Street Harrasment

sometimes if you are a man and you see a really hot girl you can't help but approach her or whislte it should be viewed as a compliment

My understanding has come to change over the years. You can't grasp or know the psychological affect of something straight away.

I have been harrassed literally hundreds of times.
I am not especially good looking, but I walk alone and am unusual/exotic, small, young, innocent looking. I don't often get called sexy or have people say overtly lewd things to me, they tend to stay about two feet away and talk relatively softly with a big smile. They want to persuade me gently. They want to know my name, talk to me for a bit, tell me about themselves, get my number - oh no no, don't worry! Nothing like that, just to be friends! But I am very beautiful, they also want me to know that, for it to be clear how attracted to me they are.

If someone says 'hello', my natural response is to look at them, smile and say 'hello' back. I had to learn quickly not to do that or they wouldn't stop following me for streets. If it's obviously a pick-up attempt, I try to avoid making eye contact or giving any information about myself. Often they would still follow me for streets anyway. I can't just completely ignore people, it's difficult, it's not in my nature and I never know why they might want/need to talk to me. Even though 90% of the time it wouldn't be genuine, if someone comes up to me and asks for the time or directions - I will always take them at face value and treat them how I'd want to be treated. Some notable snippets (although I'm cutting out all the filler and only putting the craziest parts, it will always involve complimenting me for example but that's not interesting):

The Watchers

Nothing more unsettling than being told you've been watched. They all say "I've been watching you", never any variation. I am clearly not an observant person at all, I never notice. So far they've turned out not to be dangerous though. They watch me, make their approach, try really hard not accepting 'no' for an answer for ages then eventually just accept it and never approach me again.

After following me walking, talking for a while while - just the usual:
Gumpo: Where do you live? (we're near my street, I'm walking the wrong direction now to avoid him finding out)
Me: I don't want to tell you that.
Him: I live at *address*, *instructions of how to get there*. I know you live around here, I've been watching you. I see you on these streets all the time but I haven't figured out where you live yet. Is it *street*?
Me: I don't want to tell you that.
Him: Are you sure I can't have your number? Just to get coffee? We could be friends!
Me: No, I'm sorry, I don't think we should be friends. I have to get home.
Him: I really like you.
Me: I know but..
Him: No, believe me, I really like you.
Me: I know..
Him: NO, believe me. I really like you!
Me: I have to get home.
Him: Belieeve me, I really like you!
Me: *no response, feeling very uncomfortable by now*
Him: But okay, I can see you're not going to talk to me... Bye.

I had to talk around backstreets for ages before I felt safe to go back to my house without being seen.
He approached me one more time after that, tried again, then concluded that maybe I was from a really religious household and not allowed to talk to guys. I said yes (not true) and he respected that so I didn't see him again.

Terry is drinking outside the pub that I actually live right next to, he says hello and I respond. After talking to me for a bit:
Him: Where do you live?
Me: *hesitates - weighs up the situation, I'm really tired and he could be there quite some time* Uh, well, here actually, this house.
Him: *breaks into a huge smile* Yeah, I already knew that. I've been watching you. I just wanted to see if you would lie to me.
The conversation went on as you'd expect, I didn't want to meet up and he accepted this faster than most to be fair to him at least.

Approached on the street, following me talking:
Felix: Where do you live? I know it's in Peckham but I don't know where.
Me: I don't want to tell you that.
Him: I've been watching you. I see you on these streets all the time. Why do you go to Croydon? Do you work there? Visit family?
Me: I don't want to tell you anything.
Him: Why are you always walking down this street? You should get the bus.
Me: I feel like it. It's good for you.
Him: Can I put £50 on your Oyster card? A girl like you shouldn't have to walk.
Me: No thank you, I could never accept that.
Him: Please? Next time I see you, I want you to be on a bus. Honestly, I just want to give it to you.
Me: I really can't accept that.
Him: I want to, you really shouldn't have to walk.
Me: Next time I'll take a bus, but I won't accept that anything from you.
He continued to try and get my name, number, offered me a job at his hair salon, until eventually he gave up.

I'm standing outside a train station waiting for friends, they are really late.
Woman: Excuse me, I know this might sound weird but there is a man across the tram stops watching you and I really don't like it. Do you mind if I stand with you?
Me: Oh, really? No, I don't mind.
Woman: I wouldn't normally do anything like this, but he's really proper staring at you. I've got two kids myself and you just never know. Are you waiting for someone?
etc., normal conversation followed until my friends arrived.

Men with Cars

I get honked at and shouted at from cars, usually I don't actually know what they shouted - often I have headphones on. A few times if the street has been quiet, cars have stopped to ask for directions which leads to asking to take me out or offering me a lift. Not often though.

One time on an actual main busy road while I was at a bus stop:
Car has stopped in front of me at nearby red traffic lights: Hey! Can I talk to you for a minute?
Me: I'm sorry, I don't think I should talk to you.
Him: Oh hey, it's okay - I'm a really nice guy. What's your name?
Me: I don't want to talk to you, sorry.
*the lights have changed, he's now holding up cars behind him*
Him: I just want to talk to you, that's all.
Me: You can't do this, you're holding up traffic.
Him: What's your name?
*cars are honking at him now - he drives away and down a sidestreet so he can turn around and come back the other direction and stop again opposite me across the street*
Him: Hey! Won't you at least just talk to me?
*cars are held up behind him again, everyone at the bus stop is staring at me too*
Me: No, I'm not going to talk to you. You're holding up cars! You have to go!
*he drives on and down a sidestreet so he can turn around back to the direction he was going again.*
As he drove past me, this time he didn't say anything having accepted I wouldn't talk but he drove really slowly (still slowing down traffic) staring at me hard as though he wanted to drink me in while he still could. This made me feel very uncomfortable, an object for his pleasure, he wasn't even trying to pretend to treat me as a person anymore.

It's quite late and the roads are relatively clear. I'm walking along and I get to a bit of pavement that is a lot wider. A car just drives onto the pavement and stops next to me.
Him: Do you know how to get to Crystal Palace?
Me: Oh, aah... I should know this... *thinking* I actually don't, I'm sorry.
Him: Oh, that's okay. What's your name?
Me: I don't give personal details to strangers.
etc. etc. for a while until I start walking again refusing to continue talking saying 'sorry, I'm going now'
*he drives onward and turns down a road someway several streets along, I keep walking thinking that was that*
As I get to passing the first turning he drives right in front of me, having gone down backstreets to reappear as I crossed it.
He tries again to get me to give him my number, I won't. He drives away - in the direction he first came from, meaning that when he first stopped next to me he'd already been following me driving out of his way. I felt very uncomfortable and got a bus.

"really nice guys"

I don't know why, but literally most men have used the exact same wording when trying to persuade me to stop wanting them to leave me alone. They are all "really nice guys" not just nice, or kind, or genuine, or men, or any other words. It's strange. Not everyone that approaches me does, and the kind of people that don't make me uncomfortable never do - except one perhaps but I'll get to that. I often say I don't give information to/talk to strangers, this never works because "everyone is a stranger when you first meet them". I also say I have a boyfriend, back when I didn't they somehow always knew and said "no you don't", and when I did have one they just didn't care. There is also something I refer to as 'the drop'. This is the moment that a street man gives up on his conquest, instantly you can see the big smile disappear and their whole manner change. It is very disconcerting to see a sudden change once they stop caring about how they come across. Sometimes they then become aggressive, usually in my case they just walk away. Either way, I am always honestly myself so it's uncomfortable when people who interact with me blatantly aren't. Most times they just follow me for ages and give up, sometimes they have been more sinister.

I was on a bus home that takes about an hour. A man was already on it. He starts talking to me, I don't want to talk to him. He tells me all kinds of things about himself, employs every tactic to try and get me to change my mind. This continues for the full hour while I won't respond to his questions, I'm getting increasingly uncomfortable. When we're approaching my stop:
Mike: Where are you getting off?
Me: *no response*
Him: I'm getting off at *stop*
Me: *no response but this is my stop so I must flinch with discomfort and he sees it*
Him: That's your stop too, isn't it? Where do you live? I live at *address*, *instructions of how to get there* (it's similarly close to the stop but in the opposite direction of my house). You know the place?
Me: I don't want to tell you where I live, that's very personal.
Him: But we could be friends.
Me: I don't want to be friends, I already have enough, I'm sorry.
I decide to get off the bus, since he already knows it's my stop anyway and I want to get home. He follows me pleading with me, I am trying to ignore him. I get to the crossing that I'm going to cross. He can tell I'm going to and gets a bit more desperate sounding
Him: *big smile* Please? Just at least tell me your name? We could be good friends! Just your name?
Me: *feeling very uncomfortable* ... I told you, I have a boyfriend.
Him: *the drop, smile gone, shouting, aggressive tone and expression* Oh yeah?! Okay BYE! *storms off*
Seriously?! For an entire hour I politely told you to leave me alone and you get annoyed at ME as though I was being rude and unreasonable. I felt so awful.

I was at a bus stop catching a bus to meet my boyfriend at the coach station. A man starts talking to me, the usual, he's also a really nice guy obviously, but doesn't care I'm taken.
Shimu (sp): Where do you live? Is it around here?
Me: I don't tell people where I live.
Him: I live at *address*, *instructions to get there - it's almost within viewing distance from the bus stop* Right behind the phone box, you know it?
Me: .. Yeah.
Him: You should come and visit me. Bring some of your friends.
Me: I wouldn't want to do that, and my boyfriend wouldn't like it if I did.
Him: Why not? He should come too, then if he has a problem he can talk to me about it. In my house. (It came across threatening in tone)
Me: *backs away* ... I don't want to keep talking to you...
*a bus arrives*
Him: Is this your bus?
Me: *no response, but after the other people get on when it might be close to leaving I start walking towards it as though it is my bus hoping he might get on without me*
Him: *walks towards it, sees what I'm doing, doesn't get on*
That's not your bus, is it? I'm getting *bus numbers*.
Me: *flinch, those are my buses*
Him: You are too, aren't you?
Me: I don't want to talk to you, I'm going to meet my boyfriend.
Him: I just want to be your friend, you seem like such a lovely girl. Are you sure I can't have your number?
He ended up getting on the same bus as me, still talking to me trying while I ignored him until he got off a few stops later thankfully.

I very rarely spot anyone until they actually approach me and say something. This guy was an exception. He was all the way across a wide intersection but somehow I saw him in the corner of my eye without turning or looking at him and thought 'he's going to follow me'. He ran across, started talking to me. The usual, I wouldn't tell him anything, he told me all about himself instead being kind, complimenting me a lot and trying to change my mind. He's a really nice guy. He found out I was from Croydon and that I went to Goldsmiths university (because he was and also did, so he saw it in my flinching when he said!). He could tell it wasn't working, I was starting to walk faster and he was getting out of breath trying to keep up and talk to me at the same time, he got desperate and said that actually he was an orphan - his entire family was dead. That could be true, but I doubt it and think that is disgusting to claim your family is dead to try and get a sympathy pull. I said 'I'm sorry to hear that' anyway just in case because I'm not a heartless bitch. After a long while he just dropped the act and showed his anger.

Him: It is your fault, you know that? Everyone that sees you will either follow you or want to follow you and it is your fault.
Me: *shocked and upset, how did he know people follow me all the time? I turn and actually look at him to talk now, his expression is angry* What do you mean it's my fault? How?!
Him: It is your fault.
Me: Is it the way I dress? Is it because I walk around alone? How is it my fault?
Him: It is your fault.
Me: How?!
Him: It is your fault.
Me: *turns back away, walks even faster*
Him: Well, can I at least see your face one more time then?
Me: *that question made me feel hideously violated, wouldn't look at him*
Him: You won't even let me see your face?!
We get to a bus stop and I stop to wait for a bus. He stops too, then I start walking to the next stop.
Him: Aw, no, it's okay - I'll walk on, you can get your bus here.
I ignore him and keep walking.

Now, that whole exchange really really f**king distressed me. I didn't fully realise why or how until much later. When you are harrassed on the street against your will, your humanity is taken away from you and you are an object that the other person can choose to be involved with regardless of what you think or feel. The fact that he asked to 'at least' see my face was disgusting because it was like I was just holding pleasure for him. No. No. NO. Then, when we were at the bus stop, that was also offensively dehumanising because although he recognised that he had messed up his interaction with me by getting angry so it was justifiable that I wouldn't want to be near him, so he thought he was just being kind by offering to move instead - it still comes from the basic premise that we were involved with each other, that we had an informal relationship. I had not decided this, he had, that takes away my humanity. Where I go and what I do is nothing to do with him, he felt like it was just because he had decided without me.
I cried when I got home, as I often have.

These men are not consciously aware that this is what they are doing or how dehumanising it is. I do not blame any of them individually, I'm not stupid enough to believe like so many do that humans are separated into 'good' and 'bad', everyone is equal and affected by their environments and upbringings. This is a problem of society.

Not everyone who approaches me harrasses me.
I have had quite a lot of what I would call instead 'street conversations' with men who may have approached me because they found me attractive but were different in their mannerisms. They treated me like a human being, I don't know how to explain or describe it but it must be because of a genuine psychological difference in the way they view and interact with women as actual people. I was made to feel like they were not sure I would want to talk to them (because I am a separate person to them so they can't know), but were intrigued enough to ask me if I would. You might wonder how, since most men who approach me say 'hey can I talk to you for a minute' anyway - but with most of them, you can feel you are not really a person, they have already decided anyway despite what they're saying; and with the ones that don't, you can tell. So to them, I don't mind saying 'yeah okay, but only talk, I'm taken/not interested in more'. It is NOTHING to do with how 'attractive' they were. Some of the people I have had pleasant street conversations with included: an overweight 16 year old, an ex-con with messed up teeth, two homeless people, a professional young Indian man, an alien conspiracy theorist called Chris Brown (lol), a middle aged nudist bus driver (wasn't naked at the time hah)
I like people, all kinds of people. If someone is genuine in their intentions I am not going to be mean to them. If someone isn't somehow or is viewing me in a distorted way, I really don't like being forced to feel like I am being mean to them simply by defending my freedom and humanity.

I only just saw this recently so it doesn't have anything to do with any of my opinions expressed above, but it's interesting anyway. I don't think anyone consciously thinks of places as 'men's spaces', but you can't deny that hundreds of years of social history would have some lasting impact when street harrassment clearly isn't right and clearly happens:
Picture explaining street harrassment

Man, I have stories for miles... Some of them much worse than these, one leading to a man getting a 7 year prison sentence. But I should stop. Maybe I'll make another post sometime explaining how it IS actually all about control and I have proof for this, nothing to do with how you dress or normal sexual desire.

wow

where do you live ? egypt ?

I've never seen any woman getting harassed in the ways talked about in this thread except a model having a car horn beeped at her (though I think it was mainly because she stepped out in fron of the car). I've seen numerous girls be successfully chatted up from people randomly approaching them.

I think its the same with most men. We know that 1 time out of 10, approaching a girl will be successful, and we're constantly told the only way to 'get girls' is to practice approaching them until you are comfortable and have worked up a bit of confidence. I accept that if women are approached very frequently, it is understandable that in their eyes confidence turns to obnoxiousness even with the most attractive and charming men. However women need to understand that just as a man has no way of knowing whether a girl wants to talk to him, he also doesn't know whether she might go out with him. That's the point of talking to her: to find out. Unfortunately, there isn't another way to find out if a girl likes you than taking the risk of annoying her. If you want your problem to go away, first you need to come up with a solution to our problem. As for not knowing whether guys are genuine, it's only common sense to put on an act of what you think the person you're talking to wants to see, so don't judge people for that.

As for the bolded part, I don;t have to to do anything I don't want to.

You can do or not do whatever you want, just don't pretend you have a right to complain about a problem that you are contributing to.

How on earth am I contributing to being harassed?

edit: not to mention you completely ignored the rest of my post.

The rest of your post was duly noted and I agree with it, except that sometimes putting pressure on a girl causes her to relent so its like I said, taking a risks What do you mean by that?. You have to take risks to be successful, and that sometimes means harmless advances coming across as harassment. Harassment is harassment, if a guy asks for my number and I say no I am not interested and walk away and he then starts following me home constantly asking for my phone number then that is harassment I have made it clear I want him to leave me alone.

And I don't mean you personally, I mean women in general: if there were an easier way of pursuing women that didn't mean harassing them in the street actually worked well for many people, then we wouldn't do it. I'm distinguishing here between pure harassment like groping, and harassment that occurs from poor technique in chatting up women (or as women would see it, poor interpersonal skills). Obviously groping can't possibly be construed as a sexual advance with any possible chance of success. Although having said that, in the context of a nightclub I've seen it work wonders.

sometimes if you are a man and you see a really hot girl you can't help but approach her or whislte it should be viewed as a compliment

I've never seen any woman getting harassed in the ways talked about in this thread except a model having a car horn beeped at her (though I think it was mainly because she stepped out in fron of the car). I've seen numerous girls be successfully chatted up from people randomly approaching them.

I think its the same with most men. We know that 1 time out of 10, approaching a girl will be successful, and we're constantly told the only way to 'get girls' is to practice approaching them until you are comfortable and have worked up a bit of confidence.

I accept that if women are approached very frequently, it is understandable that in their eyes confidence turns to obnoxiousness even with the most attractive and charming men. However women need to understand that just as a man has no way of knowing whether a girl wants to talk to him, he also doesn't know whether she might go out with him. That's the point of talking to her: to find out. Unfortunately, there isn't another way to find out if a girl likes you than taking the risk of annoying her. If you want your problem to go away, first you need to come up with a solution to our problem. As for not knowing whether guys are genuine, it's only common sense to put on an act of what you think the person you're talking to wants to see, so don't judge people for that.

As for the last part, what is it exactly you expect or want women to do about it? I just want to go about my daily life, if someone wants to approach me then so be it I'll accept that but I have no obligation to be interested in that person. I will be friendly and I will be polite up until the point they start harassing me and don't take no im not interested for an answer.

Also basically all of my friends are men and not one of them would see pressuring a woman into handing over her phone number as acceptable. Perhaps the men who do this need to take a look at themselves and what it is they could be doing wrong rather than blaming women for not being interested in them. No one is obligated to be interested in anybody.

Do not practice approaching women in the street. They are not there for your amusement.

You will not get "more successful", you will just get creepier, and creepier, and creepier.

Successful men (aka normal men) do not approach women in the street at all. I suggest you take this on board.

Look: there are times when it is acceptable to speak to women, normally when someone has said "have you met my friend laura", or if you're in a bar and she has given you a big smile and turned to face you.

There are times when it is not, for example in the street, or if she is avoiding eye contact.

I want you to stop complaining, and realise that harassment is a natural part of the learning process for men chatting up women. Yes, it has obviously gone too far when someone pursues you down the street repeatedly asking for something you don't want to give, but a little pressure is fair play: like I said, just because you say you don't want to give him your number doesn't mean you won't end up giving it to him anyway I won't give it to him, and many women who out right state they do not want to give their number mean it, harassing them into giving it you is not okay they will probably just give you a fake number or ignore any texts or calls because guess what, they didn't want to ****ing give it to you in the first place but you pressured and scared them into doing it. Plenty of relationships arise from persistent following that doesn't cross the line into actual harassment.



Except they're doing nothing 'wrong', they're honing their skills. Apart from a few unlucky ones, I think its safe to say that the majority of men will go on to get a girlfriend from approaching girls who might at first be reluctant. That's how the courting process works: the man has to convince the woman that he is worth it, which invariably means persistence. You can't expect every man to get it perfectly right, and it doesn't seem like a major problem to simply accept that sometimes there will be a few who don't know where the limit is (take it from me, I have had more than my fair share of harassment by people who don't know where the limit is, if not quite in this particular context, and it really doesn't do you any harm to realise that people are different, and they often don't mean any offence by doing things you consider offensive).

A little assertiveness on your part, combined with a bit of education on his part, is the solution to that problem, but NOT trying to convince men that pressuring women is wrong. I say again: maybe not on you, but on many girls, it WORKS, so any disrespectfulness involved is irrelevant: it clearly can't be too bad.

I'm sorry but I cannot even take you seriously now, you are condoning harassment and calling it "natural process". I am not going to stop complaining because when men harass me it scares me, but I guess that doesn't matter to you?

People like you disgust me, I am not an object for people to pressure into anything.

Edit: And to the bolded part, never has my assertion worked against harassers I have told them to go away and leave me alone and they haven't, I have told them they are making me feel uncomrfortable and they gave no ****s they have continued to pursue me and make me feel very uncomfortable and at times scared.

But of course there is nothing wrong with that according to you. Who cares if I'm scared, the guy just wants a shag what harm in that right?