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By that point, they are probably going to me more interested in you as a student, how you have developed during undergrad and what you are now, not just where your A-Levels took you to.
Not saying it does not matter where you studied undergrad: you won't be going from University of East London to Cambridge in a hurry. However, I don't think you should get too hung up on it. Your bachelors is just a foot in the door into the subject
Not saying it does not matter where you studied undergrad: you won't be going from University of East London to Cambridge in a hurry. However, I don't think you should get too hung up on it. Your bachelors is just a foot in the door into the subject
Original post by say x
If you did your bachelors in a non-russel group uni, would it be very diffficult to apply for any postgraduate course at top universities like cambridge, oxford, lse etc?
I can't see why it would be. If you have a good bachelors which meet any requirements that might be laid out there should be no more difficulty than if you went to an RG university and were applying.
Original post by say x
If you did your bachelors in a non-russel group uni, would it be very diffficult to apply for any postgraduate course at top universities like cambridge, oxford, lse etc?
Which university specifically do you have in mind? And for what subject?
The lower tier your university, the more important it is to get top grades.
If you went to a post-1992 and got grades that put you in the top 5 people in your year, it would be pretty obvious that you were bright and had went to a university well below your level of ability. However if you only had a 2:1 then it wouldnt look great because you arent showing that you are better than the average student at that university, and everyone knows its much easier to get a 2:1 at somewhere like London Met than it is at Oxford.
On the other hand, if you are at somewhere like Cambridge/Imperial/LSE/etc then getting a 2:1 would be fine for most things, since this is more of an achivement.
So to answer your question, yes, doing a postgraduate degree at a top university with an undergrad degree from somewhere bad is possible, but you need to get very good marks. I dont want to be too reductionist and its not quite this simple, but many people will probably see a first from a low tier university as being equivalent to a 2:1 from a non-elite Russell Group like Manchester/Sussex/etc
If you went to a post-1992 and got grades that put you in the top 5 people in your year, it would be pretty obvious that you were bright and had went to a university well below your level of ability. However if you only had a 2:1 then it wouldnt look great because you arent showing that you are better than the average student at that university, and everyone knows its much easier to get a 2:1 at somewhere like London Met than it is at Oxford.
On the other hand, if you are at somewhere like Cambridge/Imperial/LSE/etc then getting a 2:1 would be fine for most things, since this is more of an achivement.
So to answer your question, yes, doing a postgraduate degree at a top university with an undergrad degree from somewhere bad is possible, but you need to get very good marks. I dont want to be too reductionist and its not quite this simple, but many people will probably see a first from a low tier university as being equivalent to a 2:1 from a non-elite Russell Group like Manchester/Sussex/etc
(edited 9 years ago)
Also 'postgraduate' is an ambigious term. Realisticlaly, you have almost no chance of getting into a decent PhD program directly out of undergrad (or undergrad+masters) from a low-tier unviersity, even with a first (unless you have done something ridiculous like hit 90%+ in all your exams and finished as the top student in your year).
If your undergrad wasnt from a respected place, the usual path for getting into a good PhD program is to first apply for a Masters at a respected Russell Group after you graduate, and then apply to a PhD after you have finished that. The admission procedure for most Masters degrees isnt _that_ competitive, and if you have a first then you will almost certainly get in somewhere good, regardless of how bad your undergrad institution is. Even a high 2:1 is good enough for Masters programs at most Russell Groups outside the top few, so I wouldnt worry too much about getting in somewhere as long as your grades are decent (although a first will certainly help, particularly if you are looking at top places like Oxbridge/Imperial/etc)
If your undergrad wasnt from a respected place, the usual path for getting into a good PhD program is to first apply for a Masters at a respected Russell Group after you graduate, and then apply to a PhD after you have finished that. The admission procedure for most Masters degrees isnt _that_ competitive, and if you have a first then you will almost certainly get in somewhere good, regardless of how bad your undergrad institution is. Even a high 2:1 is good enough for Masters programs at most Russell Groups outside the top few, so I wouldnt worry too much about getting in somewhere as long as your grades are decent (although a first will certainly help, particularly if you are looking at top places like Oxbridge/Imperial/etc)
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by poohat
Also 'postgraduate' is an ambigious term. Realisticlaly, you have almost no chance of getting into a decent PhD program directly out of undergrad (or undergrad+masters) from a low-tier unviersity, even with a first (unless you have done something ridiculous like hit 90%+ in all your exams and finished as the top student in your year).
If your undergrad wasnt from a respected place, the usual path for getting into a good PhD program is to first apply for a Masters at a respected Russell Group after you graduate, and then apply to a PhD after you have finished that. The admission procedure for most Masters degrees isnt _that_ competitive, and if you have a first then you will almost certainly get in somewhere good, regardless of how bad your undergrad institution is. Even a high 2:1 is good enough for Masters programs at most Russell Groups outside the top few, so I wouldnt worry too much about getting in somewhere as long as your grades are decent (although a first will certainly help, particularly if you are looking at top places like Oxbridge/Imperial/etc)
If your undergrad wasnt from a respected place, the usual path for getting into a good PhD program is to first apply for a Masters at a respected Russell Group after you graduate, and then apply to a PhD after you have finished that. The admission procedure for most Masters degrees isnt _that_ competitive, and if you have a first then you will almost certainly get in somewhere good, regardless of how bad your undergrad institution is. Even a high 2:1 is good enough for Masters programs at most Russell Groups outside the top few, so I wouldnt worry too much about getting in somewhere as long as your grades are decent (although a first will certainly help, particularly if you are looking at top places like Oxbridge/Imperial/etc)
thanks for your answer mate! This does sounds like IT IS quite important to go to a relatively okay university for undergraduate at least. The main problem is so far, i have only heard of people getting oxbridge from universities like: Warwick, Bristol, Bath etc.. which tells people that YOU really do have to go to a good uni for bachelor degree if you want to stand any chance of getting into Oxford or Cambridge.
P.S. I'm not saying its impossible to get in from uni like Nottingham, Exeter, its just i haven't heard of it being done.
Original post by TheWaffle
Which university specifically do you have in mind? And for what subject?
Haha , this is exactly the question i was trying to solve before i started this thread
Its a common misconception by school leavers that everyone in academia is as fixated with 'RG' as they are.
At postgrad level, there isn't the same silly snobbery about 'which Uni' - as several people has suggested here, at this level its your academic interests and the work you've done during your undergrad degree that really counts, not the 'brand name' of the Uni you went to.
Anyone with a First or good 2.i, an interesting CV (ie. you did more at Uni that just your degree), and research interests that match those at the other Uni will be well placed for a postgrad degree.
And btw, at postgrad level, you go where the expertise for your subject is, and for the research interests you have developed during your undergrad degree - and that may not be Oxbridge or LSE.
At postgrad level, there isn't the same silly snobbery about 'which Uni' - as several people has suggested here, at this level its your academic interests and the work you've done during your undergrad degree that really counts, not the 'brand name' of the Uni you went to.
Anyone with a First or good 2.i, an interesting CV (ie. you did more at Uni that just your degree), and research interests that match those at the other Uni will be well placed for a postgrad degree.
And btw, at postgrad level, you go where the expertise for your subject is, and for the research interests you have developed during your undergrad degree - and that may not be Oxbridge or LSE.
PS. For Choosing a Subject, read this : http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/wiki/Help_Choosing_a_Subject#I_want_to_go_to_Uni_-_but_I_don.27t__know_what_to_study
Original post by say x
thanks for your answer mate! This does sounds like IT IS quite important to go to a relatively okay university for undergraduate at least. The main problem is so far, i have only heard of people getting oxbridge from universities like: Warwick, Bristol, Bath etc.. which tells people that YOU really do have to go to a good uni for bachelor degree if you want to stand any chance of getting into Oxford or Cambridge.
P.S. I'm not saying its impossible to get in from uni like Nottingham, Exeter, its just i haven't heard of it being done.
P.S. I'm not saying its impossible to get in from uni like Nottingham, Exeter, its just i haven't heard of it being done.
Again, you have to distinguish between a Masters and a PhD. Getting into a top Masters program if you werent at a top university for undergraduate isnt _that_ difficult (assuming you have good grades). Getting into a top funded PhD program is much, much harder. Thats why people typically go the low tier undergrad -> good RG Masters -> PhD route.
(edited 9 years ago)
The name of your uni is not going to matter to admissions tutors but the curriculum is.
If you want to do an MSc in Economics at a top uni for instance, the odds are the MSc will have a lot of advanced maths in it, so the tutor will want to know you have done enough at undergrad to be able to pick it up at the start as the MSc moves too fast to do remedial work. If you went to a mid or lower ranked uni and did a BA Economics option which basically allowed you to choose the modules you wanted and you've done about A-level maths and no higher, then you wouldn't have done the necessary background knowledge to do their MSc so they won't take you. But if say you did BSc Economics with Statistics and you have a module list that includes quite a lot of maths then the admissions tutor will probably ask you what textbooks you used, what topics you've studied and if it sounds like you've done what they need then they will be ok with it, they aren't going to say "oh your past university isn't as good as ours therefore you aren't good enough for us".
It's kind of like football transfers. When Luis Suarez was joining Liverpool, Liverpool didn't say "he plays in the Dutch league which is second rate so he's not going to be good enough for us" they went ok, if he comes to the Premier League he's going to have to be able to do x, y and z to be a force, so lets watch his games and do our due diligence on if he has those skills. Same with Henrik Larsson going from the Scottish league to Barcelona.
The big constraint in terms of studying a Masters at a top uni that often students pre-undergrad don't understand, is the level of fees, you are often talking £15,000 to £25,000. If you think "well surely there must be scholarships that fund that" you may be in for a nasty surprise.
If you want to do an MSc in Economics at a top uni for instance, the odds are the MSc will have a lot of advanced maths in it, so the tutor will want to know you have done enough at undergrad to be able to pick it up at the start as the MSc moves too fast to do remedial work. If you went to a mid or lower ranked uni and did a BA Economics option which basically allowed you to choose the modules you wanted and you've done about A-level maths and no higher, then you wouldn't have done the necessary background knowledge to do their MSc so they won't take you. But if say you did BSc Economics with Statistics and you have a module list that includes quite a lot of maths then the admissions tutor will probably ask you what textbooks you used, what topics you've studied and if it sounds like you've done what they need then they will be ok with it, they aren't going to say "oh your past university isn't as good as ours therefore you aren't good enough for us".
It's kind of like football transfers. When Luis Suarez was joining Liverpool, Liverpool didn't say "he plays in the Dutch league which is second rate so he's not going to be good enough for us" they went ok, if he comes to the Premier League he's going to have to be able to do x, y and z to be a force, so lets watch his games and do our due diligence on if he has those skills. Same with Henrik Larsson going from the Scottish league to Barcelona.
The big constraint in terms of studying a Masters at a top uni that often students pre-undergrad don't understand, is the level of fees, you are often talking £15,000 to £25,000. If you think "well surely there must be scholarships that fund that" you may be in for a nasty surprise.
Original post by poohat
Again, you have to distinguish between a Masters and a PhD. Getting into a top Masters program if you werent at a top university for undergraduate isnt _that_ difficult (assuming you have good grades). Getting into a top funded PhD program is much, much harder. Thats why people typically go the low tier undergrad -> good RG Masters -> PhD route.
Yeah, that is absolutely true! My friend told me its relatively simple to get into a good uni for Masters than bachelor and that because mainly Masters are SELF-FUNDED-in another word, its an extra income to the uni if you do a master degree there.
However, i just feel your options are much wider if you do end up in a RG uni for undergrad at least, from what i heard from most people-IT IS your bachelor degree that is more important to your employer than your Postgrad-obviously because that's what your opted for in the first place and what you spend your LONGEST time on
Original post by kingzebra
Yeah but Lancaster is an amazing Uni and is ranked much higher than most of the Russell groups....
that's why its on the top of my mission list atm
Original post by say x
that's why its on the top of my mission list atm
A lot of people who put Cambridge as their firm choice, put Lancaster as their insurance! If you got a 1st in a good degree at Lancaster, the majority of people would be very impressed and I'm very sure you could do post-grad at Cambridge or anywhere else you want!
Original post by say x
thanks for your answer mate! This does sounds like IT IS quite important to go to a relatively okay university for undergraduate at least. The main problem is so far, i have only heard of people getting oxbridge from universities like: Warwick, Bristol, Bath etc.. which tells people that YOU really do have to go to a good uni for bachelor degree if you want to stand any chance of getting into Oxford or Cambridge.
P.S. I'm not saying its impossible to get in from uni like Nottingham, Exeter, its just i haven't heard of it being done.
P.S. I'm not saying its impossible to get in from uni like Nottingham, Exeter, its just i haven't heard of it being done.
It is absolutely NOT that important. This is coming from someone who went to a crappy uni for undergrad and got offers from 4 top unis for postgrad. Every single one of them required me to get the same grades as everyone else - including Oxbridge undergrads.
You can find plenty of people who have been through the same thing. Many of these even going on to do postgrad at Oxbridge.
Just focus on getting the grades and doing the best you can. The ranking of the uni only matters to a select few people (many of whom reside on this forum so...)
Original post by say x
If you did your bachelors in a non-russel group uni, would it be very diffficult to apply for any postgraduate course at top universities like cambridge, oxford, lse etc?
No- getting a masters offer is not difficult, getting any funding is.
Original post by say x
which tells people that YOU really do have to go to a good uni for bachelor degree if you want to stand any chance of getting into Oxford or Cambridge.
P.S. I'm not saying its impossible to get in from uni like Nottingham, Exeter, its just i haven't heard of it being done.
P.S. I'm not saying its impossible to get in from uni like Nottingham, Exeter, its just i haven't heard of it being done.
Don't fixate on Oxbridge or "top universities" at postgrad level - find out which are the best for your specialism and go where the experts are. For example, Oxford and Cambridge would have been spectacularly useless for me as they don't have any focus on my corner of research.
One Oxford department I've experienced has stagnated over the past thirty years and nobody in their right mind would do a postgrad there. The department's now staffed either by people who've been there for thirty years or their former students.
University status should be secondary to finding the right department for your interests and the right people to supervise you.
Transferring between "levels" of uni is easy at postgrad and a "good" uni is no guarantee of success elsewhere. I did my undergrad at a former poly and colleagues have done Masters courses at Oxford and UCL. I did my Masters at an RG uni and only one of us who graduated with a Distinction has managed to land a funded PhD. Their application was boosted by a year and a half of free research interning while their partner paid the bills.
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