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Is a Bsc Accounting degree worth doing

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Original post by aliman65
That does not answer my question. All you did was state your friend prefers to hire school leavers and did not state why.


Ah! Because they tend to have more application and commitment to becoming and remaining accountants and have proved to be more reliable in the workplace. They also have longer in the workplace at the end of the training period (i.e. more experience) and are more valuable to the company for that reason. And they don't suffer from lower intelligence or ability to understand, as you seem to think.
Original post by aliman65
I am just stating that they want a 2:1 because it shows the graduate is competent and is less risky to the firm to pay to train them - that is all. If you ran a company, would you not want to hire the graduate over the school leaver - as it is less risky?

I am starting to see everyone's frustration with you, did you even read what I wrote?

So somebody with a 2.1 in film studies is more employable as an accountant, than a school leaver the same age who is probably already qualified if not close, and has relevant work experience? I have met people with 1st in Mathematics that are completely in incompetent. A degree by itself does not prove anything. If I ran an accountancy firm, I would hire people based on interviews and what potential I think they have to succeed, not some irrelevant qualification.

You say the graduate is less risky when in fact it is more likely to be the opposite. School leavers usually require just as good if not better A-levels than people going to university. They are more willing to work hard from the outset because they have not picked up bad habits from skipping 9am lectures and partying all night every night. They still have that going to school everyday mindset. Graduates also tend to have a grass is greener mentality and are comparing themselves to their peers in other industries, i'd argue they are twice as likely to jump ship and go do something else. If I was an accounting firm, i'd be more than happy to take on more school leavers (and they are, school leaver programmes have expanded massively over the past few years).

Having a degree does not mean you are intelligent, it certainly does not mean that those without degrees are stupid.
Original post by Tokyoround
I am starting to see everyone's frustration with you, did you even read what I wrote?

So somebody with a 2.1 in film studies is more employable as an accountant, than a school leaver the same age who is probably already qualified if not close, and has relevant work experience? I have met people with 1st in Mathematics that are completely in incompetent. A degree by itself does not prove anything. If I ran an accountancy firm, I would hire people based on interviews and what potential I think they have to succeed, not some irrelevant qualification.

You say the graduate is less risky when in fact it is more likely to be the opposite. School leavers usually require just as good if not better A-levels than people going to university. They are more willing to work hard from the outset because they have not picked up bad habits from skipping 9am lectures and partying all night every night. They still have that going to school everyday mindset. Graduates also tend to have a grass is greener mentality and are comparing themselves to their peers in other industries, i'd argue they are twice as likely to jump ship and go do something else. If I was an accounting firm, i'd be more than happy to take on more school leavers (and they are, school leaver programmes have expanded massively over the past few years).

Having a degree does not mean you are intelligent, it certainly does not mean that those without degrees are stupid.


"School leavers usually require just as good if not better A-levels than people going to university". You don't even need a maths A-level to train to be a professional accountant. And the UCAS points required is about the equivalent of 3 B grades. That statement is nonsense. The degree is much more than just the content you learn within the degree. Why do you think graduates earn more over time and are more likely to be employed? You say anybody can pass a professional accounting course with practise - would a load of ****. So I could go an ask a 16 year old who struggles with their times tables to do it could I?
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by aliman65
You don't even need a maths A-level to train to be a professional accountant.


How is that relevant? You don't need maths A level to study an English degree, or a languages degree, or a biology degree. These are all courses of study on an academic par with a maths or physics degree. The reason for that is that it isn't useful.

Similarly, A level maths is not very useful for an accountant.
Original post by aliman65
"School leavers usually require just as good if not better A-levels than people going to university". You don't even need a maths A-level to train to be a professional accountant. And the UCAS points required is about the equivalent of 3 B grades. That statement is nonsense. The degree is much more than just the content you learn within the degree. Why do you think graduates earn more over time and are more likely to be employed? You say anybody can pass a professional accounting course with practise - would a load of ****. So I could go an ask a 16 year old who struggles with their times tables to do it could I?

Yes and 3 B grades will get you into a lot of universities. The UCAS requirements varies right up to 360 anyway depending on where you apply for a school leaver scheme. You are missing the point entirely.

A 16 year old that struggles with their times tables is not likely to have sufficient GCSEs to qualify for an AAT apprenticeship.

Once you start working in the real world, you will quickly realise that there are lots of morons with supposedly prestigious degrees, just as there are lots of people without degrees who are extremely intelligent.
Original post by Good bloke
How is that relevant? You don't need maths A level to study an English degree, or a languages degree, or a biology degree. These are all courses of study on an academic par with a maths or physics degree. The reason for that is that it isn't useful.

Similarly, A level maths is not very useful for an accountant.


Why does everyone on here think a degree is worthless? Are you all dropouts or somethings??? If employers love school leavers so much we might as all dropout of university and go get jobs in all the top firms with amazing salaries. You do realise how stupid this argument is??? What is the point of an English degree you might ask - when we all speak English - because it is more than just being able to write an essay!
Original post by aliman65
Why does everyone on here think a degree is worthless? Are you all dropouts or somethings??? If employers love school leavers so much we might as all dropout of university and go get jobs in all the top firms with amazing salaries. You do realise how stupid this argument is??? What is the point of an English degree you might ask - when we all speak English - because it is more than just being able to write an essay!


A degree isn't worthless. It just isn't necessarily especially valuable for a budding accountant, and there are alternative methods of entry that are just as valuable.

Individuals should weigh up whether the time and money involved in gaining a degree is worthwhile for them individual, given their aspirations. It is quicker and cheaper to become a chartered accountant by entering as a school leaver, but less flexible in terms of opportunities to change professions later. An accountancy degree, to my mind, has little to recommend it.

Why are you so obsessed with joining the so-called top firms? The vast majority of accountants are not in these companies and never have been. Yet many still hold top jobs in industry or run their own accountancy consultancies, earning large sums of money and gaining enormous job satisfaction, and they don't have all the unpleasant problems of working in one of these firms to contend with.
Thing is, none of us have actually said degrees are worthless. On it's own yes a degree does not count for much, but it all depends on the overall package and that individuals life experience. Nothing is guaranteed in this world.
Original post by aliman65
Fair enough, just out of curiosity - what is the proportion of graduates to non graduates you work with? And pretty much every job salary increase when you go into London, my examples were out of London salaries that I know people earn.


Hmm well of the people I've been exposed to in finance (probably 60 of the 180) I'd say that around 60-70% have degrees. Bear in mind that we have a much 'older' team.
I do however know for a fact that there are at least 5 finance managers/senior managers who took the AAT route. I wouldn't say it's indicative of the industry as a whole though, because I do work with some real dinosaurs..some of whom don't even have an accounting qualification 😜





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Reply 49
I think Aliman65 suffers from an ailment common in young people called 'one way syndrome.' Sufferers of this syndrome have gathered information from a wealth of poor sources (teachers who have no experience of life outside an academic setting, inaccurate websites and the rumours of their peers, largely sourced from parents whose knowledge is often limited or out of date) and have reached the conclusion that there is only one way to achieve each goal.

Want to be a successful accountant with a six figure salary? Their advice is that you HAVE to do a degree. You HAVE to do ACA because it's best. You HAVE to work for the Big 4.

Or maybe a solicitor. You HAVE to get an LLB. You HAVE to go to a Russell Group University. You HAVE to get a training contract.

It's all rubbish. Solicitors could get where they are doing CILEx and getting fellowship before the LPC to become a solicitor without a degree or a training contract for example.

Acute sufferers of one way syndrome also get themselves bogged down with very strong ideas about degrees. They begin to believe you need one for any career and that it has to be from a Russell Group university. They do this whilst completing ignoring the stark reality that far more people have successful careers than have a degree or went to a Russell Group university.

The syndrome is relatively harmless to the sufferer, as they will generally complete a conventional path to a particular career. However, they are a danger to others when giving advice.
Original post by AW1983
I think Aliman65 suffers from an ailment common in young people called 'one way syndrome.' Sufferers of this syndrome have gathered information from a wealth of poor sources (teachers who have no experience of life outside an academic setting, inaccurate websites and the rumours of their peers, largely sourced from parents whose knowledge is often limited or out of date) and have reached the conclusion that there is only one way to achieve each goal.

Want to be a successful accountant with a six figure salary? Their advice is that you HAVE to do a degree. You HAVE to do ACA because it's best. You HAVE to work for the Big 4.

Or maybe a solicitor. You HAVE to get an LLB. You HAVE to go to a Russell Group University. You HAVE to get a training contract.

It's all rubbish. Solicitors could get where they are doing CILEx and getting fellowship before the LPC to become a solicitor without a degree or a training contract for example.

Acute sufferers of one way syndrome also get themselves bogged down with very strong ideas about degrees. They begin to believe you need one for any career and that it has to be from a Russell Group university. They do this whilst completing ignoring the stark reality that far more people have successful careers than have a degree or went to a Russell Group university.

The syndrome is relatively harmless to the sufferer, as they will generally complete a conventional path to a particular career. However, they are a danger to others when giving advice.


Is it strange that I read this in David Attenborough's voice? 😁


Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by AW1983
I think Aliman65 suffers from an ailment common in young people called 'one way syndrome.' Sufferers of this syndrome have gathered information from a wealth of poor sources (teachers who have no experience of life outside an academic setting, inaccurate websites and the rumours of their peers, largely sourced from parents whose knowledge is often limited or out of date) and have reached the conclusion that there is only one way to achieve each goal.

Want to be a successful accountant with a six figure salary? Their advice is that you HAVE to do a degree. You HAVE to do ACA because it's best. You HAVE to work for the Big 4.

Or maybe a solicitor. You HAVE to get an LLB. You HAVE to go to a Russell Group University. You HAVE to get a training contract.

It's all rubbish. Solicitors could get where they are doing CILEx and getting fellowship before the LPC to become a solicitor without a degree or a training contract for example.

Acute sufferers of one way syndrome also get themselves bogged down with very strong ideas about degrees. They begin to believe you need one for any career and that it has to be from a Russell Group university. They do this whilst completing ignoring the stark reality that far more people have successful careers than have a degree or went to a Russell Group university.

The syndrome is relatively harmless to the sufferer, as they will generally complete a conventional path to a particular career. However, they are a danger to others when giving advice.


To your surprise I kind of agree with you on some of that. But I still think university is the best way to go. Especially with all the help your university will give on getting you a job - with the work placements and interview techniques and so on.
If you fail an exam at university you can just retake. Fail one on your course at an accounting firm and you could get kicked out the firm or moved back a year.
But yes, when I go into school or college all we hear all day is how great university is. If you don't get into a top university you are looked down upon - the student room has numerous people that do this, who think oxbridge is everything. You look at youth unemployment statistics of graduates and non-graduates and it kind of makes up your mind for you really. And at 18 years old, many people simply are not mature enough to work 40 hours a week and do exams as well. They still want a life and university allows the transition.
It looks good on paper to go through the school leaver route - but what happens if you fail your exam in the 3rd year and you don't have a degree to fall back on? Or when you join the school leaver programme and realise you don't enjoy accounting? Accounting and finance at university covers a lot more than just accounting and will allow you to go into marketing, banking, insurance, statistical work, to name a few so you are not dedicating your life to audit or tax. And it is much easier to swap degree courses after a week than it is to drop out of a school leavers programme.
I was wrong on a few of my points earlier - someone obviously lied to me when they said you need a degree to train as a chartered accountant. So thank you for being patient with me but at least have the decency to understand I am just defending that accounting and finance is not a waste of time or money.
Original post by aliman65
To your surprise I kind of agree with you on some of that. But I still think university is the best way to go. Especially with all the help your university will give on getting you a job - with the work placements and interview techniques and so on.
If you fail an exam at university you can just retake. Fail one on your course at an accounting firm and you could get kicked out the firm or moved back a year.
But yes, when I go into school or college all we hear all day is how great university is. If you don't get into a top university you are looked down upon - the student room has numerous people that do this, who think oxbridge is everything. You look at youth unemployment statistics of graduates and non-graduates and it kind of makes up your mind for you really. And at 18 years old, many people simply are not mature enough to work 40 hours a week and do exams as well. They still want a life and university allows the transition.
It looks good on paper to go through the school leaver route - but what happens if you fail your exam in the 3rd year and you don't have a degree to fall back on? Or when you join the school leaver programme and realise you don't enjoy accounting? Accounting and finance at university covers a lot more than just accounting and will allow you to go into marketing, banking, insurance, statistical work, to name a few so you are not dedicating your life to audit or tax. And it is much easier to swap degree courses after a week than it is to drop out of a school leavers programme.
I was wrong on a few of my points earlier - someone obviously lied to me when they said you need a degree to train as a chartered accountant. So thank you for being patient with me but at least have the decency to understand I am just defending that accounting and finance is not a waste of time or money.



That is a good point about failing exams on the school leavers route. Does anyone on this route what happens in reality. Can you retake or are you kicked out? What have people gone onto do if they have been kicked out for failing exams?
Reply 53
University is great for some people and for others they have to go for the career they want. The point though is that accountants have a choice and their will have no impact on their mid to long term career success whatsoever. The only place it will hurt is the student fees and opportunity cost of lost income.

However, just to clear another suggestion up, you can't just flunk an exam at university and then retake it, not if you want the all important 2:1. Once you fail an exam, the best you can normally do in that module is get a pass from your resit (not even third class honours). That's fine in the first year, when your marks don't tend to count towards the final award, but in the second year each module can be 12.5% of your overall final grade or more.

For the record I went to university and I don't regret it at all, but I didn't go and study accountancy or even a business subject. I did History, increasingly of the economic variety, and I still enjoy having a hinterland from the day job because of it. I would urge any accountant who chooses to go to university to challenge themselves but do something they enjoy, audit and bookkeeping can be learned later.
just throwing my two cents in, but two of my choices for university are accounting and finance, or accounting, auditing and finance, but speaking to the lecturers at some of the unis that i visited, bristol and warwick to be exact ,they said that you can do other modules from the business school, modules in management, business or economics. Therefore they may be some point in doing an accounting a degree, just because you can diversify and you have the skills to go into other sectors other than just accountancy.
Original post by Browns97
just throwing my two cents in, but two of my choices for university are accounting and finance, or accounting, auditing and finance, but speaking to the lecturers at some of the unis that i visited, bristol and warwick to be exact ,they said that you can do other modules from the business school, modules in management, business or economics. Therefore they may be some point in doing an accounting a degree, just because you can diversify and you have the skills to go into other sectors other than just accountancy.


Few employers are going to be interested in the details of what optional modules you took, and even fewer will be placing much reliability on a claim that a few optional modules have transformed you from a bog standard accounting graduate into one with extra key skills that are relevant.
well a lot of a&f ers at warwick and a few at bristol are getting in FO at investment banks, so although your point about employers being interested in modules may valid, my point still stands that you can enter other careers, not just accountancy.
Reply 57
Original post by AW1983
I think Aliman65 suffers from an ailment common in young people called 'one way syndrome.' Sufferers of this syndrome have gathered information from a wealth of poor sources (teachers who have no experience of life outside an academic setting, inaccurate websites and the rumours of their peers, largely sourced from parents whose knowledge is often limited or out of date) and have reached the conclusion that there is only one way to achieve each goal.

Want to be a successful accountant with a six figure salary? Their advice is that you HAVE to do a degree. You HAVE to do ACA because it's best. You HAVE to work for the Big 4.

Or maybe a solicitor. You HAVE to get an LLB. You HAVE to go to a Russell Group University. You HAVE to get a training contract.

It's all rubbish. Solicitors could get where they are doing CILEx and getting fellowship before the LPC to become a solicitor without a degree or a training contract for example.

Acute sufferers of one way syndrome also get themselves bogged down with very strong ideas about degrees. They begin to believe you need one for any career and that it has to be from a Russell Group university. They do this whilst completing ignoring the stark reality that far more people have successful careers than have a degree or went to a Russell Group university.

The syndrome is relatively harmless to the sufferer, as they will generally complete a conventional path to a particular career. However, they are a danger to others when giving advice.


:clap2::clap2::clap2:

+1
I disagree with a lot of the information on here.

Yes - an accounting degree is by no means necessary to become an accountant. But the question is: is a BSc in Accounting worth doing?

I think it's one of the most useful degrees out there. This is coming from someone training at Big 4 firm having not studied accounting at university.

Should you opt to not go into accounting after completing a degree in accounting, it'll be very useful in any commercial/managerial/finance related role.

If you want to set up a business later on, it'll be extremely useful.

An accounting degree isn't soft either, so it's viewed positively by a lot of employers I'd imagine.

Should you choose to train to become an accountant as an accounting graduate, it'll get you a few exemptions.

So an accounting degree is excellent in my view.

And as someone pointed out, if you study A&F at a top university then you're in for a shot at some of the "coveted" front office IB roles (although personally I think a career in IB is ever so overrated - but there is an obsession on this forum so thought I'd throw this in as well).
(edited 7 years ago)
With degrees such as this one it really depends on the university.

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