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Plato vs Aristotle

Hello, there may be a thread already on these guys but who cares anyway

These two philosophers have ideas that are extremely different from one another.
Such as Aristotle rejecting Plato's idea of the world of the forms, or a dualist approach whereas Aristotle thought that this world was the real world.

So, who is better?

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Reply 1

jon_boy

Phillip

Plato for his style and the parrhesiastic character of Socrates
AND
Aristotle for his ethics (although not for his view on women!)

Reply 2

Phillip

yeah but you know those are the times in which he lived.

I like Plato's God aswell , it justifies why things are somewhat flawed.

Reply 3

jon_boy

Phillip

yeah but you know those are the times in which he lived.

I like Plato's God aswell , it justifies why things are somewhat flawed.

Yeah, don't mean I have to like it though. :smile:

I'm not sure I'm aware with Plato's God, can you divulge more please?!

Reply 4

Phillip

Of course

Plato asserted a demiurge ( so a semi-god, not a full religious God)

Plato basically said that the demiurge was presented with chaotic matter that the demiurge attempted to construct into what we know as the universe.
Because it was a demiurge and because it was given chaotic matter it explains why there are bad things in life and nature that cause suffering.
( Plato never said where the matter came from ).

Aristotle on the other hand asserted a Prime mover that started off the universe and then became transcendent, that is, out of time and space.
The Prime Mover only contemplates itself and is not involved with the universe and therefore relieves itself of responsiblity from its creation.
However, the universe is dependent on the Prime mover's existence.

So, for example Chrisitianity takes two aspects of the two Gods

a) creation
b) Dependence on God's existence

Reply 5

jon_boy

Interesting distinction. I must say I'm somewhat surprised by Plato suggesting something that sounds so subjective!

I must say that i wouldn't really go for either though. Both present an ultimate answer that relieves some of the responsibility off the agent. I mean the whole 'there's bad in the world because of the demigod' sounds a bit of a cop out to be fair. Why cant there just be bad in the world?

Reply 6

Phillip

Well it is also an explanantion and theory as to why bad exists IF you believe in a divine creator. I think Plato was trying to account for why there is suffering etc.

Reply 7

Phillip

* inserts comment to update thread *

Reply 8

Giliwoo

Aristotle's Logic, Plato's metaphysics and ethics.

Why

both equally annoying to study in my opinion.

I liked Platos' idea of the forms for no other reason that it sparks debates of "but is this really homework?" and "it may be homework but is it the perfect form?"
best comment however was someone seeing a fit girl walk down the corridor "now that, is the perfect form of a woman"

I really dislike Aristotle in that he continually contradicts himself throughout the Ethics and i find it near impossible to learn what he is trying to say so that i can critically assess it etc when he changes his mind anyway.

however these are just superficial points, i know neither philosopher in enough depth to have a proper debate.

Reply 11

KingoftheNazgul

All I have to say is PHILOSOPHER KINGS... :biggrin:

Plato hands down!

Reply 12

Consie

Is Plato's god that idea that there are perfect versions of everything and everything we see are corrupted versions of those? I think thats a poor one.

Reply 13

Mercer

Phillip

Of course

On the demiurge thing, I think matter is necessary eternal for a Platonic approach. And the demiurge is not necessarily intended to be believed: it's an image of matter being sculpted by form.

As for Aristotle, you present it rather deistically. It's important that Aristotle's God, when he 'started off' the universe, this wasn't the normal sense of a 'prime mover': it wasn't even conscious. Perfection simply acts as a sort of pull on the world, drawing it to existence. In this sense, Aristotle's God continues this process constantly. There isn't a moment of movement, because the world has always existed for Aristotle.

I would also note that christianity has creation and dependance from Judaism as well as from philosophy.

Reply 14

Mercer

Consie

Is Plato's god that idea that there are perfect versions of everything and everything we see are corrupted versions of those? I think thats a poor one.

That's the bunny.

Aristotle's idea of form doesn't give it seperate existence, which I think works better. I also think that his hylomorphic image of soul still has some life to it.

Reply 15

Melancholy

Why was Giliwoo banned? (Ah, its not the person I thought it was).

Reply 16

Gilliwoo

The_Myth Leader

Why was Giliwoo banned? (Ah, its not the person I thought it was).

He was banned because he got tired of TSR, but came back with another L in his name, and may well be looking to take another long hiatus :p:

Reply 17

Melancholy

Ah, I thought it was a tad bizarre that the names were similar.

Reply 18

happy cola

Plato for anticipating Freudian psychology 2000+ years ahead of time and ACTUALLY WRITING STUFF DOWN PROPERLY.

Aristotle for his effect on later philosophy.