Application to Grammar School

Tronickus

At QEGS (Queen Elizabeth's Grammar School) they have fees which are like the same as being at uni (my dad actually thought it would be cheaper my brother going to uni then going to qegs).

Most grammar schools are ancient, but mine is, as you say, independant, and does charge (unlike Clitheroe which is free, but still calls itself a grammar school).

Are you on about the Queen Elizabeth School that calls itself a Grammar but i actually a comprehensive state in derbyshire???

Anyway why go to a Grammar School when a lot are out-preformed by good state schools?

Reply 21

Tronickus

x_emme_x

Are you on about the Queen Elizabeth School that calls itself a Grammar but i actually a comprehensive state in derbyshire???

Anyway why go to a Grammar School when a lot are out-preformed by good state schools?

Nope, I'm on about the one in Blackburn in Lancashire, which usually comes second in results and stuff in the area, with first being Westholme, an all girls school, so its not an out-performed one.

Reply 22

Kolya

17

x_emme_x

Anyway why go to a Grammar School when a lot are out-preformed by good state schools?

*bangs head repeatedly against desk*
Did you even read my previous post?

Reply 23

mtbab

17

check what each school tests you one, coz in in birmingham my school did Maths and Non Verbal, whereas other school simply had Maths, or Maths,Nonverbal and Verbal, and one i think just had Verbal lol

Reply 24

Bape

2

Hey in response to the OP, does your bro actually want to go to a grammar? I used to go to one and i underachieved to say the least (gcses 3 A's, 3 B's and 3 C's) and it wasnt exactly a school where you would have a great time. Far too regimented for me, whilst im sure many other did like it. When i left to an F.E. college which is pretty much the other end of the spectrum from my previous school, i actually started enjoying my education again and did much better at AS (aaab). Imo, grammar school should be something your brother should decide to do for himself if he wants to instead of being told do do it because it'll be good for him.

Reply 25

thefish_uk

14

mtbab

check what each school tests you one, coz in in birmingham my school did Maths and Non Verbal, whereas other school simply had Maths, or Maths,Nonverbal and Verbal, and one i think just had Verbal lol

My school did Non Verbal and Verbal when I joined it but I think they have a Maths one now? Apparently one year they totally dumped the format that everyone had been expecting from previous years and changed the exam by surprise to try and catch out the people who had been coached too much for the specific questions they thought would be asked.

The main difference between a grammar school and a comprehensive school is attitude, I think... at a grammar school everybody supposedly has a wanting-to-learn attitude so there is less disruption etc. leading to a better education (supposedly).

At mine I think you could tell the people who had extensive coaching because they were the ones who began to struggle. There's nothing wrong with doing some practice papers to be familiar with the kinds of questions asked but expensive Saturday morning lessons are not necessary... harsh it might sound but if you're not good enough to get in, you'll just struggle when you get there.

Also make sure he chooses the school as the one he wants to go to - people at a grammar school are supposed to want to be there. If they are enthusiastic enough to want to pass the 11+ and get in, they will probably do better.

Reply 26

mtbab

17

thefish_uk

My school did Non Verbal and Verbal when I joined it but I think they have a Maths one now? Apparently one year they totally dumped the format that everyone had been expecting from previous years and changed the exam by surprise to try and catch out the people who had been coached too much for the specific questions they thought would be asked.

The main difference between a grammar school and a comprehensive school is attitude, I think... at a grammar school everybody supposedly has a wanting-to-learn attitude so there is less disruption etc. leading to a better education (supposedly).

At mine I think you could tell the people who had extensive coaching because they were the ones who began to struggle. There's nothing wrong with doing some practice papers to be familiar with the kinds of questions asked but expensive Saturday morning lessons are not necessary... harsh it might sound but if you're not good enough to get in, you'll just struggle when you get there.

Also make sure he chooses the school as the one he wants to go to - people at a grammar school are supposed to want to be there. If they are enthusiastic enough to want to pass the 11+ and get in, they will probably do better.

which school did u go to? (i noticed ure a brummie lol)

Reply 27

quintsy

17

I go to a state grammar school, and I thought "Admission Impossible" was a slight misrepresentation of the process of getting into one. In my area there are 8 selective schools; four for males and four for females. To get in, all you need to do is get a high enough mark in your 11+. We didn't have to apply to the school directly- you do it through the consortium of schools.

Don't be put off by what they showed on the programme- unless it's a private grammar school, you're unlikely to have to apply directly to the school telling them your interests.. hobbies etc; involving them picking you on the basis of your application as well as your test results.

You could get a tutor, but I never had one. WHSmiths and other bookshops sell the standard 11+ practice papers, and you could also talk to your brother's teachers, or the consortium for guidelines.

Good luck! :smile:

Reply 28

ACF99

Tronickus

I went to Grammar school, still do in fact, going to the sixth form actually. Where I leave in East Lancashire, you will find that nearly all the towns have/had a grammar school (or independant school like mine is). Bolton, Bury, Manchester, Blackburn (even Darwen and Burnley had one!), and each differ with difficulty in getting in, due to their reputation (Bolton is tough to get in, whereas QEGS in blackburn is alright, where i go to).

I'm at Bolton, and know the schools in the area quite well. Bolton's fees, for information, are around £8-8500 p.a. with a good number of bursaries available. Would happily recommend the school, very strong all-round academic education with lavish extra-curricular provision.

Reply 29

Scrub

Is it going to be a private grammar school?
I go a grammar school but in my area (Trafford) we still have either High Schools or if you pass the 11+ grammar schools. Im at a grammar school but I know people who went to the High schools and they did well as well; to be honest what ever school you go to you have to want to work! Even at a grammar school if you don't want to work you won't do as well as you possibly could...ye they may push you more etc but in the end its up to the individual!

And for practice papers go to WHSmiths (I work on the book department and the Bond practice papers are the most popular for 11+, for separate exam papers for entrance exams for schools you'll have to contact the schools directly cause you can't actually buy entrance exam papers; well not that I know of or the system at work knows of!)

Reply 30

thefish_uk

14

mtbab

which school did u go to? (i noticed ure a brummie lol)

King Edwards Five Ways

Yes our application was made to the King Edwards Foundation (5 schools in total) and was based solely on what was basically an IQ test.

As I understand it schools are banned from interviewing for secondary school places which is very good!

Reply 31

Pippak

10

Different schools have different practice papers. NFER ones are very popular too.

OP: This might sound bitchy, but judging by your posts are you sure you're the best person to coach him in English? As everyone's been saying, make sure it's what he wants to do, but also remember (as you should have seen from that program) that the more pressure you put on him the worse it'll be.

Reply 32

worldwide

1

going to a grammar school can be simply the best thing for many people: I know people that could have go one, but chose not to sit the 11+ and have suffered because of it. Don't coach him too much for the 11+ - encourage him to read and look at the world around him. That way, if he gets in, he'll deserve it and it will be the best thing for him. Going to a grammar school encourages modesty, not arrogance.
As for the competition, don't worry about it. The tests are pretty good at showing who deserves their place - in every year maybe there are one or two that don't - if he gets in, brilliant - if he doesn't, it probably wasn't for him.

Oh, and private schools like Bristol Grammar School are not grammar schools. They are ex-grammars that have become private schools and retained their names, presumably to sound like they are state-funded.

Reply 33

arpeggio

12

If he's in Year 5, then now is probably the best time to begin preparation for the 11+. If you want to tutor him yourself then you can buy numerous practice books and papers from bookshops or places like WHSmith - however it's probably best to find out what the exam entails before buying everything (e.g. in my area the 11+ tests Maths, English and Verbal Reasoning, so there'd be no need to buy Non-Verbal Reasoning books.) Timed past papers are an excellent way to improve (make sure you go through questions he got wrong afterwards.)

For Maths - have a look over the kind of questions that are asked. The likelihood is that some topics, such as adding/subtracting fractions, aren't taught at your brother's primary school so you'll need to teach them to him from scratch. Make sure that you're OK on your long division etc (which I expect you are since you're doing Maths at uni :p:

) so that you can help him as much as possible.

For English - get your brother to read one or two classics (not too difficult ones; maybe things such as Jane Eyre?) to get used to the more advanced vocabulary that'll come up in the comprehension.

For Verbal Reasoning - this can only really be improved by practice - it's mainly logic puzzles and things like codes. When I took the exam (although it might have changed since then), this was the most important since it accounted for half of the overall marks.

I've found going to a grammar school to be a really positive experience. However, it's not for everyone and you need to make sure that you're not putting unnecessary pressure on your brother. I might have a few old 11+ books/papers somewhere, and I've been through the whole exam preparation/tuition thing myself, so if you want to talk to someone about it then feel free to PM me :smile:

Reply 34

Couldxbe

16

This is going to sound horrible, but if he needs coaching to go to a grammar school then maybe he doesn't belong there. The tests are meant to separate between the clever and average people at SATs level, rather than the ones who have been coached. They are designed specifically to see who has the required amount of natural ability to do well in the school.

I'm saying this because I did entrance exams for a grammar school (which in the end I decided not to go to in favour of a comp) and did no 'revision' whatsoever for it. To me, it was no different to any other quiz I had in primary school, and treated it like that and yet I still managed to get in. The same goes for all of my friends.

Reply 35

kellywood_5

17

Couldxbe

I'm saying this because I did entrance exams for a grammar school (which in the end I decided not to go to in favour of a comp) and did no 'revision' whatsoever for it. To me, it was no different to any other quiz I had in primary school, and treated it like that and yet I still managed to get in. The same goes for all of my friends.

I mentioned in my previous post that I went to an absolutely awful primary school and had no prepation for the 11+ other than a few practice papers my parents bought me, but I still passed, although I too ended up choosing a comp instead. A friend of mine at a really good primary school where they had a special coaching session with the head every week failed. So coaching doesn't always work.

Reply 36

arpeggio

12

I see what you're saying, but there are things (particularly on the Maths paper) that are simply not covered in some primary schools. Someone could easily have the ability, but how are they going to know what to do in the exam if they haven't been taught the technique? People may be born with natural ability, but they're not born knowing exactly how to do things like long multiplication...

Reply 37

Couldxbe

16

If I remember correctly, I was taught long multiplication and division in primary school. it depends where you are what test you're given, e.g. around Liverpool the 11+ isn't used so the grammar schools made up their own tests. Obviously, they can't include things that the majority of pupils haven't been taught, so they chose harder questions which make people think. However, I have no idea if the 11+ has more things on the syllabus than in KS2. I was just commenting on my own experience.

Reply 38

Sasuke!

OP

14

anyone know where i can get free sample papers of the 11+?

Reply 39

mtbab

17

Death Eater

anyone know where i can get free sample papers of the 11+?

they are ususally just non-verbal stuff or verbal reasoning or maths, you can get like verbal reasoning comprehension books and maths stuff etc etc from Smiths.

Application to Grammar School

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