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~| Should I Join UKIP Or The Tories? |~

I am wondering which party I should join, UKIP or the Tories.

UKIP has a libertarian slant which I am inclined to. I am a recent convert to libertarianism and it seems my natural home. I agree with much of what Farage says and it seems their common-sense policies could do a great deal of good in practice. I have followed them closely for a year now and agree with nearly all their policies.

However, they are a new and untried party, and the Tories are already established. I am worried however that if I join the Tories I will be hounded to follow the party line, which will be frustrating as I like to speak my mind.

The problem with UKIP: how they are perceived. It would not look good for my political career if I, as a member of an ethnic minority, were seen to be joining it. I nevertheless feel that the Tories have betrayed their old Thatcherite values and Cameron is not to be trusted at all. Farage is a competent leader and deserves much more respect than Cameron ever did. But there is hope - the right is gaining the ascendancy in the Conservative Party, and it might be more amenable to my somewhat radical views.

I also happen to be a republican.

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Have you ever heard of Turkeys voting for Christmas? Why as an ethnic minority would you want to join parties that would like to see your demise? You need your head examining.
(edited 9 years ago)
UKIP

as a minority, it would boost the image of UKIP, and attract the minorities to them.

This mass immigration, politically correct EU dictatorship we live under affects the minorities too.
I thought you were an authoritarian lol

Have you finally seen the light?
Original post by Smarter_tutor
Have you ever heard of Turkeys voting for Christmas? Why as an ethnic minority would you want to join parties that would like to see your demise? You need your head examining.


UKIP are not racist.
Reply 5
Original post by The Dictator
I am wondering which party I should join, UKIP or the Tories.

UKIP has a libertarian slant which I am inclined to. I am a recent convert to libertarianism and it seems my natural home. I agree with much of what Farage says and it seems their common-sense policies could do a great deal of good in practice. I have followed them closely for a year now and agree with nearly all their policies.

However, they are a new and untried party, and the Tories are already established. I am worried however that if I join the Tories I will be hounded to follow the party line, which will be frustrating as I like to speak my mind.

The problem with UKIP: how they are perceived. It would not look good for my political career if I, as a member of an ethnic minority, were seen to be joining it. I nevertheless feel that the Tories have betrayed their old Thatcherite values and Cameron is not to be trusted at all. Farage is a competent leader and deserves much more respect than Cameron ever did. But there is hope - the right is gaining the ascendancy in the Conservative Party, and it might be more amenable to my somewhat radical views.

I also happen to be a republican.


I strongly dispute the notion that they are libertarian but as you say yourself, you agree with most things about Ukip and I don't believe a move to the social right will bring the Tories victory so from a self interest point of view I'd obviously prefer less of these types.
Original post by Smarter_tutor
Have you ever heard of Turkeys voting for Christmas? Why as an ethnic minority would you want to join parties that would like to see your demise? You need your head examining.


You're thinking of the BNP pal.

You, like many have absolutely no idea what you are talking about and it infuriates me because I don't want UKIP to gain a larger support in this country and people making ridiculous comments like you only strengthen their resolve.

Challenging immigration is not racist.

If anything what UKIP want is a dangerously capitalist society which overrides some of the better parts of socialism that the UK has adopted.

I really can't make clear enough how much I dislike ignorant comments such as yours.

Take them on on the real issues. Its like saying Tories want to destroy the NHS and see people dying on the streets and labour want unlimited immigration and every person too lazy to work in a house bigger than Buckingham palace living a life of Riley. Its unbelievably lazy and doesn't scratch the surface.
Original post by Rakas21
I strongly dispute the notion that they are libertarian but as you say yourself, you agree with most things about Ukip and I don't believe a move to the social right will bring the Tories victory so from a self interest point of view I'd obviously prefer less of these types.


UKIP are also a small party ,and if I join it there will be more room for promotion and to input my views. But as they will inevitably have to broaden their support base, I am afraid they will grow excessively populist and may even exploit prejudices and notions strongly held by their Old Labour sympathisers. Also, Britain's voting system does not reward small parties.

I think I might join the Tories first, then if I feel they are trying to stifle my views I have an excuse to join UKIP.
Reply 8
Original post by The Dictator
UKIP are also a small party ,and if I join it there will be more room for promotion and to input my views. But as they will inevitably have to broaden their support base, I am afraid they will grow excessively populist and may even exploit prejudices and notions strongly held by their Old Labour sympathisers. Also, Britain's voting system does not reward small parties.

I think I might join the Tories first, then if I feel they are trying to stifle my views I have an excuse to join UKIP.


Tory grassroots (especially in rural constituents) tends to be old and very Kipy so you may enjoy it although i'm not sure how much effect you'd be able to have on actual policy. The notion that they will also go to the right post-Cameron also depends on the fact that people leaving for Ukip have not led to the party membership electing a leader being closer to the center than it has been historically.

Good luck anyhow.
UKIP
Reply 10
Don't join either of them. Parties are about interests, not principles. Go join a think tank if you want ideological purity.
Original post by Pee jay
Don't join either of them. Parties are about interests, not principles. Go join a think tank if you want ideological purity.


Well, I am quite an ambitious person...
UKIP needs more libertarian thinkers like Carswell joining them again. It does have to be careful to not get taken over by social conservatives.

The Youth wing of UKIP are were much of the libertarianism comes from.
Reply 13
I'm an ethnic minority and I support what UKIP are trying to for Britain. They are not a racist party at all.
I thought only old people vote for UKIP
Original post by Allaboutthatbass
I thought only old people vote for UKIP


Their core vote is old, white and male but they attract protest votes. Their very much a minority among those under 30 though.
Original post by Falcatas
UKIP needs more libertarian thinkers like Carswell joining them again. It does have to be careful to not get taken over by social conservatives.

The Youth wing of UKIP are were much of the libertarianism comes from.


See i do believe Carswell is libertarian but Ukip's deputy leader supports the death penalty and believes gay marriage to be wrong rather than because of the ECHR. So i question whether he's picked the right party.
Original post by Rakas21
See i do believe Carswell is libertarian but Ukip's deputy leader supports the death penalty and believes gay marriage to be wrong rather than because of the ECHR. So i question whether he's picked the right party.



Well gay marriage shouldn't be an issue as the libertarian stance would be to completely separate marriage from the state allowing individual churches to define it as they want. It was a fairly minor issue as civil partnership already had the same legal benefits but regardless I think the state should get out of the marriage business.

I do agree however that libertarians should oppose the death penalty but with from arguments about human error rather than the emotional argument (its cruel!).
Even though I am a libertarian I have no problem with the death penalty from a purely justice orientated perspective but oppose it due to the possibly of wrongful execution as well as arguments concerning the state to be the ultimate arbiter of life and death.


Paul Nuttal is also against abortion which is also another social conservative policy although even libertarians still debate abortion even though they should support the right of the woman to choose.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by Falcatas
Well gay marriage shouldn't be an issue as the libertarian stance would be to completely separate marriage from the state allowing individual churches to define it as they want. It was a fairly minor issue as civil partnership already had the same legal benefits but regardless I think the state should get out of the marriage business.

I do agree however that libertarians should oppose the death penalty but with from arguments about human error rather than the emotional argument (its cruel!).
Even though I am a libertarian I have no problem with the death penalty from a purely justice orientated perspective but oppose it due to the possibly of wrongful execution as well as arguments concerning the state to be the ultimate arbiter of life and death.

Paul Nuttal is also against abortion which is also another social conservative policy.


Yes, i take a libertarian stance on those three issues (i suppose you'd say i was conservative with regards to education, foreign policy and defense mostly).
Original post by Falcatas
Well gay marriage shouldn't be an issue as the libertarian stance would be to completely separate marriage from the state allowing individual churches to define it as they want. It was a fairly minor issue as civil partnership already had the same legal benefits but regardless I think the state should get out of the marriage business.


You're against a universal definition of marriage enshrined in law? If Libertarians want freedom surely they want all people to be free to get married and have all the rights owed to them rather than be limited by the decrees of 'individual churches'. I wouldn't trust their doctrines over jurisprudents and democratically elected representatives.

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