Barrister -> Solicitor

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Imogen1988

I'm not saying that students at rubbish unis are all bad students! And I'm sure the odd few do get absolutely brilliant degrees - what I'm saying is that even the highest 1st from TVU or another uni of that level, is it true that the degree is seen as worthless?
I know obviously a Cambridge degree is worth more than one from a much lower uni, but would there be any point in struggling through a degree at a bad uni, working to your full potential to get a 1st at the end only to find it's being rubbished by potential employers and treated as worthless because of where it has been gained!?

I read somewhere that someone was ashamed to mention that they have a degree from (I think it was Westminster) because it has been frowned upon and basically not recognised.

Oh please lets not start this again, I don't have the energy today to start sounding off about this subject....

Reply 41

Imogen1988

ellewoods

I appreciate that contributors to this thread on the whole wish to be barristers, hence the :frown:

symbols used a lot when talking about "ending up" as solicitors - however I think it should be highlighted that while getting to be a barrister is more competitive than for training contracts, training contracts are still uber competitive!

Nobody can take for granted that they will "just be a solicitor" should they not end up being a barrister!! :eek:

I had to work bloody hard for my training contract, and getting one was my ultimate goal all along. It can in no way be assumed that a training contract is the automatic consolation prize for wannabe barristers who don't get tenancy.

Agree totally. It sounds so bad that people view becoming a solicitor as somehow having failed! It's definitely something in its own right, and not just the ledge you happen to land on if you fail to reach the ultimate peak that is becoming a barrister!!

Reply 42

Lewisy-boy

Yeah I agree ... becoming a solicitor is my ultimate goal and I am quite offended by the way everyone seems to view it as a promotion to be a barrister and that to be a solicitor is somehow automatic and easy. Well, no offence, I could get a job with some rubbish firm somewhere easily, but I mean to be a top solicitor in a really good firm.

Reply 43

dragon_1706

ellewoods

I appreciate that contributors to this thread on the whole wish to be barristers, hence the :frown:

Especially if they don't make a good case in interviews for why they actually want to be solicitors! I agree, though - from some of these posts, you'd think anyone can get a training contract without any problem. Not true... :frown:

Reply 44

Lush Law

Lewis-HuStuJCR

Totally agree. I don't understand this snobbishness quite a lot of people have. I know a few people at uni who want to be barristers and they seem to view being a solicitor as inferior. It's just *******s and at the end of the day the Bar is like one of the smallest and most annoyingly middle-class professions in existence. No thankyou.

Reply 45

Marcods

I agree - i don't think being a Solicitor is at all inferior to the Bar. In fact, many Solicitors are as specialised in certain fields as Barristers. The only reason firms continue to use Barristers is because of their advocacy skills, and because 99% of the time it is cheaper to hire a Barrister than commit their own staff to a hearing.

With regards to the degree issue: in reality, only a high 2:1 from a respected university is going to cut it for the big chambers. This isn't because of snobbery, its because most candidates who apply for pupilage & tenancy offer incredibly prestigious academic credentials. Just take a look at how many juniors there are with postgrad qualifications - even PhD's! The Bar is, on the whole, a LOT more difficult a profession to get into, but that doesn't make Barristers more worthy of prestige than Solicitors.

Reply 46

Lewisy-boy

Its just the way it was traditionally seen ... solicitors were seen as doing the backoffice work and feeding the barrister who did the real stuff. However, solicitors are doing more and mroe (especially in the commercial field in the big firms) especially with development of such techniques as arbitration and mediation etc, and staying away from Court. Solicitors with higher rights of audience also have some bearing on this, although limited cos the barrister will always have far superior advocacy experience. But junior barristers may find themselves with less work as solicitors undertake lower level advocacy - especially int eh criminal field where most barristers break themselves in so to speak ... if solicitor advocates take all this work then training for barristers may become even mroe scant.

just my take on it... comments welcome.

Reply 47

Danny5876

So would you like to see a joint profession in England and Wales?

Reply 48

Lewisy-boy

No, I doubt that will happen. My points merely relate to the fact that since solicitors (criminal ones) are now able to gain higher rights their clients find it cheaper to simply let them do the advocacy so barristers will get less work in their junior years. Also, the solicitor can probably charge more for his advocacy fees so is likely to advise it... I am only referring to minor stuff, anything big will stay with barristers, but the juniors wont get the big stuff will they?

Reply 49

Marcods

Although, since the whole higher rights thing was introduced, very few solicitors have taken advantage of it (3% i think was the last figure i heard), and its usually the senior partners in big firms - with some exceptions obviously.

I don't think this is significant enough to detract from how much work is available for new juniors.

Reply 50

Lewisy-boy

Well as I said thats just what I was told ... I dunno if its true, but its a possible coincidence in the future.

Reply 51

Happy1

Imogen1988

I know obviously a Cambridge degree is worth more than one from a much lower uni,

I read somewhere that someone was ashamed to mention that they have a degree from (I think it was Westminster) because it has been frowned upon and basically not recognised.

I pesonally dont think it is... but then i have a thing about oxbridge... i dont think its in a league of its own any more.

well thats a waste of money then isnt it!

Reply 52

Lewisy-boy

Lets not lie here, oxbridge degrees are the most respected but I agree, the gap is slowly closing. In law aswell, there is a much smaller gap between the very best unis and the good law schools ... they are closing in.

With regards to being embarrassed by that degree, I can think of far worse that ppl are proud of! Depends on the subject though.

Reply 53

muncrun

kirstinx

I was just looking to arrange some work experience in a Chambers in my area and I ended up on Lawcareers.net and read that “In fact, as low as only one-third of pupils find a tenancy” which rather worried me, as I want to be a Barrister but don’t want to be unemployed. So if someone completed the BVC and a pupillage but failed to find a tenancy what would they need to do to become a solicitor? Is the LPC necessary? Or could you just go straight onto a training contract?

A few concrete stats so you can draw your own conclusions:

~1500 places on the BVC

~500 pupillages

~250 tenancies

Roughly 50 of those 250 will sink within a year and won't be heard of again.

Reply 54

Danny5876

Attempting to become a Barrister doesn't sound that appealing anymore.

Reply 55

Purple

As much as I would love to be a barrister the process seems so daunting and difficult.

Reply 56

Marcods

Thats why they say you have to be absolutely, unconditionally devoted to becoming a barrister in order to make it. I'm not sure I want to be one badly enough...