accurate view of British Universities by outsiders ?

This is the World University rankings from Shanghai which gives us an accurate picture of how the rest of the world thinks/feels about our institutions. Here in the UK we put emphasis on student satisfaction.

http://www.shanghairanking.com/World-University-Rankings-2014/UK.html

So is this an accurate view or not?

Reply 1

cole-slaw

5

Some of them are very obviously wrong, for example Dundee ahead of a frequent top 10 university like Bath.

Reply 2

HarrietGilbraith

8

The top three seem okay, but I would put Exeter much higher.

Reply 3

Mackay

17

Warwick should be higher, too.

Reply 4

Clip

19

Why are you guys saying x, y or z should be higher when it's the measure under someone else's criteria?

It's like ranking universities alphabetically and then arguing that Aber shouldn't come before Durham.

Reply 5

08jogon

Lancaster's miles off as well

Reply 6

cole-slaw

5

Original post by Clip

Why are you guys saying x, y or z should be higher when it's the measure under someone else's criteria?

It's like ranking universities alphabetically and then arguing that Aber shouldn't come before Durham.

The point is, if foreign people think that mid-table university like Dundee is a better university than a top 10 university like Bath, then all we can accurately conclude is the foreign people don't really know what they're talking about.

Original post by cole-slaw

The point is, if foreign people think that mid-table university like Dundee is a better university than a top 10 university like Bath, then all we can accurately conclude is the foreign people don't really know what they're talking about.

Is that a surprise, that people not from this country have little knowledge of the comparative strengths and weaknesses of the 100+ universities we have? The vast majority of people in this country would struggle in that area, let along foreigners!

Reply 8

golden tribe

OP

15

Original post by cole-slaw

The point is, if foreign people think that mid-table university like Dundee is a better university than a top 10 university like Bath, then all we can accurately conclude is the foreign people don't really know what they're talking about.

Maybe Dundee is better then Bath

I

Reply 9

golden tribe

OP

15

Original post by 08jogon

Lancaster's miles off as well

Lancaster is not that good

the only reason why it is high in british leagues is due to high student satisfaction

Reply 10

golden tribe

OP

15

Original post by Smack

Is that a surprise, that people not from this country have little knowledge of the comparative strengths and weaknesses of the 100+ universities we have? The vast majority of people in this country would struggle in that area, let along foreigners!

It is not knowing but rather what they think. I personally think that the best Universities in the UK are Imperial college followed by LSE, but Oxbridge is deemed the best because of what people think. If you compare like for like, then we will get a different table

Reply 11

nulli tertius

21

Original post by cole-slaw

Some of them are very obviously wrong, for example Dundee ahead of a frequent top 10 university like Bath.

Or

Some of them are very obviously wrong, for example Mo Farah a better runner than Usain Bolt because Bolt is on the top 10 list for 100 metre times and Farah isn't.

This is what the Shanghai rankings measure:

ARWU uses six objective indicators to rank world universities, including the number of alumni and staff winning Nobel Prizes and Fields Medals, number of highly cited researchers selected by Thomson Reuters, number of articles published in journals of Nature and Science, number of articles indexed in Science Citation Index - Expanded and Social Sciences Citation Index, and per capita performance of a university.

This is what the CUG on which Bath is 9th measures

Student Satisfaction

Research Assessment

Entry Standards

Student Staff Ratio

Academic Services Spend

Facilities Spend

Good Honours

Graduate Prospects

Completion

Reply 12

cole-slaw

5

Original post by nulli tertius

Or

Some of them are very obviously wrong, for example Mo Farah a better runner than Usain Bolt because Bolt is on the top 10 list for 100 metre times and Farah isn't.

This is what the Shanghai rankings measure:

This is what the CUG on which Bath is 9th measures

Neither of which tell you anything useful whatsoever, but then we all knew that anyway.

Reply 13

golden tribe

OP

15

Original post by nulli tertius

Or

This is what the Shanghai rankings measure:

This is what the CUG on which Bath is 9th measures

The Shanghai rankings are based on an tangible results which actually prove the standard of an institution , for example bad Unis wont have a high number of articles publish on science magazines and wont have also a high number of noble prize winners which prove the credentials of a University.

Compared to our university ranking system which takes into account staff/student ratio, student satisfaction, completion which is important but not that important when considering how good a university is

All in all, the Shanghai system is better and much more realistic

Reply 14

Okorange

17

Original post by golden tribe

This is the World University rankings from Shanghai which gives us an accurate picture of how the rest of the world thinks/feels about our institutions. Here in the UK we put emphasis on student satisfaction.

http://www.shanghairanking.com/World-University-Rankings-2014/UK.html

So is this an accurate view or not?

It depends on how well they know the universities. Any foreigner who actually knows American universities know that the top LACs and smaller Ivies like Brown, Dartmouth, Williams, Amherst, Swarthmore are more prestigious and competitive than most large public institutions like Wash U, NYU, Berkeley for undergrad.

I bet you most people reading this don't actually know that Brown has an acceptance rate of 8.7% which is much lower than some more well recognized unis like NYU or Berkeley which are 35% and 17% respectively. So that is basically it. NYU, Berkeley are your big schools like UCL, Edinburgh. Brown is more like St Andrews.

However, most foreigners don't know that much about US unis, so if they use a world ranking then they won't recognize the prestige that smaller less research intensive universities offer.

Its the exact same. Most foreigners if you ask them will probably know Oxbridge are the best and some will know UCL, Imperial, LSE as top schools. Fewer people will know Manchester, Edinburgh as good schools or well recognized schools. Not many will know Warwick, Durham or St Andrews unless they have some attention focused on the UK.

Big research intensive unis with big city names are going to have an advantage in world recognition.

Bottom line, those rankings are right for most foreigners, but for foreigners who have either considered applying to the UK, or know about UK universities, their rankings will be much closer to that of a domestic student.

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 15

Film

13

Original post by golden tribe

This is the World University rankings from Shanghai which gives us an accurate picture of how the rest of the world thinks/feels about our institutions. Here in the UK we put emphasis on student satisfaction.

http://www.shanghairanking.com/World-University-Rankings-2014/UK.html

So is this an accurate view or not?

2 things which are counted in International rankings are the number of Foreign students and the number of foreign teachers. I don't see how this is important in determining how good a University is.

Reply 16

Okorange

17

Original post by Film

2 things which are counted in International rankings are the number of Foreign students and the number of foreign teachers. I don't see how this is important in determining how good a University is.

Yeah, but they are also a small percentage of the rankings. I agree they should be removed, its clearly written to benefit countries like the UK, Australia and Canada which are currently stuffed with international students. More importantly, it has nothing to do with the universities abilities, it has more to do with how attractive the host country is to international students.

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 17

Yux

13

i suggest to also look at the guardian, times, QS ranking tables as well...the rankings are all different due to different methodologies so instead of relying on solely one ranking table try to look at ALL OF THEM and then make up your mind