Computer Science graduates have the highest unemployment rate in the UK?
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My plan(I hope it's the right one) is to earn a CompSci Bsc and then do postgrad in something specialised when I've found out which area floats my boat.
Speaking to family members who work in IT there's a demand for analysts/project managers with technical knowledge who can fill the middle ground between the stereotypical geeks with no social skills and the non-technical management within companies.
Speaking to family members who work in IT there's a demand for analysts/project managers with technical knowledge who can fill the middle ground between the stereotypical geeks with no social skills and the non-technical management within companies.
Original post by TrojanH
Awesome Vlad, thank you for this! So are you serious with your 4th-year prediction? Do you think it's possible to be making 100k in 5 years? In tech, with a comfortable 40hr job / not crazy hours of IB.
As someone entering uni this year for CompSci what niches are really in demand and well-paid? This isn't for me to go into that area just for the money, I just want to probe around and see which areas interest me the most, that are also really well-paid
As someone entering uni this year for CompSci what niches are really in demand and well-paid? This isn't for me to go into that area just for the money, I just want to probe around and see which areas interest me the most, that are also really well-paid
Yes I'm serious. With 2 calendar months left of the current tax year, unless our share price tanks dramatically, i'll gross that much, yes. It's certainly possible for me to earn more - I've had offers for £85k basic + bonuses etc. working for finance institutions in the city, but I turned them down on the basis that they were too corporate and their culture didn't fit with me.
I work in incident response, so we tend to work some unpredictable hours, but we get TOIL for those extra hours, so yeah, it balances itself out eventually.
Original post by Mad Vlad
I can't speak for the rest of industry, but I'll cover off my experience:
Year 1: Junior analyst - £27k (typically £25k)
Year 2: Analyst - £31k
Year 3: Senior Analyst - £40k
Year 4: Senior Analyst (for a much better company) £~87k (forecast) for this year.
Year 1: Junior analyst - £27k (typically £25k)
Year 2: Analyst - £31k
Year 3: Senior Analyst - £40k
Year 4: Senior Analyst (for a much better company) £~87k (forecast) for this year.
I work for a very sales-focused company. When casually quizzing one of the sales guys (who gets a pretty good chunk of commission), he said I could probably ask for £40k (although as you say, salary greatly depends on how good youre seen as by your boss) no problem within my first year. I'm on 26k + 5k (pro-rate) bonus. No commission as I'm not in sales.
Original post by Mad Vlad
Yes I'm serious. With 2 calendar months left of the current tax year, unless our share price tanks dramatically, i'll gross that much, yes. It's certainly possible for me to earn more - I've had offers for £85k basic + bonuses etc. working for finance institutions in the city, but I turned them down on the basis that they were too corporate and their culture didn't fit with me.
I work in incident response, so we tend to work some unpredictable hours, but we get TOIL for those extra hours, so yeah, it balances itself out eventually.
I work in incident response, so we tend to work some unpredictable hours, but we get TOIL for those extra hours, so yeah, it balances itself out eventually.
So I predict your base salary to the nearest k (50k + 10k London) and yet I still know nothing lol. Obviously the numbers you provide for yourself are someone that considers themself to have done well for themselves such is the self selecting nature of formats like this.
The real squeeze is who can afford to live on 25-30k in London for a couple of years who doesn't have a base there. Which is one reason I don't work in cyber security. The other being it's hard to find interesting work (what I would call interesting anyway).
If you really want to talk money in this arena, when I was working in IB, the system got hacked and 2.7 million was ripped off from the clients' credit cards. No one was caught to my knowledge. I would be surprised if the biggest brains were on the security side.
Original post by CharlieGEM
So I predict your base salary to the nearest k (50k + 10k London) and yet I still know nothing lol. Obviously the numbers you provide for yourself are someone that considers themself to have done well for themselves such is the self selecting nature of formats like this.
The real squeeze is who can afford to live on 25-30k in London for a couple of years who doesn't have a base there. Which is one reason I don't work in cyber security. The other being it's hard to find interesting work (what I would call interesting anyway).
If you really want to talk money in this arena, when I was working in IB, the system got hacked and 2.7 million was ripped off from the clients' credit cards. No one was caught to my knowledge. I would be surprised if the biggest brains were on the security side.
The real squeeze is who can afford to live on 25-30k in London for a couple of years who doesn't have a base there. Which is one reason I don't work in cyber security. The other being it's hard to find interesting work (what I would call interesting anyway).
If you really want to talk money in this arena, when I was working in IB, the system got hacked and 2.7 million was ripped off from the clients' credit cards. No one was caught to my knowledge. I would be surprised if the biggest brains were on the security side.
I'm replying to most of your posts here as you seem seriously misinformed about "cyber".
There's plenty of massive organisations outside of London that pay respectable wages. Ncc group, mwr, BT ges, QinetiQ to name a few. Like did you even look?
As madvlad has said, the salary is there for people who work hard for it. That means working beyond the scope of your degree, doing research in your own time etc. undergrads really don't understand this concept, which is why they find it hard to get work after uni. You can't prove you're excited about a subject just because that's you're degree
Original post by tim_123
I'm replying to most of your posts here as you seem seriously misinformed about "cyber".
There's plenty of massive organisations outside of London that pay respectable wages. Ncc group, mwr, BT ges, QinetiQ to name a few. Like did you even look?
As madvlad has said, the salary is there for people who work hard for it. That means working beyond the scope of your degree, doing research in your own time etc. undergrads really don't understand this concept, which is why they find it hard to get work after uni. You can't prove you're excited about a subject just because that's you're degree
There's plenty of massive organisations outside of London that pay respectable wages. Ncc group, mwr, BT ges, QinetiQ to name a few. Like did you even look?
As madvlad has said, the salary is there for people who work hard for it. That means working beyond the scope of your degree, doing research in your own time etc. undergrads really don't understand this concept, which is why they find it hard to get work after uni. You can't prove you're excited about a subject just because that's you're degree
Ah I see, it's turned into the Spanish Inquisition. Helping out with a situation back home for the last five years meant I needed to earn 38k outside London and 45k in London as a minimum starting salary to break even.
While some of those places might indeed offer work of the type I am interested in and be a good match for what I have done as a hobby, I don't believe any pay that as a starting salary. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
As for all this about stupid money, it's not true, the money is good compared to some other jobs that's it. For reference, last week I earned over 700 pounds doing a job that required no formal education/qualifications or special skills in an economically deprived part of the UK. You're right, money is there if you work hard for it 😉
Should I forget my dreams of computer science and turn to economics whilst I have the chance. You guys are making me doubt my career path:/
Original post by kandykissesxox
Should I forget my dreams of computer science and turn to economics whilst I have the chance. You guys are making me doubt my career path:/
Read the past few replies to this thread, especially by MadVlad.
Posted from TSR Mobile
Year 1: Junior analyst - £27k (typically £25k)
Year 2: Analyst - £31k
Year 3: Senior Analyst - £40k
Year 4: Senior Analyst (for a much better company) £~87k (forecast) for this year.
It is pretty unrealistic to believe you will move up in position every year for 3 consecutive years as you will generally have longer as an Analyst before moving up to Senior Analyst. Progression is nowhere near this quick in most companies. There is often little or no short term mobility if there is a team structure with a Senior at the head of each unless they move on. Think the poster said he is on 60k basic with extras that can disappear if the company suffers a downturn, can't remember whether this was a London position or not.
The real way to make cash is contracting earning 80k+ as the average permanent position lasts just 2 to 3 years anyway in the IT industry. If you live around London there will be plenty of contract work, living away from London hotel life and costs make it far less attractive. You dont get the office politics contracting which is a massive bonus. Java is in demand around the country more than most languages and would see you stay in work, less likely to be offshored than database work also.
Year 2: Analyst - £31k
Year 3: Senior Analyst - £40k
Year 4: Senior Analyst (for a much better company) £~87k (forecast) for this year.
It is pretty unrealistic to believe you will move up in position every year for 3 consecutive years as you will generally have longer as an Analyst before moving up to Senior Analyst. Progression is nowhere near this quick in most companies. There is often little or no short term mobility if there is a team structure with a Senior at the head of each unless they move on. Think the poster said he is on 60k basic with extras that can disappear if the company suffers a downturn, can't remember whether this was a London position or not.
The real way to make cash is contracting earning 80k+ as the average permanent position lasts just 2 to 3 years anyway in the IT industry. If you live around London there will be plenty of contract work, living away from London hotel life and costs make it far less attractive. You dont get the office politics contracting which is a massive bonus. Java is in demand around the country more than most languages and would see you stay in work, less likely to be offshored than database work also.
Original post by A Dev
Year 1: Junior analyst - £27k (typically £25k)
Year 2: Analyst - £31k
Year 3: Senior Analyst - £40k
Year 4: Senior Analyst (for a much better company) £~87k (forecast) for this year.
It is pretty unrealistic to believe you will move up in position every year for 3 consecutive years as you will generally have longer as an Analyst before moving up to Senior Analyst. Progression is nowhere near this quick in most companies. There is often little or no short term mobility if there is a team structure with a Senior at the head of each unless they move on. Think the poster said he is on 60k basic with extras that can disappear if the company suffers a downturn, can't remember whether this was a London position or not.
The real way to make cash is contracting earning 80k+ as the average permanent position lasts just 2 to 3 years anyway in the IT industry. If you live around London there will be plenty of contract work, living away from London hotel life and costs make it far less attractive. You dont get the office politics contracting which is a massive bonus. Java is in demand around the country more than most languages and would see you stay in work, less likely to be offshored than database work also.
Year 2: Analyst - £31k
Year 3: Senior Analyst - £40k
Year 4: Senior Analyst (for a much better company) £~87k (forecast) for this year.
It is pretty unrealistic to believe you will move up in position every year for 3 consecutive years as you will generally have longer as an Analyst before moving up to Senior Analyst. Progression is nowhere near this quick in most companies. There is often little or no short term mobility if there is a team structure with a Senior at the head of each unless they move on. Think the poster said he is on 60k basic with extras that can disappear if the company suffers a downturn, can't remember whether this was a London position or not.
The real way to make cash is contracting earning 80k+ as the average permanent position lasts just 2 to 3 years anyway in the IT industry. If you live around London there will be plenty of contract work, living away from London hotel life and costs make it far less attractive. You dont get the office politics contracting which is a massive bonus. Java is in demand around the country more than most languages and would see you stay in work, less likely to be offshored than database work also.
People in security (who are good) move up very quickly. Else they move somewhere else
Original post by tim_123
People in security (who are good) move up very quickly. Else they move somewhere else
You hear this "who are good" quite a lot in the IT industry, which is one of the clues why comp sci grads have such high unemployment rates 😂
The fact that they don't always tend to be the most social types (or that is what people perceive anyway) so don't tend to just get any job (or a generic grad job) is another.
Original post by CharlieGEM
You hear this "who are good" quite a lot in the IT industry, which is one of the clues why comp sci grads have such high unemployment rates 😂
The fact that they don't always tend to be the most social types (or that is what people perceive anyway) so don't tend to just get any job (or a generic grad job) is another.
The fact that they don't always tend to be the most social types (or that is what people perceive anyway) so don't tend to just get any job (or a generic grad job) is another.
So why do you think that the social types fare better? Asking as an extrovert who wants to maximise his GAINZ.
Original post by TrojanH
So why do you think that the social types fare better? Asking as an extrovert who wants to maximise his GAINZ.
They usually find one of the managers or bosses to latch onto in one way or another. Helps in a couple of ways usually: you gain a protector and a ton of inside information.
Original post by A Dev
Which is exactly what a contractor does for 80k+ without the office politics.
Being a contractor is definitely not for everyone though.
Original post by A Dev
Year 1: Junior analyst - £27k (typically £25k)
Year 2: Analyst - £31k
Year 3: Senior Analyst - £40k
Year 4: Senior Analyst (for a much better company) £~87k (forecast) for this year.
It is pretty unrealistic to believe you will move up in position every year for 3 consecutive years as you will generally have longer as an Analyst before moving up to Senior Analyst. Progression is nowhere near this quick in most companies. There is often little or no short term mobility if there is a team structure with a Senior at the head of each unless they move on. Think the poster said he is on 60k basic with extras that can disappear if the company suffers a downturn, can't remember whether this was a London position or not.
The real way to make cash is contracting earning 80k+ as the average permanent position lasts just 2 to 3 years anyway in the IT industry. If you live around London there will be plenty of contract work, living away from London hotel life and costs make it far less attractive. You dont get the office politics contracting which is a massive bonus. Java is in demand around the country more than most languages and would see you stay in work, less likely to be offshored than database work also.
Year 2: Analyst - £31k
Year 3: Senior Analyst - £40k
Year 4: Senior Analyst (for a much better company) £~87k (forecast) for this year.
It is pretty unrealistic to believe you will move up in position every year for 3 consecutive years as you will generally have longer as an Analyst before moving up to Senior Analyst. Progression is nowhere near this quick in most companies. There is often little or no short term mobility if there is a team structure with a Senior at the head of each unless they move on. Think the poster said he is on 60k basic with extras that can disappear if the company suffers a downturn, can't remember whether this was a London position or not.
The real way to make cash is contracting earning 80k+ as the average permanent position lasts just 2 to 3 years anyway in the IT industry. If you live around London there will be plenty of contract work, living away from London hotel life and costs make it far less attractive. You dont get the office politics contracting which is a massive bonus. Java is in demand around the country more than most languages and would see you stay in work, less likely to be offshored than database work also.
No, it won't happen for everyone, but I've achieved it; it's about making the most of the opportunities you're presented with. I have guaranteed minimum bonuses and with company and individual performance elements built in. RE: shares, I receive RSUs worth equivalent of about $14k which i have to hold for 12 months, so even if the share price halves, I'll receive twice as many RSU's.
I'm not in London, no.
Worth also noting that RE: contracting, nobody's going to take you on as a self-employed contractor/consultant without prior experience and a portfolio that demonstrates you know what you're talking about, which usually means that you have to endure the grunt work as a junior for a few years before you can even consider it.
Based on this thread, I'm kinda glad I've not chosen to go down the compsci route.
Original post by Kvothe the arcane
Based on this thread, I'm kinda glad I've not chosen to go down the compsci route.
Why? Did you not see the people on here making £80-100k after 4 years?
Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by Princepieman
Why? Did you not see the people on here making £80-100k after 4 years?
Posted from TSR Mobile
Posted from TSR Mobile
They appeared to be pretty exceptional. It wasn't just this thread but I do know a fair few unemployed IT-related grads.
I'm only being half serious. But I have spoken to people working in IT who've despaired at the amount of incompetent graduates.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by Kvothe the arcane
They appeared to be pretty exceptional. It wasn't just this thread but I do know a fair few unemployed IT-related grads.
I'm only being half serious. But I have spoken to people working in IT who've despaired at the amount of incompetent graduates.
I'm only being half serious. But I have spoken to people working in IT who've despaired at the amount of incompetent graduates.
On the whole, CS is a solid subject to study; the only difference is if you want to actually go into the field you should be delving into projects/internships before hand.
I wouldn't let any of the stuff here deter people, especially when most of the drivers behind this 'unemployment' are people's prides/inability to improve their skills.
Tech is one of the largest growth sectors around the world. Jobs are there but the graduates aren't always good enough.
Posted from TSR Mobile
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