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My issues with statutory rape...
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I don't think statutory rape should be considered rape.
Many people are underestimating the fact that 15 year olds are very much capable of making their own decisions. If I was a month from my 16th birthday and having sex with my 18 or 19 year old boyfriend, people would jump straight in and cry rape but once I hit 16 it's okay? Maturation doesn't take just one month. It takes years. A lot of 14 and 15 year olds are completely capable of making informed decisions about what they want physically and emotionally.
This reminds me of the case with the 15 or 16 year old girl who ran off with her 30 year old maths teacher to France. Many people were claiming she was manipulated, but people also seem to forget that she could have done the manipulating too?
If consent is given, then should age matter ? (Within reason of course)
Many people are underestimating the fact that 15 year olds are very much capable of making their own decisions. If I was a month from my 16th birthday and having sex with my 18 or 19 year old boyfriend, people would jump straight in and cry rape but once I hit 16 it's okay? Maturation doesn't take just one month. It takes years. A lot of 14 and 15 year olds are completely capable of making informed decisions about what they want physically and emotionally.
This reminds me of the case with the 15 or 16 year old girl who ran off with her 30 year old maths teacher to France. Many people were claiming she was manipulated, but people also seem to forget that she could have done the manipulating too?
If consent is given, then should age matter ? (Within reason of course)
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by overthelove
I don't think statutory rape should be considered rape.
Many people are underestimating the fact that 15 year olds are very much capable of making their own decisions. If I was a month from my 16th birthday and having sex with my 18 or 19 year old boyfriend, people would jump straight in and cry rape but once I hit 16 it's okay? Maturation doesn't take just one month. It takes years. A lot of 14 and 15 year olds are completely capable of making informed decisions about what they want physically and emotionally.
This reminds me of the case with the 15 or 16 year old girl who ran off with her 30 year old maths teacher to France. Many people were claiming she was manipulated, but people also seem to forget that she could have done the manipulating too?
If consent is given, then should age matter ? (Within reason of course)
Many people are underestimating the fact that 15 year olds are very much capable of making their own decisions. If I was a month from my 16th birthday and having sex with my 18 or 19 year old boyfriend, people would jump straight in and cry rape but once I hit 16 it's okay? Maturation doesn't take just one month. It takes years. A lot of 14 and 15 year olds are completely capable of making informed decisions about what they want physically and emotionally.
This reminds me of the case with the 15 or 16 year old girl who ran off with her 30 year old maths teacher to France. Many people were claiming she was manipulated, but people also seem to forget that she could have done the manipulating too?
If consent is given, then should age matter ? (Within reason of course)
I completely agree with this. I don't think your scenario of the teacher is great because I don't think any teacher should sleep with their student until their education is finished but I do agree with the principle that age doesn't always mean that a person is vulnerable to manipulation.
The whole 'age doesn't matter (within reason)' is why I think our law is much fairer than the American law. There has to be a cut off point to protect children. At least in the UK it's unlikely that a person will be prosecuted unless the under 16 year old presses charges or they are seriously young. The fact that our law has the cut off point where any sexual activity with someone under 13 is illegal regardless of consent and then the more grey area between 13 and 16 I think strikes an acceptable balance.
Original post by LawSam
It might not be called it and it might not hold the same weight as the US law but it does mean the same thing. A person over the age of 18 can be imprisoned for having sex with someone under 16.
Unlike the American law there's a defence in that the person can claim they didn't know their age. But at the end of the day if that's not accepted, then they can go to prison for it. Arguing that it's not exactly the same thing is splitting hairs. Instead of the American 'will go to prison if found out' it's 'can go to prison'.
On this basis I think our law is much fairer than the American law - which is what I was trying to put across in my earlier points.
If the person is so young emotionally/physically that it is beyond reasonble doubt that they are not 16 then the 18+ person goes to prison as a sexual offender. And in my view they should because it is likely that that child has been manipulated or pressured.
Unlike the American law there's a defence in that the person can claim they didn't know their age. But at the end of the day if that's not accepted, then they can go to prison for it. Arguing that it's not exactly the same thing is splitting hairs. Instead of the American 'will go to prison if found out' it's 'can go to prison'.
On this basis I think our law is much fairer than the American law - which is what I was trying to put across in my earlier points.
If the person is so young emotionally/physically that it is beyond reasonble doubt that they are not 16 then the 18+ person goes to prison as a sexual offender. And in my view they should because it is likely that that child has been manipulated or pressured.
In mine, it's a different law altogether. I think it is unfair to the subtleties of our own legal system and misleading to lump it in with the laws of a completely different country with a different legal system. The presence or lack of a strict/absolute liability strand to an offence alters the entire character of it.
The line simply has to be drawn somewhere that will legally protect most potential victims of being to immature to consent. That's it.
Original post by overthelove
I don't think statutory rape should be considered rape.
Many people are underestimating the fact that 15 year olds are very much capable of making their own decisions. If I was a month from my 16th birthday and having sex with my 18 or 19 year old boyfriend, people would jump straight in and cry rape but once I hit 16 it's okay? Maturation doesn't take just one month. It takes years. A lot of 14 and 15 year olds are completely capable of making informed decisions about what they want physically and emotionally.
This reminds me of the case with the 15 or 16 year old girl who ran off with her 30 year old maths teacher to France. Many people were claiming she was manipulated, but people also seem to forget that she could have done the manipulating too?
If consent is given, then should age matter ? (Within reason of course)
Many people are underestimating the fact that 15 year olds are very much capable of making their own decisions. If I was a month from my 16th birthday and having sex with my 18 or 19 year old boyfriend, people would jump straight in and cry rape but once I hit 16 it's okay? Maturation doesn't take just one month. It takes years. A lot of 14 and 15 year olds are completely capable of making informed decisions about what they want physically and emotionally.
This reminds me of the case with the 15 or 16 year old girl who ran off with her 30 year old maths teacher to France. Many people were claiming she was manipulated, but people also seem to forget that she could have done the manipulating too?
If consent is given, then should age matter ? (Within reason of course)
Position of trust offence. http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2003/42/section/16
Wow, I've only read the thread title and I feel like I'm going to get very pissed
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Original post by donutaud15
I thought the same until it happened to my cousin. Her boyfriend who was 19 at that time (she was 15) also slept with someone who was significantly younger. She realised just how much she was manipulated so he can have sex with young girls.
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I've seen worse, more specifically 15 and 28. Now that scarred her life, and me actually, given that we had broken 2 days prior. That was really disturbing.
Original post by overthelove
I don't think statutory rape should be considered rape.
Many people are underestimating the fact that 15 year olds are very much capable of making their own decisions. If I was a month from my 16th birthday and having sex with my 18 or 19 year old boyfriend, people would jump straight in and cry rape but once I hit 16 it's okay? Maturation doesn't take just one month. It takes years. A lot of 14 and 15 year olds are completely capable of making informed decisions about what they want physically and emotionally.
This reminds me of the case with the 15 or 16 year old girl who ran off with her 30 year old maths teacher to France. Many people were claiming she was manipulated, but people also seem to forget that she could have done the manipulating too?
If consent is given, then should age matter ? (Within reason of course)
Many people are underestimating the fact that 15 year olds are very much capable of making their own decisions. If I was a month from my 16th birthday and having sex with my 18 or 19 year old boyfriend, people would jump straight in and cry rape but once I hit 16 it's okay? Maturation doesn't take just one month. It takes years. A lot of 14 and 15 year olds are completely capable of making informed decisions about what they want physically and emotionally.
This reminds me of the case with the 15 or 16 year old girl who ran off with her 30 year old maths teacher to France. Many people were claiming she was manipulated, but people also seem to forget that she could have done the manipulating too?
If consent is given, then should age matter ? (Within reason of course)
The example you gave kind of contradicts your point and actually is a stronger argument for raising the legal age. Did you not see the drama that came afterwards? First they were going to get married, then she decided never mind, then she dated another 16 year old guy, then she went back to the teacher, then gave up again, and now they're having some magical fairy reunion or something. It's a freakin' mess. Totally incapable of making mature decisions, contrary to your point. Not something I would want any future daughters (or even sons) doing, that's for sure. I know I made some pretty stupid decisions at that age too.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by LawSam
Honestly I think it's over simplifying it to say that a 15 year old isn't old enough and then the next day when they're 16 they are. It's different for every individual. I know some people that emotionally and eduction-wise couldn't really consent to sex at 18. Others were active from 14-15 and they were emotionally mature enough.
At that kind of age though I can't really imagine what an 18 year old guy would want with a 15 year old girl...
I think education and self-empowerment is important. Having sex education from a younger age (I'm thinking proper sex-ed in primary school) and educating young people that it really is okay to progress at your own speed. At my school everything was rushed over in a 2 hour time slot when I was 14. The whole subject was treated like a taboo that no-one wanted to talk about.
Education and openness is necessary. There's always going to be a need for a consent age limit. And there will always be people that don't fit with that limit because everyone is different. I think the current age limit of 16 fits quite well with how pathetic our sexual education is. As far as I'm concerned, if schools aren't even talking to kids about sex until they're 14/15 then most of them could not possibly have enough knowledge to make an informed decision in consenting.
As far as 15 year olds exploring natural urges, I agree. But I think they should be doing it with people their own age, not people 3 or more years older than them with lots more experience that they could be easily pressured and manipulated by.
At that kind of age though I can't really imagine what an 18 year old guy would want with a 15 year old girl...
I think education and self-empowerment is important. Having sex education from a younger age (I'm thinking proper sex-ed in primary school) and educating young people that it really is okay to progress at your own speed. At my school everything was rushed over in a 2 hour time slot when I was 14. The whole subject was treated like a taboo that no-one wanted to talk about.
Education and openness is necessary. There's always going to be a need for a consent age limit. And there will always be people that don't fit with that limit because everyone is different. I think the current age limit of 16 fits quite well with how pathetic our sexual education is. As far as I'm concerned, if schools aren't even talking to kids about sex until they're 14/15 then most of them could not possibly have enough knowledge to make an informed decision in consenting.
As far as 15 year olds exploring natural urges, I agree. But I think they should be doing it with people their own age, not people 3 or more years older than them with lots more experience that they could be easily pressured and manipulated by.
I first had sex ed when I was in y6 before moving into y7 and it was just to tell us about changes that would be happening to our bodies standard stuff. And y7 and y8 I was still getting it. But then I moved house and went to a new school and they didn't have sex-ed teachers available and that really surprised me I was shocked. They only started in y10 with sex ed it was ridiculous so I know what you mean by misinformed. There were also kids in my school particularu this group of girls who were y9's and they were dating y12's and they didn't have any idea about sex or what to expect and I think they were being manipulated. But even their parents were ok with the idea. Real messed up to me.
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You should judge each case individually. It's not just black and white. A 16 y.o and a 15 y.o ok. But a 18 yo with a 15 year old and serious questions should be raised
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Original post by lamyers1
Its to do with their capacity to make a decision, not whether they are stupid. Maturity is a large factor - a child of 13 is not at all mature enough to consent to sex, FULLY understanding the consequences and emotional attachment. Plus, it can be very physically damaging for a 13 year old to carry a child. Whilst they have started puberty, they have not finished it and are not physically or mentally prepared for sexual intercourse.
I know plenty of people who had sex at 13 and they all turned out fine.
We don't have statutory rape in the U.K?
Now i'm confused, cause i swear we did have statutory rape and i thought it only applied to boys/men i.e if a 15 year old bloke sleeps with a 15 year old girl, he committed statutory rape, she did not.
Coulda sworn this is what i was taught in law days.. have the laws changed or am i just way off the mark?
You say serious questions should be raised for an 18 y/o with a 15 y/o.. Just out of curiosity how do you feel about a 40 year old having sex with a 16 year old?
Completely legal in the U.K. Interestingly, people get put away for longer than we put away murderers in the U.S. Well, not people, only men.
Now i'm confused, cause i swear we did have statutory rape and i thought it only applied to boys/men i.e if a 15 year old bloke sleeps with a 15 year old girl, he committed statutory rape, she did not.
Coulda sworn this is what i was taught in law days.. have the laws changed or am i just way off the mark?
Original post by fatherdougal
You should judge each case individually. It's not just black and white. A 16 y.o and a 15 y.o ok. But a 18 yo with a 15 year old and serious questions should be raised
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You say serious questions should be raised for an 18 y/o with a 15 y/o.. Just out of curiosity how do you feel about a 40 year old having sex with a 16 year old?
Completely legal in the U.K. Interestingly, people get put away for longer than we put away murderers in the U.S. Well, not people, only men.
(edited 9 years ago)
You're all using examples of 15 year olds sleeping with 17 year olds etc. What about when 40 year old men sleep with 14 year old girls and the 14 year old consents...does it make it right? Should he be punished? Of course he should. I am glad we have laws in this country to protect the vulnerable. If it was your child, you would feel the same.
Original post by zippity.doodah
I know plenty of people who had sex at 13 and they all turned out fine.
That may be the case, but it doesn't make it right and equally does not mean that they have the capacity to make an informed decision.
Original post by lamyers1
That may be the case, but it doesn't make it right and equally does not mean that they have the capacity to make an informed decision.
informed decision? what are you talking about? sex is sex - all they need to know about is protection and contraception. and surely parents can at least tell their teens about that? what about schools? surely they should teach sex education earlier as opposed to forcing millions of otherwise healthy and sexually active individuals to be celibate?
Original post by zippity.doodah
informed decision? what are you talking about? sex is sex - all they need to know about is protection and contraception. and surely parents can at least tell their teens about that? what about schools? surely they should teach sex education earlier as opposed to forcing millions of otherwise healthy and sexually active individuals to be celibate?
A 13 year old is not physically or mentally mature enough to have a child, and accidents do happen. Just because the child 'consents' doesn't mean that they are actually ready to have sex, and adults can take advantage of that especially when in a position of trust. Would that make it okay for a 23 year old friend of the family to have sex with a 13 year old? No. Its not counted as paedophilia because they are not pre-pubescent, so how so you protect them from this?
Original post by zippity.doodah
informed decision? what are you talking about? sex is sex - all they need to know about is protection and contraception. and surely parents can at least tell their teens about that? what about schools? surely they should teach sex education earlier as opposed to forcing millions of otherwise healthy and sexually active individuals to be celibate?
There is more to making the decision to have sex than whether you're safe from pregnancy or stis.. For example do you actually want to have sex or is your partner making you feel like you owe it to them or have you been made to feel like because you are in a relationship you should be having sex etc
Something which from my experience wasn't talked about in school and should have been
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Original post by lamyers1
A 13 year old is not physically or mentally mature enough to have a child,
got proof? (but just so you know, I'm not, in anyway, encouraging 13 year olds to have children, because obviously the real issue here is money, and I am not in any way in favour of the welfare state having anything to do with it)
and accidents do happen. Just because the child 'consents' doesn't mean that they are actually ready to have sex, and adults can take advantage of that especially when in a position of trust.
again, that's hugely patronising; you're assuming that teens are idiots and that you're a genius over their lives. if an adult has sex with them (and they don't get pregnant, of course) then that's their decision and they can't cry rape for consensual sex. what makes you think you know whether a teen is consenting more than they do, too? magic? or emotive tyranny?
Would that make it okay for a 23 year old friend of the family to have sex with a 13 year old? No. Its not counted as paedophilia because they are not pre-pubescent, so how so you protect them from this?
why not? if they were in puberty and they wanted to do it then I have no idea what your issue is - what if an 88 year old woman had sex with a 16 year old guy? should the 88 year old be arrested because the age gap is even worse than 23 and 13? I think you're just trying to impose your morality here. age gaps, provided there is consent, are none of your business.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by abbymonty
There is more to making the decision to have sex than whether you're safe from pregnancy or stis.. For example do you actually want to have sex or is your partner making you feel like you owe it to them or have you been made to feel like because you are in a relationship you should be having sex etc
Something which from my experience wasn't talked about in school and should have been
Something which from my experience wasn't talked about in school and should have been
parental responsibility is also an element here - parents are in a position to tell their kids these things (e.g. pregnancy and STDs), just like "don't take candy from strangers", "don't get into a car with a strange", etc, are also matters of parental responsibility.
Original post by zippity.doodah
got proof? (but just so you know, I'm not, in anyway, encouraging 13 year olds to have children, because obviously the real issue here is money, and I am not in any way in favour of the welfare state having anything to do with it)
again, that's hugely patronising; you're assuming that teens are idiots and that you're a genius over their lives. if an adult has sex with them (and they don't get pregnant, of course) then that's their decision and they can't cry rape for consensual sex. what makes you think you know whether a teen is consenting more than they do, too? magic? or emotive tyranny?
why not? if they were in puberty and they wanted to do it then I have no idea what your issue is - what if an 88 year old woman had sex with a 16 year old guy? should the 88 year old be arrested because the age gap is even worse than 23 and 13? I think you're just trying to impose your morality here. age gaps, provided there is consent, are none of your business.
again, that's hugely patronising; you're assuming that teens are idiots and that you're a genius over their lives. if an adult has sex with them (and they don't get pregnant, of course) then that's their decision and they can't cry rape for consensual sex. what makes you think you know whether a teen is consenting more than they do, too? magic? or emotive tyranny?
why not? if they were in puberty and they wanted to do it then I have no idea what your issue is - what if an 88 year old woman had sex with a 16 year old guy? should the 88 year old be arrested because the age gap is even worse than 23 and 13? I think you're just trying to impose your morality here. age gaps, provided there is consent, are none of your business.
Someone who is 13 is a child. They may not have started puberty long ago. Their bodies are small, hips haven't widened, chest hasn't developed properly. If you want evidence of it being a risk to carry a child, just google it. Why is the issue money? You cant get money from the state below the age of 16 (watch underage and pregnant for that).
Once people are adults, age gaps matter less. Adults are supposed to protect children, not have sex with them. I cant believe you want me to make an argument for this!
Anyway, ive had enough. If you cant see it carry on, but that doesn't change the law.
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