Woman secretly films men catcalling and confronts them

I don't get this crap at all.

If a woman 'catcalled' me, it'd be weird, but I wouldn't care. I cannot understand why anyone would! If, as those cards suggest, one comment on your appearance from a stranger can ruin a good day (the card with a sun on it), then I'd think you've got bigger issues to worry about.

Reply 6

Original post by FireGarden

I don't get this crap at all.

If a woman 'catcalled' me, it'd be weird, but I wouldn't care. I cannot understand why anyone would! If, as those cards suggest, one comment on your appearance from a stranger can ruin a good day (the card with a sun on it), then I'd think you've got bigger issues to worry about.

Let me ask you this, if a woman cat-called you do you have any reason to be scared of any interaction that may follow?

Because that is a large reason of why I hate being cat-called, it scares me. And you can tell me all you want about how I shouldn't be scared, but if I'm walking down the street alone and there aren't many people around and some guy starts coming up behind me telling me I have a fine ass it reminds me how vulnerable I am because it would be extremely easy for that man to assault me there and then on the spot.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say you don;t get scared or feel vulnerable if a woman tells you you have a nice ass on the street because you could probably defend yourself against her if she decided to attack you, I on the other-hand cannot.

Reply 7

forfrosne

7

Original post by FireGarden

I don't get this crap at all.

If a woman 'catcalled' me, it'd be weird, but I wouldn't care. I cannot understand why anyone would! If, as those cards suggest, one comment on your appearance from a stranger can ruin a good day (the card with a sun on it), then I'd think you've got bigger issues to worry about.

I'm really sick of how every thread like this ends up. Every time the issue of cat-calling comes up the thread is full of women explaining why it's a serious and very real issue that they deal with on a daily basis and men like you telling them how they should feel about it. Just... stop, listen to what they are saying and take it on board. Don't tell actual victims of this how they ought to feel or respond to them, and don't try and invalidate or de-legitimise their actual experiences of it. These threads about women's issues always become an echo chamber of women with actual experience of the issues at hand being shouted over by men who think they have the right to tell women how they should feel and react to these things, even though they've almost never had these same experiences. I don't pretend to have a complete understanding of the struggles women face, but that's why I don't presume to tell them how they ought to feel about it.

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 8

Original post by SophieSmall

if I'm walking down the street alone and there aren't many people around and some guy starts coming up behind me telling me I have a fine ass it reminds me how vulnerable I am

Exactly. The catcall alone means nothing about your actual safety. I'd even go further and suggest the men who might physically assault women are more likely those who don't catcall; why draw any attention to themselves? There's of course a difference between feeling safe and actually being safe. Now catcalling may not be nice because it makes you feel unsafe (and I agree that's totally justified), but the truth is, with or without it, the world isn't much different..

Reply 9

Original post by FireGarden

Exactly. The catcall alone means nothing about your actual safety. I'd even go further and suggest the men who might physically assault women are more likely those who don't catcall; why draw any attention to themselves? There's of course a difference between feeling safe and actually being safe. Now catcalling may not be nice because it makes you feel unsafe (and I agree that's totally justified), but the truth is, with or without it, the world isn't much different..

You'd actual be mistaken in that those who catcall don't assault as I have had cat callers also slap me on the ass, I've also had them follow me. Now that seems pretty unsafe to me.

Cat-calling is just not acceptable. And it's funny how no matter how many women say the men who do it still don't listen.

It may not be different for you, but it certainly would positively change many women lives if cat calling stopped. I for one could step out the front door and go for a walk on my own feeling safe for a change.

Reply 10

Original post by forfrosne

I'm really sick of how every thread like this ends up. Every time the issue of cat-calling comes up the thread is full of women explaining why it's a serious and very real issue that they deal with on a daily basis and white men like you telling them how they should feel about it. Just... stop, listen to what they are saying and take it on board. Don't tell actual victims of this how they ought to feel or respond to them, and don't try and invalidate or de-legitimise their actual experiences of it.

Read my other reply. Maybe that has better reasons to think that catcalling is almost like a decoy issue for the real problem.

Reply 11

garfeeled

16

Original post by FireGarden

I don't get this crap at all.

If a woman 'catcalled' me, it'd be weird, but I wouldn't care. I cannot understand why anyone would! If, as those cards suggest, one comment on your appearance from a stranger can ruin a good day (the card with a sun on it), then I'd think you've got bigger issues to worry about.

think of it like this. If a man cat called you. How would you feel.

Reply 12

Original post by SophieSmall

You'd actual be mistaken in that those who catcall don't assault as I have had cat callers also slap me on the ass, I've also had them follow me. Now that seems pretty unsafe to me.

Cat-calling is just not acceptable. And it's funny how no matter how many women say the men who do it still don't listen.

It may not be different for you, but it certainly would positively change many women lives if cat calling stopped. I for one could step out the front door and go for a walk on my own feeling safe for a change.

I don't think you addressed the issue I have. Feeling safe is not being safe. So the first paragraph, fair enough, that's not something anyone should have to deal with, but people keeping their mouths shut doesn't stop it.

Perhaps think of it like a disease. If you've got a cold, you can take decongestants so you don't feel ill. You're still ill. If catcalling stopped, women would still get followed, etc. People are like "omg stop catcalling" when that isn't the issue, but only a symptom of the issue. And just like medicine, treating symptoms does not treat the disease.

Reply 13

DiddyDec01

3

Not once I have ever left the house and feared for my safety even though statically I am more likely to be a victim of violent crime than a women. Not only that but a single young man which is the most dangerous category to be in. It is estimated that 11% of men between the age of 16-24 have been a victim of a violent crime. And to add to that more than 2 thirds of homicide victims are male.

But with this in mind, have I ever feared for my safety? No. Someone coming towards you looking dodgy or drunk? Just ignore them. It is completely irrational fear based on what the media tells you. If you are sensible nothing will happen to you.

Reply 14

Original post by FireGarden

I don't think you addressed the issue I have. Feeling safe is not being safe. So the first paragraph, fair enough, that's not something anyone should have to deal with, but people keeping their mouths shut doesn't stop it.

Perhaps think of it like a disease. If you've got a cold, you can take decongestants so you don't feel ill. You're still ill. If catcalling stopped, women would still get followed, etc. People are like "omg stop catcalling" when that isn't the issue, but only a symptom of the issue. And just like medicine, treating symptoms does not treat the disease.

I'm sorry are you implying me feeling unsafe is not an issue? Because quite frankly it did used to **** with my mental health and triggers quite a lot of anxiety. But hey as long as men can cat call what does it matter?

You're saying that cat-calling in itself is not an issue, but I think it is. It may not be the whole issue but it's part of it, if a man thinks he can start yelling profanities at women on the street and telling them what he'd like to do to them that's not that far off following them or assaulting them on the street, it's just another step towards it.

Reply 15

forfrosne

7

Original post by FireGarden

I don't think you addressed the issue I have. Feeling safe is not being safe. So the first paragraph, fair enough, that's not something anyone should have to deal with, but people keeping their mouths shut doesn't stop it.

Perhaps think of it like a disease. If you've got a cold, you can take decongestants so you don't feel ill. You're still ill. If catcalling stopped, women would still get followed, etc. People are like "omg stop catcalling" when that isn't the issue, but only a symptom of the issue. And just like medicine, treating symptoms does not treat the disease.

Again you're telling an actual victim of catcalling how they are supposed to feel about that experience. You've got no idea if she was actually safe or not, you've never been subject to this sort of stuff. Many, many women can testify that they've been sexually assaulted by cat-callers. And it doesn't even matter if she's actually unsafe or not: the whole point here is that the cat-calling makes her feel unsafe, and that's an emotionally and psychologically distressing experience in and of itself regardless of whether it's accompanied by physical sexual abuse. Cat-calling is a symptom of a deeper underlying misogyny, yes, but we need to address its actual manifestations in the real world as well as the underlying causes.

Original post by DiddyDec

Not once I have ever left the house and feared for my safety even though statically I am more likely to be a victim of violent crime than a women. Not only that but a single young man which is the most dangerous category to be in. It is estimated that 11% of men between the age of 16-24 have been a victim of a violent crime. And to add to that more than 2 thirds of homicide victims are male.

But with this in mind, have I ever feared for my safety? No. Someone coming towards you looking dodgy or drunk? Just ignore them. It is completely irrational fear based on what the media tells you. If you are sensible nothing will happen to you.

We aren't talking about violent crime though, we're talking about public harassment and sexual assault. And if we're going to bring statistics into this, between 70-99% of all women experience street harassment at some point in their life.

The consequences? "The long-term impacts include depression, anxiety, and post-traumatic stress disorder, as well as a reduced sense of safety that can limit earnings, decrease mobility, and interrupt their ability to fully engage with civic life."

On top of that if you look at the compilation of research they use there's another conclusion: "Gallup data from surveys in 143 countries in 2011 show that in those countries, including Italy, France, Australia, and the U.S., men are considerably more likely than women to say they feel safe walking alone at night in their communities."

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 16

Original post by SophieSmall

I'm sorry are you implying me feeling unsafe is not an issue? Because quite frankly it did used to **** with my mental health and triggers quite a lot of anxiety. But hey as long as men can cat call what does it matter?

I'm not implying that at all. The implication is that if you're not safe, feeling safe doesn't make you any better off.

You're saying that cat-calling in itself is not an issue, but I think it is. It may not be the whole issue but it's part of it, if a man thinks he can start yelling profanities at women on the street and telling them what he'd like to do to them that's not that far off following them or assaulting them on the street, it's just another step towards it.

Well we agree then, that it's part of a bigger issue. My whole point is, even if men stopped this behaviour, nothing else would change.

Reply 17

Original post by FireGarden

I'm not implying that at all. The implication is that if you're not safe, feeling safe doesn't make you any better off.

Well we agree then, that it's part of a bigger issue. My whole point is, even if men stopped this behaviour, nothing else would change.

I disagree, stopping this behaviour would be educating the men who do it about WHY it is wrong. Maybe if they understood that they would be less inclined to follow up with assaults. As I'm sure a lot of the guy who seem to think it's okay to slap my ass think it's a compliment just like a lot of the guys who cat call think I should take that as a compliment to.

And being able to feel safe outside the house would change things for women who hate this particular issue.

Reply 18

Original post by forfrosne

Again you're telling an actual victim of catcalling how they are supposed to feel about that experience.

I didn't say how she should have felt. Which part do you think implied this?

And it doesn't even matter if she's actually unsafe or not: the whole point here is that the cat-calling makes her feel unsafe, and that's an emotionally and psychologically distressing experience in and of itself regardless of whether it's accompanied by physical sexual abuse.

This is all out backwards, to be honest. She could feel as secure as to believe no ill could ever befall her by going outside. That won't stop a rapist. Hence, feeling safe is no benefit when the problem exists. The way I see it goes: Catcalling stops -> she feels safe -> may still be sexually harassed regardless.

Cat-calling is a symptom of a deeper underlying misogyny, yes, but we need to address its actual manifestations in the real world as well as the underlying causes.

I don't believe treating symptoms treats the disease. It's a lot of effort which is, apparently as we see in those videos, not working. Treat the underlying issue and it's all gone.

Reply 19