipped by 3 marks off my "A", well, I may not be well-equipped enough to become a Londoner. I never regret having Durham as my insurance. It's a lovely place to live in. I believe Durham had great reputation many years ago, as the teachers and staff at my college all say it is one of the best Unis.
Reply 12
MasterBlaster
that uni table in guardian is just a laugh seriously!!!! just look at ESSEX..place 9?!?! ....mmmm...interesting..bradford 8th!!!???????

and also....u are only gonna do the BACHELOR at Durham!! i would think that the masters degree is faaaar more important than the bachelor...look at all succesfull economists...example...george SOROS....he got his bachelor (4 years) in hungary...and his master degree (9 months!!) in econ..at LSE!!! (that my plan btw:smile:)....and if u ask ANYONE..where did he study..guess what the response will be?! ....LSE!!!


Would you marry me?:suith: :biggrin:
Abagnale
@ MasterBlaster: So ur firm is LSE, rite? And u missed it? Big big huggies from me! My firm was LSE as well. But I slipped by 3 marks off my "A", well, I may not be well-equipped enough to become a Londoner. I never regret having Durham as my insurance. It's a lovely place to live in. I believe Durham had great reputation many years ago, as the teachers and staff at my college all say it is one of the best Unis.



yeah my firm is still OFFICIALLY LSE...my place will "expire" on the 31st of August...the admission officer told me that i need to miraculously find another ...5 IB points:smile:,which I wount, so luckely Durham took me, and Im gonna be there for the next year at least..so yeah..im still kind of mad at LSE..but ill show them that they made a mistake of not accepting me:smile:hehehe
Abagnale
Would you marry me?:suith: :biggrin:



well i dont even know whether u are male or female?!?!!!?:biggrin:
Reply 15
There are, as shown by the OP's quote, many different ways to "rate" a university, student satisfaction, staff to student ratio, research, number of articles published by staff, etc.
Along with this is the fact that, in my mind, Durham is unknown to the rest of the world, they will think of Oxbridge and then London Unis when listing British Universities.
I personalyl dont care about its standing, I just know that I enjoy it, and in my subject I will be getting a top quality degree from it.
Tables are not indicative, but I have to say, I hadn't heard of it until my first UCAS login. Now, the prospectus is sitting under my chair right now.

However, when I saw this thread, I was deciding whether or not to leave it as one of my 6 slots.

Imperial and LSE aren't known outside of the UK in the general public, but its like the University of California's...you add the magical word, "London," and people perk up.
Reply 17
MasterBlaster
yeah my firm is still OFFICIALLY LSE...my place will "expire" on the 31st of August...the admission officer told me that i need to miraculously find another ...5 IB points:smile:,which I wount, so luckely Durham took me, and Im gonna be there for the next year at least..so yeah..im still kind of mad at LSE..but ill show them that they made a mistake of not accepting me:smile:hehehe


LSE asked u to pick up another 5 IB points before Aug 31st? Well, no comment on it. I even defered my LSE offer to 2007 coz I hate London so bad. I'm still glad that they did give me an offer:smile: It means LSE does love me... conditionally. But Durham loves me unconditionally. How sweet is that!!!:suith:
Reply 18
Different league tables rate different aspects of different institutions.

On pure notability Durham has the advantage of being an old university. If employers etc have had over 100 years to hear of it then it helps in simply being known.

After that you need to decide what factors you find important in your choice of university.
The various league tables rate different factors with different weights and thus come out with wildly different answers.

In the case of the Guardians opinion of Durham:

It rates the staff at 6/6, so they think that you will be well taught by eminent researchers

It rates the spend per student at 9/10, so they think the facilities ought to be good with the investment going in.

It rates the staff/student ratio at only 2/6, but they do not publish their full methodology so I cannot tell whether a university with a lot of research only staff would do better here. At Durham, to get the typical academic's pay you must teach and research, you cannot get paid a professors salary and refuse to teach. This may have a lot to do with the low staff/student ratio as I have not noticed overcrowding.

Job Prospects comes in at 4/6 (published as 4/10 but the highest given to any institution is 6). If this is derived from the government figures, then each university sends out a letter to their graduates 6 months after graduation and asks what they are doing. The rating here will be dependant on the numbers claiming to be working in professional/graduate employment. The top universities are actually penalised by this system as people going into further study (PhDs etc) or professional qualifications (like the lawyers and medics) are not counted. Durham also has a large number of students who are wealthy, and can afford to go travelling for a year rather than apply for work, which again causes the figure to drop.

The Value Added Score again is not particularly fair on Durham as it is a measure of how well people with mediocre A-Levels etc get top degrees. If they don't take people with mediocre grades, then they don't score well here

The Entry score is how many A-Level points people have upon entry. If the A-Level system works, it means how bright and hardworking the students are upon entry. Durham does well here with 8/10

The Inclusiveness score is how many ethnic minorities, mature, and disabled students Durham has. For certain types of disability Durham is at a disadvantage with university buildings being old, protected from alteration by law, and based on cobbled streets. With the requirement to live in college for your first year, this puts many mature students off as well.

I hope that has explained the methodology behind the league tables, it's down to you to decide how much credance you give to the individual scores.
Reply 19
Pro Gryffindor Seeker
Tables are not indicative, but I have to say, I hadn't heard of it until my first UCAS login. Now, the prospectus is sitting under my chair right now.

However, when I saw this thread, I was deciding whether or not to leave it as one of my 6 slots.

Imperial and LSE aren't known outside of the UK in the general public, but its like the University of California's...you add the magical word, "London," and people perk up.


This thread rocks when an American gets involved:biggrin:

I love the example! "London" is indeed a magical word.

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