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Game Design or Computer Science? Opinions please :)

Hey,

I'm applying for uni in 2015 and all I've ever wanted was to make games. At the moment I am learning how to program in C# and making my own games already but I want a career out of it, hence the desire for a degree.

I've seen a lot of opinions on the matter and I'm trying to decide whether to do computer science or to do an actual game related degree. Which do you guys think would be more beneficial? (Bare in mind I'm pretty awful at Maths in general, but I am a fast learner.)

Cheers!

George
Reply 1
I am in a similar boat, though not quite the same. For games and all work places experience is the best thing. A Computer Science degree will help you get your foot in the door in many jobs but if you're 100% certain all you'll want to do is games then I recommend you take a look at these courses, they're first of their kind and will help you with getting a career in games.

http://www.uclan.ac.uk/courses/mcomp_computer_games_development.php

This course not only gets you an undergraduate Masters degree, but you also spend a year in industry working for a games company. This is the most vital aspect for any career, experience.

http://www.shu.ac.uk/prospectus/course/800/

This course also gets you an undergraduate Masters degree and a year in industry, but is also accredited by both BCS and Creative Skill set. It's also been awarded PlayStation First status, which gives them access to the latest dev kits and SDK's. They also have a game studio and can help publish your games.

Conclusion:
Computer Science degree
Computer Science has a lot of maths. A degree in Computer Science will give you a broad knowledge on all aspects of Computers and Computing and is the most respected. You will also be able to move to other industries such as security, networks and such. But will it give you the skills to go straight into games? No, it will provide you with the ability to learn that yourself. It will however help you get a job, as a Computer Science degree is the standard for most game careers (Except where experience is present, this beats any degree). However you will find that a lot of these careers will also ask for a 'Computer Science or equivalent' degree so you will not be left behind when it comes to your game career with the games degree.

Games degree
These courses also have quite a bit of maths but nothing compared to Computer Science. While these courses are quite specific in the career paths you can take and the universities aren't quite the best rank wise for Computer Science, their courses are useful for a games career and will give you the skill set and experience you need for a career in games development. Also, as I said earlier, the experience in working for a game company will be the most invaluable part of your degree.

If you do decide to do these games courses, I would say do the Sheffield course. As I said earlier, they are Accredited by both BCS and Creative Skill Set, have links with Sony, have PlayStation First status and have a game studio there which can help you publish your game.

I myself won't be going to university for two years (I am a slight mature student) and I was trying to decide whether to do a Computer Science degree at University of Birmingham or Kings College London (Dependent on acceptance that is) or the games one from Sheffield. There is a major difference in rankings, even the degrees. Yet they all appealed to me, so I was in a similar boat. Though, I am going to go with the Computer Science courses because of the variety, modules, respectability and prospects among other various reasons.
(edited 9 years ago)
Don't be an idiot. Don't do a gaming degree. Games programmers are expected to have a thorough understanding of engineering mathematics (such as geometry and linear algebra), parallel architecture (such as concurrency and GPU programming), networking, artificial intellegence and graphics APIs. They also see electronic engineering and computer science degrees far superior than game-related degrees for the reasons just mentioned.

CS does little to no maths. Do an electronic engineering degree if you want to do university level maths and programming. All technology related courses (electronic/electronic and computing/computer science/digital media engineering) cover the requirements of an engine/gameplay programmer. When a games company came to my university to do a talk, they said they value engineers for their maths backgrounds and computer science for their algorithm knowledge... no mention of games degrees at all.

Even as an electronic engineer I've learned C/C++ (essential for games), C#, Java and openGL, all of which are industry standard languages for gaming. If you do CS you will learn the additional scripting languages on top such as perl and python.

In addition to this do a 12-month placement, companies like Lionhead offer this to engineering/computer science courses for their third year, if your university allows you to do this.

I would like to re-emphasise this... please don't take a games specific course. It may also be good for you to know how unsecure games programming is as a job... 20% of programmers were sacked last year, of which only 40% of that could find another job (Gamasutra statistics released last week). What would you do with a games degree in this scenario? The dole won't support your kids.

Background: Electronic and Computer engineering graduate looking for gaming jobs.

Luke
(edited 9 years ago)
I disagree that Computer Science students do little to no maths. A third of my CompSci course in Year 1 and 2 is maths.
Reply 4
Original post by lukemtesta
Don't be an idiot. Don't do a gaming degree. Games programmers are expected to have a thorough understanding of engineering mathematics (such as geometry and linear algebra), parallel architecture (such as concurrency and GPU programming), networking, artificial intellegence and graphics APIs. They also see electronic engineering and computer science degrees far superior than game-related degrees for the reasons just mentioned.

CS does little to no maths. Do an electronic engineering degree if you want to do university level maths and programming. All technology related courses (electronic/electronic and computing/computer science/digital media engineering) cover the requirements of an engine/gameplay programmer. When a games company came to my university to do a talk, they said they value engineers for their maths backgrounds and computer science for their algorithm knowledge... no mention of games degrees at all.

Even as an electronic engineer I've learned C/C++ (essential for games), C#, Java and openGL, all of which are industry standard languages for gaming. If you do CS you will learn the additional scripting languages on top such as perl and python.

In addition to this do a 12-month placement, companies like Lionhead offer this to engineering/computer science courses for their third year, if your university allows you to do this.

I would like to re-emphasise this... please don't take a games specific course. It may also be good for you to know how unsecure games programming is as a job... 20% of programmers were sacked last year, of which only 40% of that could find another job (Gamasutra statistics released last week). What would you do with a games degree in this scenario? The dole won't support your kids.

Background: Electronic and Computer engineering graduate looking for gaming jobs.

Luke


The majority of Computer Science contains Maths. Also, most game companies require a Computer Science degree or equivalent to work there. for most computer related careers CS > Electronic Engineering.
I also said that CS would be the smart choice and the best option to take, however the games degree I said about does have it's bonuses such as links with Sony and being able to use a PS4 dev kit before most other people. There are a lot of people who can thrive in this environment but may not be able to handle the amount of maths in a CS and Electronic Engineering degree as these have much more maths than necessary.
Also, try not to do a joint degree if you want an in depth knowledge, to accommodate the other half of the degree, half of the in depth modules are traded for the basic modules of the other subject in the joint degree.
(edited 9 years ago)
CS maths is so insignificant compared to other degrees, which is why the industry considers engineers to be the mathematicians and the computer scientists to be the programmers. I didn't say CS was not the choice, but if you are interested in doing maths and programming electronic and computer engineering is a better choice for you (when I say we do maths, I mean 75% of modules every year has heavy maths, thats a course that does maths, not one or 2 modules in 4 years).

The thing is an internship is better than having those links. I know 5 people who worked at Sony in Basingstoke, 3 of which in their C++ research department, plus a few people at Lionhead studio, who have come out with confirmed positions before final year - Don't choose a course because of the links the course may have - you can make these yourself, just takes a bit of effort. Choose a course because you have interest in the modules you are taking. Thats how I ended up wanting to pursue gaming, not because I thought it was cool. If you are that worried about employment choose a sandwich course, 80-90% of my year were offered permanent positions on finising their placement year.
Reply 6
Original post by lukemtesta
CS maths is so insignificant compared to other degrees, which is why the industry considers engineers to be the mathematicians and the computer scientists to be the programmers. I didn't say CS was not the choice, but if you are interested in doing maths and programming electronic and computer engineering is a better choice for you (when I say we do maths, I mean 75% of modules every year has heavy maths, thats a course that does maths, not one or 2 modules in 4 years).

The thing is an internship is better than having those links. I know 5 people who worked at Sony in Basingstoke, 3 of which in their C++ research department, plus a few people at Lionhead studio, who have come out with confirmed positions before final year - Don't choose a course because of the links the course may have - you can make these yourself, just takes a bit of effort. Choose a course because you have interest in the modules you are taking. Thats how I ended up wanting to pursue gaming, not because I thought it was cool. If you are that worried about employment choose a sandwich course, 80-90% of my year were offered permanent positions on finising their placement year.


Take a look at some CS courses at institutions other than where you did your degree. They're fairly heavy on the maths in CS, especially top 5-10. CS will prepare you a hell of a lot better for Game Design (and teach you the relevant maths, as long as you're getting a degree from a decent uni) than EE.
Original post by Damask-
Take a look at some CS courses at institutions other than where you did your degree. They're fairly heavy on the maths in CS, especially top 5-10. CS will prepare you a hell of a lot better for Game Design (and teach you the relevant maths, as long as you're getting a degree from a decent uni) than EE.


I went to a top 5 institution. I didn't say CS won't prepare you for game design - I said if you are interested in the maths take an ECE course to have the same route. Both of these pathways are significantly better than doing a games-related degree. Well at least in my institution the computer graphics modules for ECE was riddled with linear algebra, motion models and Jacbians etc. while CS just had to render an object utilising the stencil buffer.
(edited 9 years ago)
Reply 8
Original post by xleoanimusx
Hey,

I'm applying for uni in 2015 and all I've ever wanted was to make games. At the moment I am learning how to program in C# and making my own games already but I want a career out of it, hence the desire for a degree.

I've seen a lot of opinions on the matter and I'm trying to decide whether to do computer science or to do an actual game related degree. Which do you guys think would be more beneficial? (Bare in mind I'm pretty awful at Maths in general, but I am a fast learner.)

Cheers!

George



A. Good on you buddy for taking steps already

B. I'm on the same damn boat as you mate. I am learning C++ and Python with the exact same intent. Do a Comp Sci degree for one reason, people change, I have, you will, we all will. And one day you might wake up with a degree in game design and want to work as a systems analyst for Fortune 500 and they won't be looking for you, sorry they won't. Do a Comp Sci degree, it opens up more doors for you, please, don't do a Game Design degree. Even when you are applying for a Games Developer job they will look for a Comp Sci/Software Engineering degree.

Think of it this way, most people with a MEng from a Russell group in Comp Sci can go work for Jagex or EA. But not a single Game Design major will work for HSBC.
Reply 9
I'd do the computer science degree, Games design is so competitive and if you're not great at maths you'll struggle because there will be many maths geniuses that you'll be up against in the gaming industry who will have more advanced code, so yeah computer science is better for you probably...
Just a note about sheffield, it does look like the best course, but I tried to apply there and they've made me reapply 3 times because no one seems to know what they're doing. Considering it would also cost me £2,000-£3,000 a year in travel (I'm 22 and settled in Manchester so it wouldn't just be me I was uprooting) I just decided to go computer game technology at MMU. It has most of the same modules as CS, but I'm guaranteed to get a game related placement. Just make sure you really look into the course, make sure it teaches you programming (c++), theory of programming (very important for the new languages that will inevitably be developed), and maths. A lot of CS courses didn't even teach C++! Wish I could have gone to sheffield, but after being told to reapply 3 times, and then them failing to send me this 'special application form' that they promised, I kind of gave up!


Posted from TSR Mobile
You have to bear in mind many computer graphics positions will ask for a 2:1 in a minimum BEng computer science or equivalent courses. Make sure you cover this criteria before you choose your degree - If you are really that set on working in the gaming industry.

Also you may want to look at the work statistics gathered by Gamastura for 4000 employes worldwide. The industry is very unstable, and as I am finding out now, extremely low pay relative to the same skillsets in other industries. Please take this into consideration before you choose your degree.

Gamasutra 2014 development survey: http://www.gamasutra.com/salarysurvey2014.pdf?elq=b1a565e7a21c429e80081209c3962085&elqCampaignId=6457
Hi,

Bit late to the party but here's my opinion. Many of you are taking grand assumptions about Games courses. A course such as this one:

http://courses.bournemouth.ac.uk/courses/undergraduate-degree/software-development-for-animation-games-effects/bsc-hons/1082/course_content-course_content/

Has the relevant maths for Games. For example, 2 modules of 6 in first year are Maths. Another 2 are basically Computer Science modules. And the remaining 2 are specific to the course - on production tools and art.

I think some courses like the one I linked, have the relevant computer science bits to make you have a fighting chance for a career in Games. I could be wrong - please nitpick the exampled course!
Original post by lukemtesta
Don't choose a course because of the links the course may have - you can make these yourself, just takes a bit of effort. Choose a course because you have interest in the modules you are taking. .


Exactly!! I keep telling people this. Some people think because they want to become a programmer CS is automatically the best and only degree to do. For someone who absolutely has no clue about CS and programming, yes they should be doing a CS degree. But for the most part if you've had experience in programming (eg making apps/websites/backends) and you're good at maths, then engineering is the way to go. First of all you'll learn advanced maths than you will in CS/software engineering/game designing because those course limits you to linear algebra/discrete maths, you'll barely touch on calculus and other topics. Game designing is actually more of a maths problem than a programming problem. Once you know what to figure out the maths (eg they use the dot product to determine a backstabbing in tf2) , it's just a matter of a YouTube tutorial/ googling then off you go. But then again, not everyone is good at maths/physics to do engineering. I personally would say the brightest people should opt for an engineering degree, they can do CS stuff on the side


Posted from TSR Mobile
Reply 14
Sorry to dig up and old thread, but I had a similar question. For me, it's a toss up between...

MEng Computer Science
MEng Computer Science with High-performance Graphics and Games Engineering

(These are both at Leeds) The latter course has the exact same content as the plain CS course for the first three years, specialising in game dev stuff in the fourth year (parallel programming, rendering, game engines, geometric processing, simulation, animation etc). Plus while taking this degree you make more connections with the video game industry, which is never a bad thing (plus it's stuff I personally find more interesting)

Does the whole "CS degree > game dev degree" thing apply here? Even when it shares the first three yrs of content, couldn't I just say I have a BEng in CS if I had to? I even emailed half a dozen dev studios but (typically) got no replies...any thoughts?
follow your passions, no point doing something you'll find boring.

however I talked to a professor and he says gamedev companies only really hire maths/physics grads...so you may want to do one of them to truly follow your passion, depends, you may have a skewed opinion of what game development actually involves. experience would help but these companies tend not to offer it because of having too many applicants.
(edited 7 years ago)

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