The Student Room Group

Why I Have not become a Teacher

https://thebraindumpsite.wordpress.com/2014/08/03/why-i-have-not-become-a-teacher/

This is quite a long post so it's best to just post a link. With this being a student forum, with presumably most people here being in the education system at some level, I hope it will be of interest to most of you.

Any feedback, questions, arguments, criticisms etc more than welcome. Knowledge is power etc so if you think i'm talking ****, come at me :biggrin:

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Reply 1
Original post by Spiderman
https://thebraindumpsite.wordpress.com/2014/08/03/why-i-have-not-become-a-teacher/

This is quite a long post so it's best to just post a link. With this being a student forum, with presumably most people here being in the education system at some level, I hope it will be of interest to most of you.

Any feedback, questions, arguments, criticisms etc more than welcome. Knowledge is power etc so if you think i'm talking ****, come at me :biggrin:



Very interesting read and i agree with a lot of he/she says.

I like the image at the bottom of the post hahaha

I agree with so much of what you have said. It has put me off the education system as a whole. I am so fascinated by science, yet until uni I couldn't really explore the bits I loved because it wasn't in the curriculum etc.

To an extent even my module choices in uni really stopped me from exploring.

As you say, you learn for an exam and that it is it, afterwards you have no use for that information and forget it
Reply 3
Original post by cdude
Very interesting read and i agree with a lot of he/she says.

I like the image at the bottom of the post hahaha



Hehe yeah I love that too. It's from 'Calvin and Hobbes' by Bill Watterson - a brilliant comic if there ever was one. Most of them are online, well worth checking out.
Reply 4
It took you until after your GCSEs to realise that learning and exam success were not the same thing? I was saying this since year 9 (and now you've made a hipster ffs). Dewey highlighted the importance of learning as a means to an end, learning and culture is not torture it is entertainment and teaches valuable practical life skills, it's sad that such an important institution has become little more than tool for job filtering. I actually find myself agreeing with Mao Zedong ffs he wrote an essay on epistemology which highlighted the irrelevance of theory that was not dependent on practice and how the distinction between rationalism and empiricism could be overcome simply by acknowledging that knowledge is an end game not a process, ergo learning in this 'virtual reality' of job sorting you've described is useless for most as it's just abstract and distanced from everyday concerns.

As a student I think you're spot on in your essay and sadly people like you never seem to end up in a political position.
(edited 9 years ago)
Reply 5
You write very well. May I ask what you are doing now?

I am also curious to know what your ideal school and curriculum would look like, if you could design them yourself?
Reply 6
I have worked as an outreach worker since graduating, and am in the process of retraining as a counsellor/psychotherapist. I'm just doing night classes at the moment. It's a long process but i'll get there eventually. There are times when I really get an urge to teach but once I think it through and remember what it's like in practice, I decide against it. I've just moved across the country so i'm thinking of looking to volunteering opportunities.

My ideal school would be democratic. There are two democratic schools in the UK, Sands and Summerhill. They are democratic in the sense that all school decisions are made by having a school meeting and voting on it. There are many across Europe and the U.S.A though - they are often called Sudbury Valley schools out there though, as they're based on the original one which went by that name.

The lessons are often very similar to those in normal schools, but the main difference is that the children don't have to go if they don't want to. They can avoid lessons all year, and relax in the playground all day if they wish. You might be concerned that children would go nuts and never go to lessons at all, but actually they found that often the kids really do want to learn - if they are not forced to do so. The founders of both schools have said that the difficulty of getting a child to adapt to the level of responsibility involved in these schools is about proportionate to the amount of time they have spend in a traditional school. Summerhill don't even accept kids over the age of 12 because by that time they just can't handle the freedom and flip out in the same way that you might expect them to. The interesting thing is that if you get them early enough, the vast majority of kids seem to adapt to it just fine.

Educator John Holt put it best:

“It is absurd to think that an institution that commands and judges every part of a child’s life can make him more responsible. It can only make him less so.”

The idea is that in these schools, the kids get used from an early age to making genuinely meaningful decisions and living out the consequences of those decisions. In normal schools on the other hand, the only regular decision a child gets to make is whether or not to obey the teacher, which is hardly the kind of uncertain, ambiguous decisions which adulthood is so laden with. The argument follows that the kids in normal schools then are made irresponsible by the schools, or at least by the lack of responsibility involved in going to these schools.
(edited 9 years ago)
I have completed an Education Studies degree and Primary PGCE and have been thinking exactly the same thing this past year. I'm going to complete my NQT year and see if a passion develops for working with children that overrides the government tick-box bull****. If it doesn't then I will probably pursue something in counselling or working with SEN children. Very good article and one of the biggest problems in education today.
Reply 8
For anyone interested, Ken Robinson's book 'Our of our minds' is worth a read. He's the bloke made famous about schools killing creativity (TED talk with millions of views) Also 'Summerhill' by AS Neill (the founder of the school), although he expresses some very old fashioned about homosexuality and didn't recognise the dangers of smoking. The education stuff is interesting if you can see past that though.

Couple of videos on Summerhill which give an insight into it. The first is a new report (worth skipping the introduction), and the second is a made for TV film set at the school. The film is for kids but it's very well made and probably gives the best insight into what the school runs like on a day to day basis. It's possibly quite idealised, but it gives the gist of it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yt9GtLCaNpU#t=455
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxngqMavda0
Reply 9
Original post by FrostyLemon
I have completed an Education Studies degree and Primary PGCE and have been thinking exactly the same thing this past year. I'm going to complete my NQT year and see if a passion develops for working with children that overrides the government tick-box bull****. If it doesn't then I will probably pursue something in counselling or working with SEN children. Very good article and one of the biggest problems in education today.


I was at stage when I left. If i had a back-up plan in case I didn't feel any better about it then I might have gone into it to see what happened. I didn't though, and if it had gone wrong then i'd be out of a job and potentially homeless if I didn't find something sharpish, so I decided against the NQT year. As I say i'm still sometimes tempted, but not much as of yet.
Original post by Spiderman
I was at stage when I left. If i had a back-up plan in case I didn't feel any better about it then I might have gone into it to see what happened. I didn't though, and if it had gone wrong then i'd be out of a job and potentially homeless if I didn't find something sharpish, so I decided against the NQT year. As I say i'm still sometimes tempted, but not much as of yet.


Well it was a very brave decision after investing so much time into education. I actually think doing the education studies degree has given me a very cynical view of the education system, whereas all my PGCE coursemates who had come from different backgrounds were very fresh into teaching and just enjoying being with the children. I don't really view this as a bad thing in all honesty. Although doing your NQT year later on will be difficult, at least you can always come back to teaching if you miss it. Perhaps if you remember this thread you could update it with your views in the future. It would be insightful for me, considering I have come from such a similar route.
Reply 11
Original post by FrostyLemon
Well it was a very brave decision after investing so much time into education. I actually think doing the education studies degree has given me a very cynical view of the education system, whereas all my PGCE coursemates who had come from different backgrounds were very fresh into teaching and just enjoying being with the children. I don't really view this as a bad thing in all honesty. Although doing your NQT year later on will be difficult, at least you can always come back to teaching if you miss it. Perhaps if you remember this thread you could update it with your views in the future. It would be insightful for me, considering I have come from such a similar route.


With the PGCE students being so fresh - that is the exact experience I had. I found it hard to talk to people about this stuff too, which as I said at the top of the article is why I wrote it in the first place - so my recent coursemates could read it and consider my perspective properly.

I don't think it's a bad thing either - the only issue is when you get a load of people in schools who are able to manage, but don't know very much about educational psychology or learning theories etc. The variety of expertise from previous degrees is good though.

Feel free to email me if you want. At the bottom of that article is a link to the magazine it was initially published in, and at the bottom of that article is my email address. It's weird that we have such similar experiences, including our undergrad course! I can understand how you're feeling though - when i'd just graduated I knew how I felt but didn't know what to do with myself, and it was pretty scary tbh. The outreach stuff isn't really something i'm passionate about but it's alrght and it gets the money in while i re-train.

But yeah, get in touch if you want to chat about anything.
Original post by Spiderman
https://thebraindumpsite.wordpress.com/2014/08/03/why-i-have-not-become-a-teacher/

This is quite a long post so it's best to just post a link. With this being a student forum, with presumably most people here being in the education system at some level, I hope it will be of interest to most of you.

Any feedback, questions, arguments, criticisms etc more than welcome. Knowledge is power etc so if you think i'm talking ****, come at me :biggrin:


A great post! Absolutely enjoyed the thoroughness of the writing, and the complete objectivity to it: The writing could've opened many ideas, and wasn't subjected to your own personal opinion (not bombarding in its whole entirety). I'm 18 and an aspiring teacher, but am fully aware of the risks of getting into modern teaching with the ideals I have. I still want, and know I will teach, but I'm just not sure where or how I'll get there- I have a few ideas, though. :smile:

Politically, the Green Party have only came close to mimicking policies that I agree with and would know that those plans would develop in the future. Not a favourable party by the general consensus, but they certainly have my political backing. :smile:

Once again, a great post OP and a good thread to get everyone talking! :biggrin:
Original post by Spiderman
I have worked as an outreach worker since graduating, and am in the process of retraining as a counsellor/psychotherapist. I'm just doing night classes at the moment. It's a long process but i'll get there eventually. There are times when I really get an urge to teach but once I think it through and remember what it's like in practice, I decide against it. I've just moved across the country so i'm thinking of looking to volunteering opportunities.

My ideal school would be democratic. There are two democratic schools in the UK, Sands and Summerhill. They are democratic in the sense that all school decisions are made by having a school meeting and voting on it. There are many across Europe and the U.S.A though - they are often called Sudbury Valley schools out there though, as they're based on the original one which went by that name.

The lessons are often very similar to those in normal schools, but the main difference is that the children don't have to go if they don't want to. They can avoid lessons all year, and relax in the playground all day if they wish. You might be concerned that children would go nuts and never go to lessons at all, but actually they found that often the kids really do want to learn - if they are not forced to do so. The founders of both schools have said that the difficulty of getting a child to adapt to the level of responsibility involved in these schools is about proportionate to the amount of time they have spend in a traditional school. Summerhill don't even accept kids over the age of 12 because by that time they just can't handle the freedom and flip out in the same way that you might expect them to. The interesting thing is that if you get them early enough, the vast majority of kids seem to adapt to it just fine.

Educator John Holt put it best:

“It is absurd to think that an institution that commands and judges every part of a child’s life can make him more responsible. It can only make him less so.”

The idea is that in these schools, the kids get used from an early age to making genuinely meaningful decisions and living out the consequences of those decisions. In normal schools on the other hand, the only regular decision a child gets to make is whether or not to obey the teacher, which is hardly the kind of uncertain, ambiguous decisions which adulthood is so laden with. The argument follows that the kids in normal schools then are made irresponsible by the schools, or at least by the lack of responsibility involved in going to these schools.


My only concern about these schools, fantastic as they are- truly some great work going on- they are fee-paying. Unfortunately, this makes such a way of life not very accessible to every young child.
I still don't know where I stand with this situation. I understand they can't change their way of entry, and by offering scholarships ( I'm not sure if Summerhill do, actually) is the best way to offer such an education to a wider variety of people.
I'm just very undecided here.
(edited 9 years ago)
TLDR
Reply 15
Original post by Amy. J S
My only concern about these schools, fantastic as they are- truly some great work going on- they are fee-paying. Unfortunately, this makes such a way of life not very accessible to every young child.
I still don't know where I stand with this situation. I understand they can't change their way of entry, and by offering scholarships ( I'm not sure if Summerhill do, actually) is the best way to offer such an education to a wider variety of people.
I'm just very undecided here.


I'm not sure if Summerhill do but Sands definitely do (they're the other democratic school in the UK). They actually specialise in kids who have been disillusioned with normal school so I think they sometimes cater for kids whose parents can't afford thousands per year.

I agree that it is a shame. There has been movement towards trying to establish a Free School on these democratic principles although it hasn't been sanctioned yet. I think they were gathering together evidence on the positives behind the philosophy but it wasn't given the go-ahead by the government. If interest continue to grow though then it may be that we get some Free Schools run in this way.

On Summerhill themselves and those like them, I guess they're just pragmatic about it. Giving this education to a handful of children with well-off parents is better than giving it to nobody, I suppose?
Original post by Spiderman
I'm not sure if Summerhill do but Sands definitely do (they're the other democratic school in the UK). They actually specialise in kids who have been disillusioned with normal school so I think they sometimes cater for kids whose parents can't afford thousands per year.

I agree that it is a shame. There has been movement towards trying to establish a Free School on these democratic principles although it hasn't been sanctioned yet. I think they were gathering together evidence on the positives behind the philosophy but it wasn't given the go-ahead by the government. If interest continue to grow though then it may be that we get some Free Schools run in this way.

On Summerhill themselves and those like them, I guess they're just pragmatic about it. Giving this education to a handful of children with well-off parents is better than giving it to nobody, I suppose?



Exactly. When I first started to find out about these alternative schools, last year or so. I was intially disappointed. Being a person who wouldn't have been able to have been given these chances without a scholarship, naturally I saw all of those people who wouldn't get these opportunities first- that is a stupid way to think, and is a far too pro-working class ideal, ultimately segregating society into more chunks. Because then, if you feel that there are so many that aren't experiencing such opportunities, you can become harsh, bitter and jealous etc. And now I do feel it's great they are able to offer some students that lifestyle- I hope to go down and visit the school in the near future.

The Green Party, (I do blabber on about the policies: I was blown away when I read their manifesto :smile:) their ideals on education, to sumamrise, is to keep the majority of the systems we have- they don't want any radical change, that could put people off and already create more stigmas to the party- and use the opportunities of new schools being built, a new way of education needing to be explored as the economy changes and people begin to wonder where schooling fits in with that. Their education policy is heavily detailed and quite futuristic, but like I said in a previous reply, it is the only political move I see probable within the next 10 years or so.
With Primary Education, they stressed the idea for teacher's to teach- ironically, that is what they are there for. The party can understand, teacher's are weighed down under guidelines and regulations, and there is such strain to move away from that. Also they want to look at completely aboloshing SAT testing in primary schools- they didn't quite think children of that age were ready for tetsing, no matter how subtle they are. To also have one afternoon a week for classes to have some time with a Forest School. I'm not sure if you've heard of it? They are recently developed, and they just give children time outside, to just burn off some energy, have a run around- really just enjoy being out doors.
"Why I Have not become a Teacher"

Is it Because you randomly Insert capital letters All over the Place?
Reply 18
Original post by Mr M
"Why I Have not become a Teacher"

Is it Because you randomly Insert capital letters All over the Place?


Probably.

I'm not sure what the rule is with titles like that. Maybe you can help.
Reply 19
Original post by Amy. J S
Exactly. When I first started to find out about these alternative schools, last year or so. I was intially disappointed. Being a person who wouldn't have been able to have been given these chances without a scholarship, naturally I saw all of those people who wouldn't get these opportunities first- that is a stupid way to think, and is a far too pro-working class ideal, ultimately segregating society into more chunks. Because then, if you feel that there are so many that aren't experiencing such opportunities, you can become harsh, bitter and jealous etc. And now I do feel it's great they are able to offer some students that lifestyle- I hope to go down and visit the school in the near future.

The Green Party, (I do blabber on about the policies: I was blown away when I read their manifesto :smile:) their ideals on education, to sumamrise, is to keep the majority of the systems we have- they don't want any radical change, that could put people off and already create more stigmas to the party- and use the opportunities of new schools being built, a new way of education needing to be explored as the economy changes and people begin to wonder where schooling fits in with that. Their education policy is heavily detailed and quite futuristic, but like I said in a previous reply, it is the only political move I see probable within the next 10 years or so.
With Primary Education, they stressed the idea for teacher's to teach- ironically, that is what they are there for. The party can understand, teacher's are weighed down under guidelines and regulations, and there is such strain to move away from that. Also they want to look at completely aboloshing SAT testing in primary schools- they didn't quite think children of that age were ready for tetsing, no matter how subtle they are. To also have one afternoon a week for classes to have some time with a Forest School. I'm not sure if you've heard of it? They are recently developed, and they just give children time outside, to just burn off some energy, have a run around- really just enjoy being out doors.


Yeah I like the Green Party and i'm probably most in line with their perspective in general.

I see what you mean at the top of your post. I think all this stuff is often a lesson in pragmatism to be honest!

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