Becoming an academic
For years now my career ambition has been to become an academic. I know my motivation to do is respectful and justified - I absolutely love my subject to the point where I would feel privileged to devote my life to it, I want to be actively involved in research in my field and I would revel in the opportunity to teach my subject at a high level. Salary or prestige don't really motivate my ambition at all - only a love for my subject.
My subject is music and I'm going to Newcastle University in September to start my degree in it. How easy is it (or perhaps difficult is a more appropriate word) to establish a career as an academic? How easy would it be for me to complete a masters and PHD in my limited financial situation? Would I get funding?
As naive as it may sound, I really can't see myself doing anything but devoting my life to the academic study of music at the highest level.
My subject is music and I'm going to Newcastle University in September to start my degree in it. How easy is it (or perhaps difficult is a more appropriate word) to establish a career as an academic? How easy would it be for me to complete a masters and PHD in my limited financial situation? Would I get funding?
As naive as it may sound, I really can't see myself doing anything but devoting my life to the academic study of music at the highest level.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by D.Wright
Academics usually extend their subject by thinking of some new innovative idea. Music is an archaic subject as is History, so I think you'd be called a 'Scholar' rather than an Academic.
I don't know though!
I don't know though!
I think the definitions of academic and scholar are basically interchangeable. I would define an academic as an individual who's involved in research in their field and who usually teaches at a higher education institution of some sort and that's what I would aspire to.
I see your point, but I must insist that music isn't necessarily an archaic subject - it is the study of something from the past but there's still lots of research and innovative thinking being done in the field.
Hey buddy,
I like your high ambitions, especially since you must be 18 or so. I am currently doing a PhD .... so I know a little bit about the ins and outs of how to go about things. Here are just a few of my thoughts.
- First, you've got the idea quite right. To become an academic, a PhD is a must and so after finishing your degree, this is pretty much the next step. At the moment, aim to graduate with a 1st because this will make the route to gaining funding and linking up with a supervisor all that much easier.
- In general, yes you can get funding. There's lots of places. As I'm in the science field, there are lots of government bodies, companies and other organisations willing to fund research. Also, your own department will most likely hand out scholarships to students who do really well in their UG - hence another incentive to do well in your UG degree. Make sure you do plenty of research finding out different sources of funding in your field.
- It's early days now, but keep in mind what sort of supervisor you would like to work with. I can't stress enough that this is key as they will influence your PhD significantly. During your degree, see what subjects interest you and what you're particularly good at. Based on this, look into the academics that teach these subjects at your uni or even other unis. Maybe have a chat with them and see whether you will be able to work with them and whether you two get along personally. Never restrict yourself early on and explore and talk to lots of PhD students, academics and people who have just graduate to see what the whole experience involves. Also explore other unis.
- Just be aware that academia is quite a competitive field. The competition between academics is often quite hostile and the environment you're in can reflect this. Make sure you're at a department that has a healthy and friendly environment when doing your PhD.
If you want to know more, please feel free to ask! I wish you all the very best for your career
I like your high ambitions, especially since you must be 18 or so. I am currently doing a PhD .... so I know a little bit about the ins and outs of how to go about things. Here are just a few of my thoughts.
- First, you've got the idea quite right. To become an academic, a PhD is a must and so after finishing your degree, this is pretty much the next step. At the moment, aim to graduate with a 1st because this will make the route to gaining funding and linking up with a supervisor all that much easier.
- In general, yes you can get funding. There's lots of places. As I'm in the science field, there are lots of government bodies, companies and other organisations willing to fund research. Also, your own department will most likely hand out scholarships to students who do really well in their UG - hence another incentive to do well in your UG degree. Make sure you do plenty of research finding out different sources of funding in your field.
- It's early days now, but keep in mind what sort of supervisor you would like to work with. I can't stress enough that this is key as they will influence your PhD significantly. During your degree, see what subjects interest you and what you're particularly good at. Based on this, look into the academics that teach these subjects at your uni or even other unis. Maybe have a chat with them and see whether you will be able to work with them and whether you two get along personally. Never restrict yourself early on and explore and talk to lots of PhD students, academics and people who have just graduate to see what the whole experience involves. Also explore other unis.
- Just be aware that academia is quite a competitive field. The competition between academics is often quite hostile and the environment you're in can reflect this. Make sure you're at a department that has a healthy and friendly environment when doing your PhD.
If you want to know more, please feel free to ask! I wish you all the very best for your career
Original post by DylanJ96
For years now my career ambition has been to become an academic. I know my motivation to do is respectful and justified - I absolutely love my subject to the point where I would feel privileged to devote my life to it, I want to be actively involved in research in my field and I would revel in the opportunity to teach my subject at a high level. Salary or prestige don't really motivate my ambition at all - only a love for my subject.
My subject is music and I'm going to Newcastle University in September to start my degree in it. How easy is it (or perhaps difficult is a more appropriate word) to establish a career as an academic? How easy would it be for me to complete a masters and PHD in my limited financial situation? Would I get funding?
As naive as it may sound, I really can't see myself doing anything but devoting my life to the academic study of music at the highest level.
My subject is music and I'm going to Newcastle University in September to start my degree in it. How easy is it (or perhaps difficult is a more appropriate word) to establish a career as an academic? How easy would it be for me to complete a masters and PHD in my limited financial situation? Would I get funding?
As naive as it may sound, I really can't see myself doing anything but devoting my life to the academic study of music at the highest level.
Honestly, i've never seen truly great musician#s who studied music to a high level, most of the creative geniuses at guitar are self-taught.
Each to their own though, nobody is going to stop you doing what you love, i cant imagine what a pHd in music must be like.
Original post by superduper9
Hey buddy,
I like your high ambitions, especially since you must be 18 or so. I am currently doing a PhD .... so I know a little bit about the ins and outs of how to go about things. Here are just a few of my thoughts.
- First, you've got the idea quite right. To become an academic, a PhD is a must and so after finishing your degree, this is pretty much the next step. At the moment, aim to graduate with a 1st because this will make the route to gaining funding and linking up with a supervisor all that much easier.
- In general, yes you can get funding. There's lots of places. As I'm in the science field, there are lots of government bodies, companies and other organisations willing to fund research. Also, your own department will most likely hand out scholarships to students who do really well in their UG - hence another incentive to do well in your UG degree. Make sure you do plenty of research finding out different sources of funding in your field.
- It's early days now, but keep in mind what sort of supervisor you would like to work with. I can't stress enough that this is key as they will influence your PhD significantly. During your degree, see what subjects interest you and what you're particularly good at. Based on this, look into the academics that teach these subjects at your uni or even other unis. Maybe have a chat with them and see whether you will be able to work with them and whether you two get along personally. Never restrict yourself early on and explore and talk to lots of PhD students, academics and people who have just graduate to see what the whole experience involves. Also explore other unis.
- Just be aware that academia is quite a competitive field. The competition between academics is often quite hostile and the environment you're in can reflect this. Make sure you're at a department that has a healthy and friendly environment when doing your PhD.
If you want to know more, please feel free to ask! I wish you all the very best for your career
I like your high ambitions, especially since you must be 18 or so. I am currently doing a PhD .... so I know a little bit about the ins and outs of how to go about things. Here are just a few of my thoughts.
- First, you've got the idea quite right. To become an academic, a PhD is a must and so after finishing your degree, this is pretty much the next step. At the moment, aim to graduate with a 1st because this will make the route to gaining funding and linking up with a supervisor all that much easier.
- In general, yes you can get funding. There's lots of places. As I'm in the science field, there are lots of government bodies, companies and other organisations willing to fund research. Also, your own department will most likely hand out scholarships to students who do really well in their UG - hence another incentive to do well in your UG degree. Make sure you do plenty of research finding out different sources of funding in your field.
- It's early days now, but keep in mind what sort of supervisor you would like to work with. I can't stress enough that this is key as they will influence your PhD significantly. During your degree, see what subjects interest you and what you're particularly good at. Based on this, look into the academics that teach these subjects at your uni or even other unis. Maybe have a chat with them and see whether you will be able to work with them and whether you two get along personally. Never restrict yourself early on and explore and talk to lots of PhD students, academics and people who have just graduate to see what the whole experience involves. Also explore other unis.
- Just be aware that academia is quite a competitive field. The competition between academics is often quite hostile and the environment you're in can reflect this. Make sure you're at a department that has a healthy and friendly environment when doing your PhD.
If you want to know more, please feel free to ask! I wish you all the very best for your career
Thank you so much, that was really helpful!
Original post by Doob
Honestly, i've never seen truly great musician#s who studied music to a high level, most of the creative geniuses at guitar are self-taught.
Each to their own though, nobody is going to stop you doing what you love, i cant imagine what a pHd in music must be like.
Each to their own though, nobody is going to stop you doing what you love, i cant imagine what a pHd in music must be like.
I don't intend to be a truly great musician (although that would be nice) - I want to be a truly great music academic/scholar. There's a massive difference between the academic study of music and the study of musical performance. I must point out that many of the great musicians that I know of studied music to a high-level, most actually.
A PHD in music is like a PHD but in music...
Original post by DylanJ96
I don't intend to be a truly great musician (although that would be nice) - I want to be a truly great music academic/scholar. There's a massive difference between the academic study of music and the study of musical performance. I must point out that many of the great musicians that I know of studied music to a high-level, most actually.
A PHD in music is like a PHD but in music...
A PHD in music is like a PHD but in music...
Duh, but what do you get up to at such a high level in music?
Most of the greatest guitarists in heavy metal (which is one of the most technically demanding and creative genres) were self-taught. Randy Rhoads is the only one I can think of, who wanted to get a degree in classical guitar, before his untimely passing.
Original post by Doob
Duh, but what do you get up to at such a high level in music?
Most of the greatest guitarists in heavy metal (which is one of the most technically demanding and creative genres) were self-taught. Randy Rhoads is the only one I can think of, who wanted to get a degree in classical guitar, before his untimely passing.
Most of the greatest guitarists in heavy metal (which is one of the most technically demanding and creative genres) were self-taught. Randy Rhoads is the only one I can think of, who wanted to get a degree in classical guitar, before his untimely passing.
Well you get up to research like any other PHD, duh. For example, you might look at certain composers or periods in music and do research into their work or the work of that period in the hope of making an academic contribution to that particular field of study within music, e.g. musicology. If you were doing your PHD in composing, you could complete a portfolio of compositions and, I imagine, an academic analysis of them. There's so much diversity to a PHD in any subject and music is no different. Personally, if I were to complete a PHD then it would be in the field of musicology.
Yes, but that's guitar where it's a lot easier (not easy) to be a great self-taught musician. It's almost unheard of to be a great concert pianist and be self-taught. Most people who I would define as truly great musicians had extensive musical training and had certainly studied music to what can justifiably be described as a "high level" - I'm referring to classical musicians though. I would definitely say classical is the most technically demanding (and creative in my opinion) of any genre.
Original post by DylanJ96
For years now my career ambition has been to become an academic. I know my motivation to do is respectful and justified - I absolutely love my subject to the point where I would feel privileged to devote my life to it, I want to be actively involved in research in my field and I would revel in the opportunity to teach my subject at a high level. Salary or prestige don't really motivate my ambition at all - only a love for my subject.
My subject is music and I'm going to Newcastle University in September to start my degree in it. How easy is it (or perhaps difficult is a more appropriate word) to establish a career as an academic? How easy would it be for me to complete a masters and PHD in my limited financial situation? Would I get funding?
As naive as it may sound, I really can't see myself doing anything but devoting my life to the academic study of music at the highest level.
My subject is music and I'm going to Newcastle University in September to start my degree in it. How easy is it (or perhaps difficult is a more appropriate word) to establish a career as an academic? How easy would it be for me to complete a masters and PHD in my limited financial situation? Would I get funding?
As naive as it may sound, I really can't see myself doing anything but devoting my life to the academic study of music at the highest level.
Hey,
I see you've got a bit of advice already from a scientist. Just wanna add that there are NO jobs in music academia at the moment. Even the very best and brightest PhD students who taught me at Oxford are struggling to get postdocs and jobs, to the extent that some of them have moved out of academia entirely. Even if there WERE jobs, it's a cut-throat field and you really do have to be the best of the best.
I see you haven't started uni yet. Just be aware that things can change very easily throughout your degree course. Any vaguely sensible lecturer at Newcastle will warn you that there is very little funding (especially with the new funding system) for Masters courses (next to none, I believe) and only a little bit more at PhD level; also that (as I've said) there are no jobs. Too many people doing PhDs and not enough funding or jobs to go around
I'd advise you to keep all options open and to build up your CV within internships and work experience placements and jobs (again, difficult in the current economic climate, but Newcastle's department is a good one, so hopefully you might land something), just to keep all your options open. I am hoping to start a PhD in ethnomusicology in September but I am having to finance the fees and fieldwork costs myself (my dad says he'll have the money for the first instalment by September. I highly doubt this
). I am going in with no interest in or illusion that I will get a job in academia at the end of it. I am hoping to study at least part of my PhD on a part-time basis, so I can work alongside it and not have any gaps in my CV. I don't wanna be a party pooper but like I said, any vaguely sensible person within musicology, music analysis, ethnomusicology, psychology of music or popular music studies will tell you the same things
Original post by Slowbro93
You may be able to give a better insight into this 
Thanks darling
Original post by The_Lonely_Goatherd
Hey,
I see you've got a bit of advice already from a scientist. Just wanna add that there are NO jobs in music academia at the moment. Even the very best and brightest PhD students who taught me at Oxford are struggling to get postdocs and jobs, to the extent that some of them have moved out of academia entirely. Even if there WERE jobs, it's a cut-throat field and you really do have to be the best of the best.
I see you haven't started uni yet. Just be aware that things can change very easily throughout your degree course. Any vaguely sensible lecturer at Newcastle will warn you that there is very little funding (especially with the new funding system) for Masters courses (next to none, I believe) and only a little bit more at PhD level; also that (as I've said) there are no jobs. Too many people doing PhDs and not enough funding or jobs to go around
I'd advise you to keep all options open and to build up your CV within internships and work experience placements and jobs (again, difficult in the current economic climate, but Newcastle's department is a good one, so hopefully you might land something), just to keep all your options open. I am hoping to start a PhD in ethnomusicology in September but I am having to finance the fees and fieldwork costs myself (my dad says he'll have the money for the first instalment by September. I highly doubt this ). I am going in with no interest in or illusion that I will get a job in academia at the end of it. I am hoping to study at least part of my PhD on a part-time basis, so I can work alongside it and not have any gaps in my CV.
I don't wanna be a party pooper but like I said, any vaguely sensible person within musicology, music analysis, ethnomusicology, psychology of music or popular music studies will tell you the same things
Thanks darling
I see you've got a bit of advice already from a scientist. Just wanna add that there are NO jobs in music academia at the moment. Even the very best and brightest PhD students who taught me at Oxford are struggling to get postdocs and jobs, to the extent that some of them have moved out of academia entirely. Even if there WERE jobs, it's a cut-throat field and you really do have to be the best of the best.
I see you haven't started uni yet. Just be aware that things can change very easily throughout your degree course. Any vaguely sensible lecturer at Newcastle will warn you that there is very little funding (especially with the new funding system) for Masters courses (next to none, I believe) and only a little bit more at PhD level; also that (as I've said) there are no jobs. Too many people doing PhDs and not enough funding or jobs to go around
I'd advise you to keep all options open and to build up your CV within internships and work experience placements and jobs (again, difficult in the current economic climate, but Newcastle's department is a good one, so hopefully you might land something), just to keep all your options open. I am hoping to start a PhD in ethnomusicology in September but I am having to finance the fees and fieldwork costs myself (my dad says he'll have the money for the first instalment by September. I highly doubt this
). I am going in with no interest in or illusion that I will get a job in academia at the end of it. I am hoping to study at least part of my PhD on a part-time basis, so I can work alongside it and not have any gaps in my CV. I don't wanna be a party pooper but like I said, any vaguely sensible person within musicology, music analysis, ethnomusicology, psychology of music or popular music studies will tell you the same things
Thanks darling
Thanks for you advice, I really appreciate it!
That is a downer but I'm nothing but persistent - I'm going to try my very best to get a good degree at UG and get into further degrees somehow with the intention of going into a career in academia somewhere down the line.
Even if I can't progress past a PHD, masters, or even my UG, the experience of studying music in depth is certainly a worthwhile pursuit. So even if it isn't going to lead to a career in academia, I still won't feel satisfied with myself unless I study what I love to the very highest level - even if it's just studying for the sake of studying, learning about music in increasing complexity just puts a massive grin on my face. I simply need to learn more about music in an academic sense!
A guy can dream...
Original post by DylanJ96
Well you get up to research like any other PHD, duh. For example, you might look at certain composers or periods in music and do research into their work or the work of that period in the hope of making an academic contribution to that particular field of study within music, e.g. musicology. If you were doing your PHD in composing, you could complete a portfolio of compositions and, I imagine, an academic analysis of them. There's so much diversity to a PHD in any subject and music is no different. Personally, if I were to complete a PHD then it would be in the field of musicology.
Yes, but that's guitar where it's a lot easier (not easy) to be a great self-taught musician. It's almost unheard of to be a great concert pianist and be self-taught. Most people who I would define as truly great musicians had extensive musical training and had certainly studied music to what can justifiably be described as a "high level" - I'm referring to classical musicians though. I would definitely say classical is the most technically demanding (and creative in my opinion) of any genre.
Yes, but that's guitar where it's a lot easier (not easy) to be a great self-taught musician. It's almost unheard of to be a great concert pianist and be self-taught. Most people who I would define as truly great musicians had extensive musical training and had certainly studied music to what can justifiably be described as a "high level" - I'm referring to classical musicians though. I would definitely say classical is the most technically demanding (and creative in my opinion) of any genre.
John Petrucci is the undisputed God of metal guitar and is self-taught.
This entire solo is improvised:
[video="youtube;njgZLQkIcP0"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njgZLQkIcP0[/video]
I have some friends who play for the National Youth Orchestra.
Original post by Doob
John Petrucci is the undisputed God of metal guitar and is self-taught.
We get that.
And you haven't got that performance careers are completely different from research and teaching careers. It's the difference between being a professional athlete and an anatomist.
Original post by Doob
John Petrucci is the undisputed God of metal guitar and is self-taught.
This entire solo is improvised:
[video="youtube;njgZLQkIcP0"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njgZLQkIcP0[/video]
I have some friends who play for the National Youth Orchestra.
This entire solo is improvised:
[video="youtube;njgZLQkIcP0"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njgZLQkIcP0[/video]
I have some friends who play for the National Youth Orchestra.
That's really good but it doesn't quite match the technical bravado and emotional depth as this not-so-little monster of a concerto. What an astonishing display of beauty tastefully combined with sheer virtuosity!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOBX-89Xh0c&hd=1
I actually know people who play in the Nation Youth Orchestra too, great bunch of players.
That piece, Rachmaninoff's 3rd Piano Concerto, always leaves me in sheer awe, completely breathless.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by DylanJ96
That's really good but it doesn't quite match the technical bravado and emotional depth as this not-so-little monster of a concerto. What an astonishing display of beauty tastefully combined with sheer virtuosity!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOBX-89Xh0c&hd=1
I actually know people who play in the Nation Youth Orchestra too, great bunch of players.
That piece, Rachmaninoff's 3rd Piano Concerto, always leaves me in sheer awe, completely breathless.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOBX-89Xh0c&hd=1
I actually know people who play in the Nation Youth Orchestra too, great bunch of players.
That piece, Rachmaninoff's 3rd Piano Concerto, always leaves me in sheer awe, completely breathless.
Not bad, I love music
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yUJBAX0B2k#t=43
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQX8cvDj6kk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9UkdarSKAg
Original post by The_Lonely_Goatherd
Hey,
I see you've got a bit of advice already from a scientist. Just wanna add that there are NO jobs in music academia at the moment. Even the very best and brightest PhD students who taught me at Oxford are struggling to get postdocs and jobs, to the extent that some of them have moved out of academia entirely. Even if there WERE jobs, it's a cut-throat field and you really do have to be the best of the best.
I see you've got a bit of advice already from a scientist. Just wanna add that there are NO jobs in music academia at the moment. Even the very best and brightest PhD students who taught me at Oxford are struggling to get postdocs and jobs, to the extent that some of them have moved out of academia entirely. Even if there WERE jobs, it's a cut-throat field and you really do have to be the best of the best.
Are there possibilities for working as an academic abroad? British educational achievement is generally well received elsewhere in the world in many fields, don't know about musicology, etc.
As above, its a very hard road to travel, with multiple set backs and no guarantee of reward.
There is no automatic funding at postgraduate level like Student Funding - and Masters funding outside STEM subjects has dried up completely. This means that you will have to borrow money or wait until you've saved it to pay the fees/support yourself for a year. There is no guarantee that this will lead on to a PhD as opportunities are rare in Arts subjects and there is practically no finding - can you afford to either support yourself for a further 3 years or do it part-time whilst trying to cope with a full-time job/domestic life?
And at the end of this financial struggle, there are no jobs in academia. Music is a tiny field with tiny depts. That means that only 2 or 3 post will come up every year in the whole of the UK (check out www.jobs.ac.uk for what is currently availiable and you'll see the problem) many of which won't be in your research area (ie. Tudor court music when your specialism is modern jazz etc). Normally you would have to start off doing hourly/temp teaching then work your way up through teaching posts at increasingly 'better' Unis all over the country (with your partner squealing 'but I've just got a job here!). And there will be hundreds of other people just as well qualified chasing every job you might apply for so you could go through all of this and never get a job at a University at all. What do you do with a PhD in Music then? Teach at a secondary school? You could have done that without bothering with a Masters/PhD at all.
Its great having an ambition, but you do have to be very realistic about your chances. And btw, 'being an academic' isn't all about gazing into the middle distance, playing music and being 'clever'. Academic spend most of their time either teaching undergraduates or sat in endless admin committees, often at 6pm when they could think of far better things to be doing. I suggest you get to Uni and take a very long hard look at the life of your tutors - its not all as rosy as you might think.
There is no automatic funding at postgraduate level like Student Funding - and Masters funding outside STEM subjects has dried up completely. This means that you will have to borrow money or wait until you've saved it to pay the fees/support yourself for a year. There is no guarantee that this will lead on to a PhD as opportunities are rare in Arts subjects and there is practically no finding - can you afford to either support yourself for a further 3 years or do it part-time whilst trying to cope with a full-time job/domestic life?
And at the end of this financial struggle, there are no jobs in academia. Music is a tiny field with tiny depts. That means that only 2 or 3 post will come up every year in the whole of the UK (check out www.jobs.ac.uk for what is currently availiable and you'll see the problem) many of which won't be in your research area (ie. Tudor court music when your specialism is modern jazz etc). Normally you would have to start off doing hourly/temp teaching then work your way up through teaching posts at increasingly 'better' Unis all over the country (with your partner squealing 'but I've just got a job here!). And there will be hundreds of other people just as well qualified chasing every job you might apply for so you could go through all of this and never get a job at a University at all. What do you do with a PhD in Music then? Teach at a secondary school? You could have done that without bothering with a Masters/PhD at all.
Its great having an ambition, but you do have to be very realistic about your chances. And btw, 'being an academic' isn't all about gazing into the middle distance, playing music and being 'clever'. Academic spend most of their time either teaching undergraduates or sat in endless admin committees, often at 6pm when they could think of far better things to be doing. I suggest you get to Uni and take a very long hard look at the life of your tutors - its not all as rosy as you might think.
Original post by Fullofsurprises
Are there possibilities for working as an academic abroad? British educational achievement is generally well received elsewhere in the world in many fields, don't know about musicology, etc.
There's a little bit more scope I think, but it's still a very tough market
5 years on and I've never seen such dross in my life with these responses. Just full of negativity for someone aspiring to push and pour their passion in to an artistic pursuit; dumbed down by people claiming to be better via being involved with the ominous 'sciences'. I'm about to finish my PhD in Music Composition with a full Engineer scholarship and have had countless great professional opportunities during the PhD (even winning an international award for my research in Music). I would advise those negative responders to do your research before having an opinion, when giving out future advice.
(edited 3 years ago)
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