should university be free but harder to get into?
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What would you say for university's in Scotland which are free for Scottish and Europeans to attend but not English , Northern Irish or welsh people , with some of them being difficult to get into considering they aren't getting £9,000 per student so realistically the teaching should be a lower standard but many surpass English , welsh and northern Irish counterparts
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Bunch of entitled silly kids in this thread.
lel
lel
Original post by JackStenskie
What would you say for university's in Scotland which are free for Scottish and Europeans to attend but not English , Northern Irish or welsh people , with some of them being difficult to get into considering they aren't getting £9,000 per student so realistically the teaching should be a lower standard but many surpass English , welsh and northern Irish counterparts
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In an odd way, I think it might be to the disadvantage of the very abled students in Scotland. For instance, those who are gifted enough to be able to get into the likes of Oxbridge and LSE may end up going to Edinburgh, Glasgow or St Andrews (all perfectly good universities, just not world-beating) instead because it's free - their peers would think they are mad to be taking out so much debt for something that would otherwise be free. I have seen the differences in grade requirments for Scottish students as opposed to RUK students for some Scottish courses and it is rather disgusting - English A level students are able to get into top Scottish courses with considerably lower grades (translating Scottish qualifications to A levels) simply because the English pay them tuition fees. I don't think that's fair for Scots at all.
I got two Ds at Alevel and a pass in my BTEC/NVQ, then worked hard for 5 years to gain the experience I needed to get onto my course (primary education). I don't feel like I deserve to be there any less than those who just came out of sixth form and got better grades than me. I do, however, feel that my course should maybe be more subsidised. No one working as a primary school teacher is ever going to pay off the 27K+ loan in 30 years, so it seems a bit pointless charging so much.
But did you make use of the schlorships and grants and used that to pay for Uni
Nightworld1066
Nightworld1066
YES. Definitely. It's become the norm to have a degree.. which defeats the point of having a degree really doesn't it.. It's a lot of money to pay just to be average. There's so many jobs that don't need degrees and not enough people being encouraged to do them.. never in college did I hear a teacher encourage apprenticeships or manual jobs, the system's pretty screwed .. If it's free and less people go, it'll benefit everybody.
Original post by Pro Crastination
In an odd way, I think it might be to the disadvantage of the very abled students in Scotland. For instance, those who are gifted enough to be able to get into the likes of Oxbridge and LSE may end up going to Edinburgh, Glasgow or St Andrews (all perfectly good universities, just not world-beating) instead because it's free - their peers would think they are mad to be taking out so much debt for something that would otherwise be free. I have seen the differences in grade requirments for Scottish students as opposed to RUK students for some Scottish courses and it is rather disgusting - English A level students are able to get into top Scottish courses with considerably lower grades (translating Scottish qualifications to A levels) simply because the English pay them tuition fees. I don't think that's fair for Scots at all.
I have to agree with you but coming from a pubic school in Glasgow I noticed my peers who could all went to the best uni possible with some going to Cambridge and Berkeley and others of a similar reputation however I also noticed like you pointed out it meant a lot of people didn't even consider another country for uni as it is convenient to go to Scotland as it is close and free , with most of my friends going to Glasgow uni or Strathclyde with a few further a field depending on their course , like for me I study chem eng in Aberdeen which would have been my natural choice as it's in Europe's energy capital and that's what I am looking to go into but for other courses Scotland would probs not be the right place to study , but for the entry requirements I would have to say some are quite hard to get into like when I was applying for uni Glasgow uni and like wise for Strathclyde only accepted five As at higher and I presume Edinburgh and St. Andrews would be higher but then again you have uws which I applied for safety with requirements of BCC at higher so I understand your point I just think from my perspective it is better to leave uni with less debt and a good degree than have tonnes of debt and have a great degree but that's only they people that have the qualifications to get into the good unis in England , I propose the question if you where Scottish or it was just free for everyone is probably a better way to put it rather than just Scottish would you choose to go to one of the top university's in Scotland over a similar standard of uni in England ? It seems like a no brainer even with the extra year , but that's a extra year to enjoy being a student in my eyes
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Original post by iloveteddy14
But did you make use of the schlorships and grants and used that to pay for Uni
Nightworld1066
Nightworld1066
I got the full maintenance loan/grant and I got some money off course fees/bursary from uni, but most people didn't. That was only because I'm an independent student. I will still have a massive debt at the end of it, which most likely won't be fully paid off because of my career choice.
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Original post by Emememily733
it'll benefit everybody.
Convince me how it will benefit all the taxpayers who won't for themselves and for their kids get a chance to go to university so that the likes of you can swan around studying English literature or art history for three years before you join a graduate scheme with barely any usable skills for the industry it which you will be working.
Original post by nulli tertius
Convince me how it will benefit all the taxpayers who won't for themselves and for their kids get a chance to go to university so that the likes of you can swan around studying English literature or art history for three years before you join a graduate scheme with barely any usable skills for the industry it which you will be working.
I would have thought that English ( of all subjects ) has a lot of transferable skills. Art History too for that matter.
Analysis, ability to order one's thoughts, ability to write accurate and persuasive reports, ability to read quickly and accurately, ability to give clear/ interesting speeches, ability to explain your view in understandable language, ability to empathise with others and see things from their point of view, ability to spot when people are trying to pull the wool over your eyes, ie ability to spot rubbish when it's spouted......
Lots of jobs/ industries would be/are delighted to get an English Graduate. And, we're not just thinking of the Creative Industries which are such an important part of our economy.
Think only of eg Law - language ability- written and oral is crucial.
Original post by pickup
I would have thought that English ( of all subjects ) has a lot of transferable skills. Art History too for that matter.
Analysis, ability to order one's thoughts, ability to write accurate and persuasive reports, ability to read quickly and accurately, ability to give clear/ interesting speeches, ability to explain your view in understandable language, ability to empathise with others and see things from their point of view, ability to spot when people are trying to pull the wool over your eyes, ie ability to spot rubbish when it's spouted......
Lots of jobs/ industries would be/are delighted to get an English Graduate. And, we're not just thinking of the Creative Industries which are such an important part of our economy.
Think only of eg Law - language ability- written and oral is crucial.
Analysis, ability to order one's thoughts, ability to write accurate and persuasive reports, ability to read quickly and accurately, ability to give clear/ interesting speeches, ability to explain your view in understandable language, ability to empathise with others and see things from their point of view, ability to spot when people are trying to pull the wool over your eyes, ie ability to spot rubbish when it's spouted......
Lots of jobs/ industries would be/are delighted to get an English Graduate. And, we're not just thinking of the Creative Industries which are such an important part of our economy.
Think only of eg Law - language ability- written and oral is crucial.
Agreed. The majority of core academic subjects have strong transferable skills. People always assume maths is more useful but generally in things such as accountancy the maths is much simpler than what you would learn in a maths degree. More people should look at the skills degrees produce rather than just the content involved
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Original post by pickup
Think only of eg Law - language ability- written and oral is crucial.
Think only of eg Law - language ability- written and oral is crucial.
And most graduates are pretty poor when they arrive.
An experienced legal secretary will produce a far better letter than a newly minted law or arts graduate,
Take a look at this regarding so called transferable skills
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/jobs/10971815/Degrees-losing-attraction-for-smaller-employers.html
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by hellodave5
This. I struggled at school and 6th form insanely. It was only when I was 17-18 I really managed to take control of my own schooling; which was previously as you said determined mostly by extraneous factors.
There are very few 'joke courses' (which is a very unfair term generally); as they simply wouldn't survive if they show no results. A degree is a degree in my opinion; albeit some providing more transferable skills than others. So I agree with that point you made too.
There are very few 'joke courses' (which is a very unfair term generally); as they simply wouldn't survive if they show no results. A degree is a degree in my opinion; albeit some providing more transferable skills than others. So I agree with that point you made too.
"A degree is a degree"
I disagree. When so many courses are being offered, there's bound to be humongous differences between at least some of them, whether that be academic difficulty or employability. Just take a look at the employment rates for a film studies degree compared to that of a medicine/allied healthcare degree, or a teaching degree, or a law degree.
Original post by plasmaman
"A degree is a degree"
I disagree. When so many courses are being offered, there's bound to be humongous differences between at least some of them, whether that be academic difficulty or employability. Just take a look at the employment rates for a film studies degree compared to that of a medicine/allied healthcare degree, or a teaching degree, or a law degree.
I disagree. When so many courses are being offered, there's bound to be humongous differences between at least some of them, whether that be academic difficulty or employability. Just take a look at the employment rates for a film studies degree compared to that of a medicine/allied healthcare degree, or a teaching degree, or a law degree.
That is true. There is some variance, particularly between subjects. In most subjects there is standardisation of grades through certain regulatory bodies (though some have it bad, such as maths, I hear).
With something like film, you would be relying on 'extra-curricular' to get you into employment; whereas the others would give you a respectable job through training.
I'm not sure what I think to teaching degrees; as you don't need them to do teaching and they limit your choices past teaching. But yeah; I see what you mean.
My point is, I suppose, that all degrees are very difficult and challenging and should be respected as such. I find the notion of a 'mickey mouse' degree really offensive.
Original post by hellodave5
That is true. There is some variance, particularly between subjects. In most subjects there is standardisation of grades through certain regulatory bodies (though some have it bad, such as maths, I hear).
With something like film, you would be relying on 'extra-curricular' to get you into employment; whereas the others would give you a respectable job through training.
I'm not sure what I think to teaching degrees; as you don't need them to do teaching and they limit your choices past teaching. But yeah; I see what you mean.
My point is, I suppose, that all degrees are very difficult and challenging and should be respected as such. I find the notion of a 'mickey mouse' degree really offensive.
With something like film, you would be relying on 'extra-curricular' to get you into employment; whereas the others would give you a respectable job through training.
I'm not sure what I think to teaching degrees; as you don't need them to do teaching and they limit your choices past teaching. But yeah; I see what you mean.
My point is, I suppose, that all degrees are very difficult and challenging and should be respected as such. I find the notion of a 'mickey mouse' degree really offensive.
I agree with the teaching bit, but not sure if I agree that "all degrees are very difficult and challenging". Of course that depends on individual talents.
Original post by nulli tertius
And most graduates are pretty poor when they arrive.
An experienced legal secretary will produce a far better letter than a newly minted law or arts graduate,
( not necessarily in my experience)
Take a look at this regarding so called transferable skills
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/jobs/10971815/Degrees-losing-attraction-for-smaller-employers.html
An experienced legal secretary will produce a far better letter than a newly minted law or arts graduate,
( not necessarily in my experience)
Take a look at this regarding so called transferable skills
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/jobs/10971815/Degrees-losing-attraction-for-smaller-employers.html
So let's see what was said.
.... according to research from business development consultancy Sandler Training.
The research found academic qualifications are losing out to practical skills which can deliver more tangible effects on a business.
Shaun Thomson, chief executive of Sandler Training UK, said: “Following the economic downturn it really has been an employer’s market. Employers have been far more focused on what skills new recruits can bring to the table.
“This is especially true with small businesses, when a poor recruit can have a bigger impact. Unfortunately this onus on skills has been on ‘hard skills’ – which is why we believe the value of a degree is falling.”
However, Mr Thomson said he hoped SMEs’ focus would change as the economy picks up with soft skills regaining recognition.
“In our experience, successful recruitment has much more correlation with candidates’ soft skills – which young people can demonstrate through the diligence and commitment that goes hand-in-hand with achieving good exam results and degrees,” said Mr Thomson.
The research also found graduates are slightly less likely to be hired than apprentices, with SMEs splitting their preference for filling entry-level positions 51pc to 49pc in favour of those taking the vocational training path.
Of the 21pc of SMEs questioned that had taken on a young person recently, 56pc said it had not worked out well, with 38pc saying the new employee did not have the right skills, 35pc saying they did not have the right attitude and 26pc were left frustrated because the young person did not stay very long with the business.
Mr Thomson added: “There is a stalemate between SMEs and government, which is being perpetuated by the bad experiences that many small businesses are having when recruiting young people... but rather than tarring young people with the same brush and passing the buck to government, small businesses must step up and take responsibility.”
To summarise he is saying that SMEs are 'unfortunately 'wrong in recruiting ( as you would recommend ) for hard skills and that this is why they have been disappointed. He recommends that they recruit for the soft skills which graduates have.
This confirms what I have said , doesn't it - a recruitment professional is saying that SMEs have got it wrong.
Original post by pickup
I would have thought that English ( of all subjects ) has a lot of transferable skills. Art History too for that matter.
Analysis, ability to order one's thoughts, ability to write accurate and persuasive reports, ability to read quickly and accurately, ability to give clear/ interesting speeches, ability to explain your view in understandable language, ability to empathise with others and see things from their point of view, ability to spot when people are trying to pull the wool over your eyes, ie ability to spot rubbish when it's spouted......
Lots of jobs/ industries would be/are delighted to get an English Graduate. And, we're not just thinking of the Creative Industries which are such an important part of our economy.
Think only of eg Law - language ability- written and oral is crucial.
Analysis, ability to order one's thoughts, ability to write accurate and persuasive reports, ability to read quickly and accurately, ability to give clear/ interesting speeches, ability to explain your view in understandable language, ability to empathise with others and see things from their point of view, ability to spot when people are trying to pull the wool over your eyes, ie ability to spot rubbish when it's spouted......
Lots of jobs/ industries would be/are delighted to get an English Graduate. And, we're not just thinking of the Creative Industries which are such an important part of our economy.
Think only of eg Law - language ability- written and oral is crucial.
You really don't need an English degree to be able to order your thoughts, argue your point eloquently and use accurate written expression.
Original post by plasmaman
"A degree is a degree"
I disagree. When so many courses are being offered, there's bound to be humongous differences between at least some of them, whether that be academic difficulty or employability. Just take a look at the employment rates for a film studies degree compared to that of a medicine/allied healthcare degree, or a teaching degree, or a law degree.
I disagree. When so many courses are being offered, there's bound to be humongous differences between at least some of them, whether that be academic difficulty or employability. Just take a look at the employment rates for a film studies degree compared to that of a medicine/allied healthcare degree, or a teaching degree, or a law degree.
But largely the problem is this;
what the OP wants to do away with is likely to be courses like International Spa management at Derby but he wouldn't want to touch English Lit at Manchester
Look at the employability figures (not just the 6 months one, but the salary 40 months from graduation)
https://unistats.direct.gov.uk/subjects/employment/10007851FT-B3503/ReturnTo/Search
https://unistats.direct.gov.uk/subjects/employment/10007798FT-261/ReturnTo/Search
If we are cutting back courses of little economic benefit; then it is the students of Beowulf in Manchester rather than bikini waxes in Buxton that should be culled.
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