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The British Empire is worst than the Nazi?
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Original post by Josb
Yes, it's a better explanation. We could draw the same map for France.
Well you can colour in most of the map through war with Britain, Spain and Russia alone.
Original post by Zürich
I think that map shows countries that the UK was at war with more than anything.
Britain was at war with Finland during WW2, and at war with what is now Mexico when it was part of the Spanish Empire.
Britain was at war with Finland during WW2, and at war with what is now Mexico when it was part of the Spanish Empire.
I think you are not right. Britain was at war with Sweden during the Napoleonic Wars and with Belarus when it was part of Russia during the Crimean War. However, neither are shaded. I think some kind of military person or vehicle has to have crossed into or over that land while at risk of being attacked as a result.
I am hugely proud of the British Empire and what we contributed to the world
We civilised the world and brought it into the 20th century !
We gave other primitive nations everything such as modern Science, engineering, infrastructure, medicine, industry and opened the world up to trade
We civilised the world and brought it into the 20th century !
We gave other primitive nations everything such as modern Science, engineering, infrastructure, medicine, industry and opened the world up to trade
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by MatureStudent36
Hardly starved on purpose though.
More to do with potato blight than a policy of starvation.
More to do with potato blight than a policy of starvation.
It's a rather contentious issue. Those that side with the Irish say that the British intentionally did nothing and make claims that resources were removed from Ireland to help England (and, correct me if I'm wrong, but was it not a Europe wide issue, not just an Irish one, so we had our own interests at heart?).
Then you get those that oppose that view, myself included, and have to admit that if it was intentional policy it was in a way self inflicted by resisting the rule in the first place: if your nation and the occupied nation are in famine and you have control over the food supply, are you going to feed the opposing "army"?
And at the same time you can hardly say we did nothing, Peel did plenty to try to alleviate the issue, although not enough. Ironically, the Whigs, when they took over, effectively said "stuff it, we shouldn't have to help".
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by Jammy Duel
Then you get those that oppose that view, myself included, and have to admit that if it was intentional policy it was in a way self inflicted by resisting the rule in the first place: if your nation and the occupied nation are in famine and you have control over the food supply, are you going to feed the opposing "army"?
Ireland was an integral part of the United Kingdom with population-weighted seats in parliament and, in 1845, as wide a franchise as England or Scotland. It was not a colony nor was it under military occupation.
The belief that Britain deliberately withheld food from part of their own population as part of an undeclared war against them is the belief that Britain intentionally perpetrated a democide.
This is the closest thread I could find for my question but can anybody give me some information on ex-colonial countries that haven't benefited from independence from Britain?
Original post by aka r
till this day Britain is up to no ****ing good, funding Syrian terrorists, I blame Britain and America for the deaths of 200,000 Syrians
Who gave you access to all the top secret government documents?
Original post by aka r
till this day Britain is up to no ****ing good, funding Syrian terrorists, I blame Britain and America for the deaths of 200,000 Syrians
Really?
No blame whatsoever on the Syrians themselves?
How about the Russians and the Iranians?
Original post by MrAngel
The Brits invented concentrations camps during the Boer Wars. We can't blame the Nazi for that.
I really don't need to add anything to that. What an idiotic thing to say, as if the 'invention' (a hugely questionable statement by the way) outweighs the implementation. As if colonizing often uninhabited land is equivalent to viciously swamping sovereign states often with civilians as the target. As if introducing 19th century infrastructure and western religion is comparable with the spread of fascism. Some people are so amazingly thick.
Original post by MrAngel
The Brits invented concentrations camps during the Boer Wars. We can't blame the Nazi for that.
I find this a somewhat questionable statement, I'm very disappointed in humanity if it took that long for somebody to come up with the idea of something along the lines of a concentration camp, and even it this were so, it's then a massive leap to say that without the British doing it the Nazis wouldn't have done it, it's an effective way of making undesirables useful while keeping them out of the way which is still practiced today, albeit in a marginally more humane form.
The British Empire was the world’s first global power and largest empire with dominions, colonies, protectorates, mandates and territories controlling close to 500m people covering over 33,700,000 km2- quarter of the world’s landmass. In 1909 the British Empire encompassed 20% of the land area of the Earth and 23% of its population. All the roads to all the evils that exist globally lead to Great Britain and the violence sown by one system and their engineering of sectarianism. It is this legacy of criminal history that has been passing on unabated and not a single country has been afforded an apology thus far. It is in looking back at history that one would find all the answers – it is history that would set the records straight. It is for these reasons that certain quarters attempt to through their international offices subjugate history.
We are not a young people with innocent record and a scanty inheritance. We have engrossed to ourselves — an altogether disproportionate share of wealth and traffic of the world. We have got all we want in territory, and our claim to be left in the unmolested enjoyment of vast and splendid possessions, mainly acquired by violence, largely maintained by force, often seem less reasonable to others than to us" – so said Winston Churchill denoting the mindset of all imperialists.
Would anyone think the British capable of burning down villages to the ground, seizing and raping women and children on orders, hanging prisoners without trial, starving locals to death, infecting natives with smallpox, getting natives addicted to opium and alcohol – these are just a few of the crimes attributed to Great Britain.
The wealth of the imperial countries – its gold and raw materials were all robbed, the people of these nations whose lives were without the complications and complexities it suffered as a result of colonial rule needs to be reiterated. There were no equity, justice and impartiality, there were no good governance that was given as a legacy, all the niches that were carved out have only served to continue to divide from the first divisions carved out to facilitate the rule of the colonials.
None of these former colonials welcomed British or European rule – their nations were all occupied by force. It was not only the natives that were mercilessly killed and executed, their lands were transformed to cash crops, they brought in guns and cannons, their “deals” and “agreements” were insincere, they destroyed the culture and heritage, the religious bonds that existed and in its place a legacy which we are yet to shrug off yet the ignorant remains grateful to the arrival of these colonials.
Ceylon/Sri Lanka
The British ruled Ceylon between 1815 to 1948. When the British landed in Sri Lanka its population was just 800,000 by the time the British left 150 years later that population had risen to 7m – there was never a time until repatriation in 1971 and 1981 that the Sri Lankan Tamils outnumbered the Indian Tamils who brought in as cheap labor from India.
The brute force used in Sri Lanka was only a replica of the brutal policies used by the British in all other colonies and territories. Kandyan chieftans were promised unconditional warranty that Buddhism would remain inviolable but these were never kept. Entire villages and farms were torched, cattle slaughtered, vegetation’s burnt to the ground and people killed remorselessly. Lands were taken by force to start cash crops resulting in diverse affects to the environment and natural surroundings. The aim of the British was simply to annihilate the traditions, customs, culture and religion of these natives in order to facilitate the plunder of wealth of these nations.
The Uva Rebellion/Third Kandyan War (1817) turned into a guerilla war with rebels being brutally massacred by the British. The Madulla massacre was one of shoot-to-kill policy leaving not a woman or child spared. When despite rescuing over 294,000 Tamil civilians the British Government is crying genocide and war crimes why have they remained mum over 200,000 deaths in 1848 when orders were to kill anything above 8years!
Refer the House of Commons Committee for the gory details that would include how Lt. J. Maclaine of the 73rd Regiment whose pastime was to watch Sinhalese men being hung one after the other whilst enjoying breakfast!
Even the animals were not spared – elephants the mode of transport used by both King and villager alike for cultivation, tanks, religious processions soon became the target of huntsmen who designed weapons from England. Samuel Baker headed the elephant slaughter killing 30-40 elephants on a daily basis – calculate this into 150 years to estimate the number of elephants the British have killed as a sport in Sri Lanka. There are plenty of memos to prove these allegations though most of these hidden secrets have been destroyed by the British.
The British laid siege on hundreds of natives in the colonies who like the Sinhalese were men who were protecting their nation using just bows and arrows!
Do these crimes started and spread from the British Raj to the present not pale in comparison to the other crimes which were drawn upon these original methods?
Justice for Mau Mau rebellion – Kenya
It took over 60 years for justice for victims of the Mau Mau rebellion because the British Government took away all evidence of their atrocities and destroyed evidence against them – atrocities that included “roasting alive” Kenyans, beating natives to death, concentration (internment) camps where men were anally raped using knives, broken bottles, rifle barrels, snakes and scorpions, even making a special tool to crush and rip off testicles by British forces. These detention camps held more than 160,000 Africans between 1952 and 1960. The Mau Mau court hearing charges numbered over 400 brought by 4 elderly Kenyans – 2 victims of castration.
If these were not horrific enough pliers were used to mutilate women’s breasts while men were rolled up in barbed wire and kicked around the compound. This is Britain that is preaching human rights after committing 200 years of human rights abuses! The same Britain that makes heartening appeals to the International Criminal Court while it remains guilty of depopulating natives of Diego Garcia so that it could give its buddy America a military base to carry out renditions and human torture – so has the British learnt lessons inspite of its colonial crimes?
It was through the Mau Mau hearing that emerged that the Foreign Office held 9500 files from 36 other former British colonies secretly further emphasizing oppression by imperial forces a hidden past that no British child is today aware of. Yet Britain and its present and future generations are beholden to know how Britain became the society it is from the looting and plundering nations and completely destroying the unity that existed amongst the indigenous peoples.
India
India was Britain’s prize catch but it had its own share of British atrocities. English East India Company did pittance to help the famine since rice fields were turned into poppy plantations to grow opium. The famine brought down the population from 150,000 to 30,000 in Dhaka as part of the Malthusian population theory adopted by British advisors to starve natives to death. The 1919 Jallianwala Bagh massacre led to hundreds of unarmed civilians ordered to be killed by General Dyer. During the Partition of 1947 where the largest mass-migration took place upto 3m died and Britain simply abandoned its responsibilities. 6-7m Indians had been starved to death by the British in 1943-1945. The Indian Holocaust is in excess of 1.8billion between 1757 and 1947. Are British human enough to tie thousands of Sikhs to gun cannons and fire!
We cannot reiterate enough that the real villains of the world are those that own the Bank of England established in 1694, the US Federal Reserve who control the World Bank and IMF as well as the world’s intelligence agencies – a network known as the “Club of Isles” having $10trillion in assets. The square-mile City of London is a sovereign state run by the Bank of England which is a private corporation and not subject to British law. Yet the Bank can even dictate to the British Parliament and it was these very bankers that created the British Empire.
Today democracy is simply a means to control society using mass media and education systems.
The power of the banks is their monopoly over credit using Government’s credit to print money and forcing taxpayers to make billions in interest for all Central Banks are private institutions that give credit to businesses and individuals. It is not hard to fathom how bankers have been destabilizing society and creating one crisis after another forcing those who depend on credit to remain mum.
There are many who view that what happened is past and should be forgotten. Well that appears to be directed at only white crimes – but these same Governments blow hot and cold over crimes that are not half as horrific as the one’s that were systematically part of plundering nations. Imperial amnesia is nothing that can be swept under the carpet. It is what connects the roots to the ills that prevails globally throughout the third world.
What the British Government needs to understand is that apart from its crimes committed as part of imperial policies what is more horrific is the manner it attempted to illegally conceal and destroy documentary evidence of its colonial crimes secretly kept in the Foreign and Commonwealth Office’s security premises in Buckinghamshire. The atrocities committed by the British East India Company and the British Raj are what BBC’s Channel 4 should be showcasing first.
The question remains why politicians and media alike are afraid to accuse Britain of its barbarism which is an important part of history of man. Why have historians themselves failed to associate the brutality of an empire that spanned such a land mass affecting the lives of millions of people? We are talking about centuries of hidden history, hidden crimes and imperial amnesia.
The British was responsible for the death and destruction to millions of people throughout Asia and Africa. Indigenous heritage had been annihilated and in its place natives were Christianized and people marginalized and decentralized to create chaos with political administrations leaving people fighting for territory and power.
All that the West proudly enjoys were built from gold, spices, opium, oil, minerals all looted from the colonies while natives were turned into slaves and today suffering from poverty and a new wave of neo-colonialism.
Britain stands accused of crimes against humanity of not just one nation but several hundred, not just a handful but of millions of people. Britain stands accused of slavery, plundering of land and natural resources of territories belonging to the Indigenous people. Should Britain not be compensating these countries at least 20% of the value of goods produced and extracted from the resources since late 1400s? Should Britain not compensate for the damage done to the environment as well as compensate for the cruel and inhuman manner women were raped and impregnated as a policy.
How much should the United Kingdom Government pay the world’s citizens for centuries of imperialism, wars, diseases and mass murder - $58 trillion or $8350 for every living person was a suggestion – is this really enough to cover the injustice suffered and the injustice that still prevails – it is when China becomes the sole superpower and Britain faces its decline when reparations demands will surface!
The world needs to know exactly what the European powers – the French, the Italians, the Germans, the Belgians, the Portuguese and the British empire did to the people of the world and the legacy that these nations continue to be burdened with.
Yet, if the German government could formally apologize for the enslavement and genocide of the Herero peoples of Namibia, French showed some resent over Atlantic slave trade though yet to apologize to Algeria, in the 1980s the Canadian Indian Tribal Chiefs were given a public apology, while in the 1990s the Maoris of New Zealand were extended a public apology….
It is now time for the British to apologize for its crimes.
Why can’t the British apologize to the rest of the world for its crimes against humanity?
We can learn what kind of people were the British from this ...
Today’s generation may not be held responsible for the attrocities commited by their ancestors but they have been benefiting from the ill gotten gains. The least you can do is to aknowledge, apologise, and compensate the victims and do not let you governments carry on with the opression. The victimisation and plundering has not stopped but has become a lot more subtle and far more destructive i.e Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya and now Syria.When will the English condemn these kind of behaviours?
We are not a young people with innocent record and a scanty inheritance. We have engrossed to ourselves — an altogether disproportionate share of wealth and traffic of the world. We have got all we want in territory, and our claim to be left in the unmolested enjoyment of vast and splendid possessions, mainly acquired by violence, largely maintained by force, often seem less reasonable to others than to us" – so said Winston Churchill denoting the mindset of all imperialists.
Would anyone think the British capable of burning down villages to the ground, seizing and raping women and children on orders, hanging prisoners without trial, starving locals to death, infecting natives with smallpox, getting natives addicted to opium and alcohol – these are just a few of the crimes attributed to Great Britain.
The wealth of the imperial countries – its gold and raw materials were all robbed, the people of these nations whose lives were without the complications and complexities it suffered as a result of colonial rule needs to be reiterated. There were no equity, justice and impartiality, there were no good governance that was given as a legacy, all the niches that were carved out have only served to continue to divide from the first divisions carved out to facilitate the rule of the colonials.
None of these former colonials welcomed British or European rule – their nations were all occupied by force. It was not only the natives that were mercilessly killed and executed, their lands were transformed to cash crops, they brought in guns and cannons, their “deals” and “agreements” were insincere, they destroyed the culture and heritage, the religious bonds that existed and in its place a legacy which we are yet to shrug off yet the ignorant remains grateful to the arrival of these colonials.
Ceylon/Sri Lanka
The British ruled Ceylon between 1815 to 1948. When the British landed in Sri Lanka its population was just 800,000 by the time the British left 150 years later that population had risen to 7m – there was never a time until repatriation in 1971 and 1981 that the Sri Lankan Tamils outnumbered the Indian Tamils who brought in as cheap labor from India.
The brute force used in Sri Lanka was only a replica of the brutal policies used by the British in all other colonies and territories. Kandyan chieftans were promised unconditional warranty that Buddhism would remain inviolable but these were never kept. Entire villages and farms were torched, cattle slaughtered, vegetation’s burnt to the ground and people killed remorselessly. Lands were taken by force to start cash crops resulting in diverse affects to the environment and natural surroundings. The aim of the British was simply to annihilate the traditions, customs, culture and religion of these natives in order to facilitate the plunder of wealth of these nations.
The Uva Rebellion/Third Kandyan War (1817) turned into a guerilla war with rebels being brutally massacred by the British. The Madulla massacre was one of shoot-to-kill policy leaving not a woman or child spared. When despite rescuing over 294,000 Tamil civilians the British Government is crying genocide and war crimes why have they remained mum over 200,000 deaths in 1848 when orders were to kill anything above 8years!
Refer the House of Commons Committee for the gory details that would include how Lt. J. Maclaine of the 73rd Regiment whose pastime was to watch Sinhalese men being hung one after the other whilst enjoying breakfast!
Even the animals were not spared – elephants the mode of transport used by both King and villager alike for cultivation, tanks, religious processions soon became the target of huntsmen who designed weapons from England. Samuel Baker headed the elephant slaughter killing 30-40 elephants on a daily basis – calculate this into 150 years to estimate the number of elephants the British have killed as a sport in Sri Lanka. There are plenty of memos to prove these allegations though most of these hidden secrets have been destroyed by the British.
The British laid siege on hundreds of natives in the colonies who like the Sinhalese were men who were protecting their nation using just bows and arrows!
Do these crimes started and spread from the British Raj to the present not pale in comparison to the other crimes which were drawn upon these original methods?
Justice for Mau Mau rebellion – Kenya
It took over 60 years for justice for victims of the Mau Mau rebellion because the British Government took away all evidence of their atrocities and destroyed evidence against them – atrocities that included “roasting alive” Kenyans, beating natives to death, concentration (internment) camps where men were anally raped using knives, broken bottles, rifle barrels, snakes and scorpions, even making a special tool to crush and rip off testicles by British forces. These detention camps held more than 160,000 Africans between 1952 and 1960. The Mau Mau court hearing charges numbered over 400 brought by 4 elderly Kenyans – 2 victims of castration.
If these were not horrific enough pliers were used to mutilate women’s breasts while men were rolled up in barbed wire and kicked around the compound. This is Britain that is preaching human rights after committing 200 years of human rights abuses! The same Britain that makes heartening appeals to the International Criminal Court while it remains guilty of depopulating natives of Diego Garcia so that it could give its buddy America a military base to carry out renditions and human torture – so has the British learnt lessons inspite of its colonial crimes?
It was through the Mau Mau hearing that emerged that the Foreign Office held 9500 files from 36 other former British colonies secretly further emphasizing oppression by imperial forces a hidden past that no British child is today aware of. Yet Britain and its present and future generations are beholden to know how Britain became the society it is from the looting and plundering nations and completely destroying the unity that existed amongst the indigenous peoples.
India
India was Britain’s prize catch but it had its own share of British atrocities. English East India Company did pittance to help the famine since rice fields were turned into poppy plantations to grow opium. The famine brought down the population from 150,000 to 30,000 in Dhaka as part of the Malthusian population theory adopted by British advisors to starve natives to death. The 1919 Jallianwala Bagh massacre led to hundreds of unarmed civilians ordered to be killed by General Dyer. During the Partition of 1947 where the largest mass-migration took place upto 3m died and Britain simply abandoned its responsibilities. 6-7m Indians had been starved to death by the British in 1943-1945. The Indian Holocaust is in excess of 1.8billion between 1757 and 1947. Are British human enough to tie thousands of Sikhs to gun cannons and fire!
We cannot reiterate enough that the real villains of the world are those that own the Bank of England established in 1694, the US Federal Reserve who control the World Bank and IMF as well as the world’s intelligence agencies – a network known as the “Club of Isles” having $10trillion in assets. The square-mile City of London is a sovereign state run by the Bank of England which is a private corporation and not subject to British law. Yet the Bank can even dictate to the British Parliament and it was these very bankers that created the British Empire.
Today democracy is simply a means to control society using mass media and education systems.
The power of the banks is their monopoly over credit using Government’s credit to print money and forcing taxpayers to make billions in interest for all Central Banks are private institutions that give credit to businesses and individuals. It is not hard to fathom how bankers have been destabilizing society and creating one crisis after another forcing those who depend on credit to remain mum.
There are many who view that what happened is past and should be forgotten. Well that appears to be directed at only white crimes – but these same Governments blow hot and cold over crimes that are not half as horrific as the one’s that were systematically part of plundering nations. Imperial amnesia is nothing that can be swept under the carpet. It is what connects the roots to the ills that prevails globally throughout the third world.
What the British Government needs to understand is that apart from its crimes committed as part of imperial policies what is more horrific is the manner it attempted to illegally conceal and destroy documentary evidence of its colonial crimes secretly kept in the Foreign and Commonwealth Office’s security premises in Buckinghamshire. The atrocities committed by the British East India Company and the British Raj are what BBC’s Channel 4 should be showcasing first.
The question remains why politicians and media alike are afraid to accuse Britain of its barbarism which is an important part of history of man. Why have historians themselves failed to associate the brutality of an empire that spanned such a land mass affecting the lives of millions of people? We are talking about centuries of hidden history, hidden crimes and imperial amnesia.
The British was responsible for the death and destruction to millions of people throughout Asia and Africa. Indigenous heritage had been annihilated and in its place natives were Christianized and people marginalized and decentralized to create chaos with political administrations leaving people fighting for territory and power.
All that the West proudly enjoys were built from gold, spices, opium, oil, minerals all looted from the colonies while natives were turned into slaves and today suffering from poverty and a new wave of neo-colonialism.
Britain stands accused of crimes against humanity of not just one nation but several hundred, not just a handful but of millions of people. Britain stands accused of slavery, plundering of land and natural resources of territories belonging to the Indigenous people. Should Britain not be compensating these countries at least 20% of the value of goods produced and extracted from the resources since late 1400s? Should Britain not compensate for the damage done to the environment as well as compensate for the cruel and inhuman manner women were raped and impregnated as a policy.
How much should the United Kingdom Government pay the world’s citizens for centuries of imperialism, wars, diseases and mass murder - $58 trillion or $8350 for every living person was a suggestion – is this really enough to cover the injustice suffered and the injustice that still prevails – it is when China becomes the sole superpower and Britain faces its decline when reparations demands will surface!
The world needs to know exactly what the European powers – the French, the Italians, the Germans, the Belgians, the Portuguese and the British empire did to the people of the world and the legacy that these nations continue to be burdened with.
Yet, if the German government could formally apologize for the enslavement and genocide of the Herero peoples of Namibia, French showed some resent over Atlantic slave trade though yet to apologize to Algeria, in the 1980s the Canadian Indian Tribal Chiefs were given a public apology, while in the 1990s the Maoris of New Zealand were extended a public apology….
It is now time for the British to apologize for its crimes.
Why can’t the British apologize to the rest of the world for its crimes against humanity?
We can learn what kind of people were the British from this ...
Today’s generation may not be held responsible for the attrocities commited by their ancestors but they have been benefiting from the ill gotten gains. The least you can do is to aknowledge, apologise, and compensate the victims and do not let you governments carry on with the opression. The victimisation and plundering has not stopped but has become a lot more subtle and far more destructive i.e Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya and now Syria.When will the English condemn these kind of behaviours?
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by UtopiaofEurope
I am hugely proud of the British Empire and what we contributed to the world
We civilised the world and brought it into the 20th century !
We gave other primitive nations everything such as modern Science, engineering, infrastructure, medicine, industry and opened the world up to trade
We civilised the world and brought it into the 20th century !
We gave other primitive nations everything such as modern Science, engineering, infrastructure, medicine, industry and opened the world up to trade
Britain should apologize to us.
They robbed us of everything, our pride, our wealth, our traditions, our culture, our history,our education system and what more to say our self respect. One of the guys here posted that when Britishers left India had roads, electricity...blah blah.
THe says that we were religiously separated in many states.
I say who the hell gives you the right to point out at us when UK is still divided. Ask any Scottish/Irish about his nationality. They will never say British. ..
And why UK should not apologize. When it was the same retarded crown who rules them now was ripping our dignity apart fro more than 200 years.
People say that we gained a lot with the British rule. I say that's bull****. Who knows how we would have emerged as a nation. We might have taken an entire different path of development.
I don't understand why these Britishers are so stubborn. They don't have any say in world affairs, in world economy. They keep on wagging their tails in front of their big daddy, the USA. Still they think that their colonization was correct. That's a damn crap. There population now consist of crazy beer drinkers and retarded football fans. There education system is in doldrums. And there royal family is a big joke.
Grow up you Britishers. Apologize to us (India) and all the other countries you colonized.
Because this is our century and sooner or later history will repeat, but in opposite direction and we will gain our lost position in the world.
Are you joking ?
Science/Maths hahahaha but we invented them....
The gross domestic product of India in the 16th century was estimated at about 25.1% of the world economy, and before the British started colonizing India in the 18th century, India was the second-largest economy in the world, with the Manchu China. By the time British left India in 1947, India had been reduced to a 3rd world country! India's share of the world income went from 27% in 1700 (compared to Europe's share of 23%) to 3% in 1950.
So one can deduce who took money from whom
Before the British invasion of India ... India was the Richest country in the world ... That was the very reason why British Invaded India . Even Columbus was looking for India ... because ... Throughout ancient times India was Considered The Richest land ... with .. full of natural resources , fertile earth , intellect , hard working people , technology ... precious metal, stones etc. . Those Have you disagree ... I'd like to SUGGEST you to go through the scripts of ancient explorers ... from China , Rome , Greece , ... etc. . Even before Britain HAD people there .... India was filled with a highly advanced civilization .
The British were in India because they were trying to expand their empire, and India was the "crowing jewel of the East" due to the country being rich in jewels, grains, tea and many other natural resources which were uncommonly found in England. Furthermore, Bombay was a good port for the British to have since it made it easier to commute. India also had a lot of man power which would aid the British in wars and as workers underneath the British.
The first surgery was done in India amongst many firsts. India has given more to human civilization than any other country.. math, science, philosophy,... first major university the human race ever had was Nalanda University.
India was the civilization around which other civilizations revolved! There is overwhelming evidence to suggest that it was. Many, many of the inventions and discoveries claimed by the west (for eg: gravity) were actually discovered by people from the great land of India! Here is a quote from a French Orientalist by the name of Sylvia Levi:
"The multiplicity of the manifestations of the Indian genius as well as their fundamental unity gives India the right to figure on the first rank in the history of civilized nations. Her civilization, spontaneous and original, unrolls itself in a continuous time across at least thirty centuries, without interruption, without deviation."
Here is another great quote about India:
"India had the start of the whole world in the beginning of things. She had the first civilization; she had the first accumulation of material wealth; she was populous with deep thinkers and subtle intellects; she had mines, and woods, and a fruitful soul."
- Mark Twain (American author)
Most of the greatest inventions known to mankind were actually made in India and it was only through the Indian scriptures and universities (eg: Nalanda) that the rest of the world came to know about crucial elements of Math, science, astronomy, etc.... Here are a few more quotes about the great Indian civilization:
"And then India appears to me in all the living power of her originality. I traced her progress in the expansion of her enlightenment over the world. I saw her giving her laws, her customs, her morale, her religion to Egypt, to Persia, to Greece and Rome. I saw Jaiminy and Veda Vyasa precede Socrates and Plato, and Krishna, the son of the Virgin Devajani precede the son of the Virgin of Bethelehem."
- Louis Francois Jacolliot (French diplomat & author)
"We owe a lot to the Indians, who taught us how to count, without which no worthwhile scientific discovery could have been made!"
-Albert Einstein
"We should be greatful to Indians, who invented the number system & zero, without with no modern invention would have been possible"- Albert Eienstein
I also suggest that you read the following book written by a British economist named Angus Maddison: "The World Economy: A Millennial Perspective". In this book, he clearly states, with evidence, that India was the wealthiest country in the world, from when time began, up until (and including) the seventeenth century, when they were invaded by the British Empire.
The Indian civilisation is one of the longest surviving civilisation - from 3500 BC till now - and throughout its history (prior to being colonised), India enjoyed golden periods of prosperity.
India is also the world's largest, oldest and oldest continuing civilization!
British empire was built on poverty. Even today your government lives on the back of the poor. Its creating a debt empire once its peasants refuse to pay it all falls down. You see Asia its actually making things and selling them to consumers who cant really afford it.EVERYTHING THE BRITS CARE IT'S TO MAXIMISE THEIR PROFIT!!!
So how is British engineering doing these days ? Does it even exist.
Last I heard even your fabled car companies are owned and run by Indian
business groups
AS for immigration , , but maybe if your sorry self's bothered to study
science and math, you would not be inviting Indian doctors, nurses,
engineers and even teachers to educate you in English.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by Historytruth
....
1. The City of London as an entity predates the Bank of England by at least 1500 years. It's not a sovereign state, never has been, never will be, no matter how much the tin foil hat brigade try and claim it is.
2. I flat out refuse to apologise for anything my great-great-grandfather may or may not have done.
Original post by Historytruth
x
If you want people to pay attention to what you have to say on an online forum I suggest you should be concise, not write a >2000 word Essay, especially if it isn't the OP
Also, I would be surprised if your Einstein quotes are totally legitimate; the Indians created the numerals we base ours upon, they did not however create numbers. Ancient tally marks, which is technically the first kind of abstract numeral system and the first known system with place value was the Mesopotamian base 60 system (which is far superior to our base 10 in many respects) and the Egyptians also had a base 10 system I believe before the Indians. And as for zero, again the Indians weren't the first to have such a concept and they definitely weren't alone in having independently developed such a concept; the Egyptians had a symbol for 0 in accounting contexts, although also translated to other fields too. The Mesopotamians also had a zero, but not quite in the same way we use it now, merely to represent "nothing" rather than to hold a value at a certain magnitude. The Ancient Greeks and kinda Romans had 0s, even if they didn't really understand it (and the Greek REALLY had "issues" in Mathematics, not only did they question whether zero is actually a thing, but whether 1 is a number or not). There were also zeros that predated Christ in the Americas. The Indians may have been the first to develop the zero concept we use today (bar their definition of ) but they were by no means the inventors of "zero".
p.s. If we want to throw in negative numbers too, not that they are explicitly mentioned, the Chinese are documented to have made it there a few centuries before the Indians. However I will give you that the earliest known use of irrationals was by the Indians, although the Greeks were first to prove their existence (and killed people because of it since they disagreed with the concept, Greek mathematics can be fascinating just for these kinda of things). The first results using transcendental numbers (non-algebraic; ie not a solution to a polynomial equation equaling zero) were by a Swiss mathematician. Complex numbers, largely European.
(edited 9 years ago)
Load of crap. Ruuuule Britannia, Britannia rules the waves!! 
Original post by Historytruth
Britain should apologize to us.
Britain should apologize to us.
Why should I apologise to you? For what? It sounds like you're looking forward to an Indian empire. Are you just sad that the Indian Empire didn't get as far as it did?
If Indian companies own a bunch of engineering firms then great... but do you? Do I? No. The entirety of history has been a game of chess for the rich. Us poor people in every country neither had a say, nor the political will to stop anything. So all we can do is stop focusing on the games of the rich and live the way we want, provide for our family and contribute to our communities. Maybe even share a cup of tea with each other, ol' boy?
(edited 9 years ago)
This is the dumbest thread I've read on this site by far.
Implementing the final solution aka ridding Europe of ALL Jews is somehow better than ruling over colonies. What the ****? Seriously.
There's just one little thing that contradicts all this and shows how lax British rule was. Nowadays, all former colonies still have their cultures, their religion, everything.
How lame.
Implementing the final solution aka ridding Europe of ALL Jews is somehow better than ruling over colonies. What the ****? Seriously.
There's just one little thing that contradicts all this and shows how lax British rule was. Nowadays, all former colonies still have their cultures, their religion, everything.
How lame.
This thread serves no purpose at all.
The same pieces of land may exist now as back then, but generations have lived and died over the centuries, so we are in effect talking about different countries. Britain, and virtually every other country in the world, is a different country now compared to back then.
So what is the point of this thread.
To try to make us feel sorry for something that somebody did hundreds of years ago?
Horrible stuff yes, but not something anybody alive today would condone or could have helped. We were all still dead when it happened.
The same pieces of land may exist now as back then, but generations have lived and died over the centuries, so we are in effect talking about different countries. Britain, and virtually every other country in the world, is a different country now compared to back then.
So what is the point of this thread.
To try to make us feel sorry for something that somebody did hundreds of years ago?
Horrible stuff yes, but not something anybody alive today would condone or could have helped. We were all still dead when it happened.
Just a few thoughts:
1) The British didn't invent concentration camps, and their use in South Africa was completely different from their use in Nazi Germany many years later. The inmates were not murdered or tortured, though granted sanitation conditions were not great. It was more an open air prison for people suspected of helping the Boer rebels.
2) In the case of India, the British did contribute a lot to it. Railways, modern medicine, infrastructure, governmental systems and most importantly of all nationhood. India was divided into warring kingdoms/empires before the British came. Without Britain, India as a country would not exist. Hundreds of millions of people did not die as has been claimed on here. The population more than doubled between 1700-1947. Can you really say that the Mughal elites governed the country better than their British successors?
3) All peoples and nations have committed crimes and done things they are not proud of, without exception. I assume you are from Benin? As you must already know, the Kingdom of Dahomey (present day Benin) committed many brutal massacres on the surrounding peoples, and sold many millions of captives into slavery both in mainland Africa and to European slavers. It was only thanks to the British that that the trans-Atlantic slave trade was suppressed and the Dahomey Kingdom was forced to give up slavery.
The difference between the British Empire and Nazi Germany was the exception of the times. What Britain did in the 1700/1800s was no different to what other European powers were doing, and indeed to what the Asian and African powers had done before them (think Chinese imperial dynasties and the Mongols for instance), just they were more successful at it. With Nazi Germany however, their actions were not consistent with the value system in most other nations behaved. They were truly barbaric and horrific for the time period. The history of the world has always been about one group of peoples fighting and conquering another, whether it be in the literal sense with guns and swords, or via ideology, politics and economics. It is not always right to judge our distant ancestors based upon our own present day moral systems. In a hundred years, our descendants will look back on us and think our moral codes are backwards. How many people judge and criticise the Roman Empire for the way it operated in the Ancient World? That era was a time of Empire, and if most people had to choose which one to be a part of I suspect many would have chosen to be ruled by the British. That doesn't excuse the many crimes committed by the Empire, but nor does it mean we should omit the many achievements and good it brought about.
1) The British didn't invent concentration camps, and their use in South Africa was completely different from their use in Nazi Germany many years later. The inmates were not murdered or tortured, though granted sanitation conditions were not great. It was more an open air prison for people suspected of helping the Boer rebels.
2) In the case of India, the British did contribute a lot to it. Railways, modern medicine, infrastructure, governmental systems and most importantly of all nationhood. India was divided into warring kingdoms/empires before the British came. Without Britain, India as a country would not exist. Hundreds of millions of people did not die as has been claimed on here. The population more than doubled between 1700-1947. Can you really say that the Mughal elites governed the country better than their British successors?
3) All peoples and nations have committed crimes and done things they are not proud of, without exception. I assume you are from Benin? As you must already know, the Kingdom of Dahomey (present day Benin) committed many brutal massacres on the surrounding peoples, and sold many millions of captives into slavery both in mainland Africa and to European slavers. It was only thanks to the British that that the trans-Atlantic slave trade was suppressed and the Dahomey Kingdom was forced to give up slavery.
The difference between the British Empire and Nazi Germany was the exception of the times. What Britain did in the 1700/1800s was no different to what other European powers were doing, and indeed to what the Asian and African powers had done before them (think Chinese imperial dynasties and the Mongols for instance), just they were more successful at it. With Nazi Germany however, their actions were not consistent with the value system in most other nations behaved. They were truly barbaric and horrific for the time period. The history of the world has always been about one group of peoples fighting and conquering another, whether it be in the literal sense with guns and swords, or via ideology, politics and economics. It is not always right to judge our distant ancestors based upon our own present day moral systems. In a hundred years, our descendants will look back on us and think our moral codes are backwards. How many people judge and criticise the Roman Empire for the way it operated in the Ancient World? That era was a time of Empire, and if most people had to choose which one to be a part of I suspect many would have chosen to be ruled by the British. That doesn't excuse the many crimes committed by the Empire, but nor does it mean we should omit the many achievements and good it brought about.
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