Career in Film & TV
What are some good degrees to take to get into a career in Film & TV? At the moment I am looking at the more traditional degrees such as Philosophy and English Language (I can't do lit as I didn't do it at A level)
I feel as though a film/media/communications degree would not get me anywhere but would be more useful for the job I want.
I feel as though a film/media/communications degree would not get me anywhere but would be more useful for the job I want.
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Stick to the traditional subjects, much more useful in the long run. If you get some Film/TV experience along the way by volunteering, helping out on other's films, learning how to use cameras and editing equipment then you will not be handicapped by not having a media related degree. In fact quite the opposite.
This is correct - do not listen to any other point of view!
This is correct - do not listen to any other point of view!
It doesn't matter what degree you get for TV - TVMan is absolutely spot on. There may be a teeny little bit of prejudice against people who have been to 'film school', lest they think they know how to make tv in the real world (they don't of course). But it is very handy to know how to use a camera, how to get shots, how to construct a narrative, how to use editing software. None of which you need to learn at uni.
What people who are employing newbies in TV want to know is a) can you drive? b) are you old enough to get coverage on the insurance c) do you have lots of initiative d) are you a hard worker who will get on with whatever needs doing in a pro-active, doesn't-need-to-be-asked kind of way e) are you pleasant to have around in the office/on location? f) are you going to annoy the contributors/talent?
It is worth getting a pure subject kind of degree for use in another job later on down the line, where they will care what degree you have.
I am very impressed by the above poster's 96% stat - so much so I am off to google that particular claim! The six week placement sounds like that is the thing that is the opportunity about that course - the opportunity to get under an employer's nose and show employers that you can be taken on for a long(er) term production. But they will still expect you to start at the bottom and learn the ropes, even if you have done a TV production degree.
By all means do the whole tv production degree thing if you want, but you don't remotely need to
What people who are employing newbies in TV want to know is a) can you drive? b) are you old enough to get coverage on the insurance c) do you have lots of initiative d) are you a hard worker who will get on with whatever needs doing in a pro-active, doesn't-need-to-be-asked kind of way e) are you pleasant to have around in the office/on location? f) are you going to annoy the contributors/talent?
It is worth getting a pure subject kind of degree for use in another job later on down the line, where they will care what degree you have.
I am very impressed by the above poster's 96% stat - so much so I am off to google that particular claim! The six week placement sounds like that is the thing that is the opportunity about that course - the opportunity to get under an employer's nose and show employers that you can be taken on for a long(er) term production. But they will still expect you to start at the bottom and learn the ropes, even if you have done a TV production degree.
By all means do the whole tv production degree thing if you want, but you don't remotely need to
Original post by zoeamanda
What are some good degrees to take to get into a career in Film & TV? At the moment I am looking at the more traditional degrees such as Philosophy and English Language (I can't do lit as I didn't do it at A level)
I feel as though a film/media/communications degree would not get me anywhere but would be more useful for the job I want.
I feel as though a film/media/communications degree would not get me anywhere but would be more useful for the job I want.
Hi
Whatever your University tells you, there is absolutely no chance that the employment rate in the TV industry from any institution is 96% after graduating, That simply does not happen, wherever you go. I would hazard a wild guess that if 25% of graduates from any year have had three months paid employment in the industry within two years of graduating they will have done extremely well.
It is a simple fact that the name of your degree is almost entirely irrelevant, as will be the grade. You will not learn anything doing your University course that will be of any advantage to you as virtually everyone who starts in the TV industry starts by doing unpaid work followed by starting at the bottom level - that of a Runner. You don't need a degree in anything to make tea and coffee and drive the crew around and you will learn more in the first week working in TV than you will have absorbed over three years doing a media related course.
If anyone is considering working in Television, the ONLY way to get work is by getting some relevant experience. If you can get that alongside doing a media degree all well and good but if you can get it by studying a more academic discipline then you gain other advantages in life that a media related degree will not get you.
Do not listen to University staff on Open Days who tell you different - they know not of what they speak!
Whatever your University tells you, there is absolutely no chance that the employment rate in the TV industry from any institution is 96% after graduating, That simply does not happen, wherever you go. I would hazard a wild guess that if 25% of graduates from any year have had three months paid employment in the industry within two years of graduating they will have done extremely well.
It is a simple fact that the name of your degree is almost entirely irrelevant, as will be the grade. You will not learn anything doing your University course that will be of any advantage to you as virtually everyone who starts in the TV industry starts by doing unpaid work followed by starting at the bottom level - that of a Runner. You don't need a degree in anything to make tea and coffee and drive the crew around and you will learn more in the first week working in TV than you will have absorbed over three years doing a media related course.
If anyone is considering working in Television, the ONLY way to get work is by getting some relevant experience. If you can get that alongside doing a media degree all well and good but if you can get it by studying a more academic discipline then you gain other advantages in life that a media related degree will not get you.
Do not listen to University staff on Open Days who tell you different - they know not of what they speak!
(edited 3 years ago)
I'm going to be very firm here, for the sake of anyone who might be considering entering this business, and tell you that what you say simply does not happen. Almost 100% of people who start in TV start as Runners (after working unpaid doing "work experience"). University experience (whatever equipment has been used) is not regarded as the equivalent of proper industry experience and conveys no advantage whatsoever. Employers do not watch runners' showreels; they are not useful and will not gain an applicant any advantage in the job market. Similarly a media based degree conveys no advantage whatsoever, save the opportunities you gain in gathering work experience. Remember, if you are lucky enough to get a first job in television you will not be recruited for your ability to make a film as you will be making the tea and coffee. Neither does anyone in televison have any interest in investing in your future and consequently has no care whether you may be a great Producer or Director in your spare time or were one at college.
I do not blame you for not knowing this - and your lecturers may tell you different - but if you look at the actual market for TV entrants and see what everyone else has had to do to break in then you will see that everything I have said above really is correct. University lecturers are in the business of recruiting students - what they will tell you is guided by those demands. When you graduate you will see what the real world of TV recruitment is like - where 150 eager graduates compete for one job and the people who make the recruitment decisions do so on the basis of how much real world experience those applicants have and (as happyinthehaze has said) whether they can drive, and are likely to be able to make tea, coffee and run around being helpful doing fairly menial jobs. University projects count for absolutely nothing I'm afraid.
I do not blame you for not knowing this - and your lecturers may tell you different - but if you look at the actual market for TV entrants and see what everyone else has had to do to break in then you will see that everything I have said above really is correct. University lecturers are in the business of recruiting students - what they will tell you is guided by those demands. When you graduate you will see what the real world of TV recruitment is like - where 150 eager graduates compete for one job and the people who make the recruitment decisions do so on the basis of how much real world experience those applicants have and (as happyinthehaze has said) whether they can drive, and are likely to be able to make tea, coffee and run around being helpful doing fairly menial jobs. University projects count for absolutely nothing I'm afraid.
(edited 3 years ago)
Hi, I know the above is all a bit disappointing in tone but I can assure you I do know what I am talking about. I imagine that The Community Channel is always eager to find free-to-air content (as is Youtube) but it is not "being broadcast on TV" in the way that one would regard proper TV production. The fact that your University project is being shown there says absolutely nothing about the quality of its content in terms of proper production, nor does it necessarily mean that the people who got together to assemble it have any skills worth having in a runner.
You may well have graduates from your institution who have eventually found jobs in production but they will most certainly not walked out of the University into those jobs. Like everyone they will have had to do work experience, unpaid work and endured periods of unemployment before clawing their way onto the first rung of the ladder. And they will stay on that first rung for some time before the lucky few (and minority) eventually get work as researchers.
If you are very fortunate, that is what your career path MAY look like - periods of unpaid work, then a short contract as a runner followed by stretches of being unemployed and then, if you are extremely fortunate and work very hard, the chance to pick up occasional contracts as a researcher. It will be no reflection of your own abilities but the chances are that you will not be working in the industry in ten years time
Do you think that that is an accurate description of your (and your contemporaries) likely career path - if not, or how else do you think it will map out?
You may well have graduates from your institution who have eventually found jobs in production but they will most certainly not walked out of the University into those jobs. Like everyone they will have had to do work experience, unpaid work and endured periods of unemployment before clawing their way onto the first rung of the ladder. And they will stay on that first rung for some time before the lucky few (and minority) eventually get work as researchers.
If you are very fortunate, that is what your career path MAY look like - periods of unpaid work, then a short contract as a runner followed by stretches of being unemployed and then, if you are extremely fortunate and work very hard, the chance to pick up occasional contracts as a researcher. It will be no reflection of your own abilities but the chances are that you will not be working in the industry in ten years time
Do you think that that is an accurate description of your (and your contemporaries) likely career path - if not, or how else do you think it will map out?
(edited 3 years ago)
We both know that none of that is remotely true! It is not even within the bounds of possibility that - for instance - an ITV company has taken on a raw graduate as a researcher, it simply does not happen.
You will not get a job straight out of Uni. If you doubt that I suggest that you look at any of the numerous industry websites that exist, all written by industry insiders, that give chapter and verse on likely career progression after University, the value of a University degree, the necessity of gaining work experience before you even consider picking up a paid job. Every single one of those sites will tell you that the first paid position a graduate will get (if they ever get one) will be that of a runner - but only the very lucky few will ever get those jobs.
Have you ever looked at any of these sites? Do you really think you will walk into a paid job straight out of University? I cannot believe your lecturers are really suggesting that!
You will not get a job straight out of Uni. If you doubt that I suggest that you look at any of the numerous industry websites that exist, all written by industry insiders, that give chapter and verse on likely career progression after University, the value of a University degree, the necessity of gaining work experience before you even consider picking up a paid job. Every single one of those sites will tell you that the first paid position a graduate will get (if they ever get one) will be that of a runner - but only the very lucky few will ever get those jobs.
Have you ever looked at any of these sites? Do you really think you will walk into a paid job straight out of University? I cannot believe your lecturers are really suggesting that!
(edited 3 years ago)
Ok, well it is clear that they isn't prepared to listen but there will be others who will drop in here who read this and are contemplating courses with a view to entering the TV industry. For those it is well worth considering this: almost everyone who recruits young people to work in the industry will tell you the same thing - that a media related degree, in itself, is not regarded higher than a degree in any other subject. As happyinthhaze pointed out above, some will be prejudiced against media studies type degrees but most will be relatively even handed. What recruiters are looking for is relevant work experience in proper, professional production. If you can get that while doing a media degree then great but if you choose not to do a media related degree then seek that experience elsewhere. If you do do a non media degree you may also find that you are more marketable if the worst happens and you cannot get a job in the industry. Good academic subjects are always worth studying, at the best Universities if you can get in to them, and as such, no matter whether you want to work in TV or not, I always recommend that people study the most academic subject they can at the best University they can get in to. To repeat: you will not disadvantage yourself in terms of a media career if you go down that route!
Nothing - absolutely nothing - you learn as part of a media degree is going to be useful for you in terms of getting that first paid job, or doing it. That first paid job (after a period of working unpaid) will be as a runner and the person recruiting you for that is not looking for you to be a Producer or Director for them in the future, they simply want you to make tea and coffee and do the bottom rung jobs that exist in a production environment.
It is well worth anyone considering a career in the industry to look, in the first instance, at these websites. They are written by professionals for professionals in the industry. Every single one will confirm all the above - so if your University lecturers or Open Day representatives tell you any different they are simply wrong!
http://www.theunitlist.com/
www.tvwatercooler.org/
https://www.facebook.com/groups/tv.runners/
Nothing - absolutely nothing - you learn as part of a media degree is going to be useful for you in terms of getting that first paid job, or doing it. That first paid job (after a period of working unpaid) will be as a runner and the person recruiting you for that is not looking for you to be a Producer or Director for them in the future, they simply want you to make tea and coffee and do the bottom rung jobs that exist in a production environment.
It is well worth anyone considering a career in the industry to look, in the first instance, at these websites. They are written by professionals for professionals in the industry. Every single one will confirm all the above - so if your University lecturers or Open Day representatives tell you any different they are simply wrong!
http://www.theunitlist.com/
www.tvwatercooler.org/
https://www.facebook.com/groups/tv.runners/
(edited 3 years ago)
I can't help wading into this of course! Finally, some action on the TV thread.
This debate was all about whether a degree in media or TV production would assist you to get into TV, rather than whether you learned anything useful on a media or TV production degree.
Readers, have no doubt about it! Any kind of media-related degree is not going to help you to get your first job in TV. Nor will it confer any advantage whatsover on you as a candidate for any other job in the future. So, when you say that you as a grad of your course would get a job against another candidate because you have your degree, you are very very wrong. Very wrong! When it comes to recruiting in TV, and I have recruited a lot of telly bods, you are looking for someone who has the experience you are looking for, and the attitude you need, having ideally made the type of show you are producing already, for the same broadcaster, ideally the same commissioner editor. For newbies, you are looking for experience of either the production office, or the production on location. I personally look for attitude, initiative, can-do approach, someone who can see what to do before it needs doing, someone who is a good member of the team. If this person shows character and talent and potential, it will be spotted and (personally speaking in the kind of TV background I have) that person will be spotted and advanced quite quickly.
I would say it certainly assists fairly quickly if you are tech savvy and understand gear/kit/cameras, and I mean really properly understand them and how to look after them. It is generally a problem on location getting the less experienced members of the team to look after the kit - bits get left around, broken, lost and it all costs money, plus the cameras are less effective for the next user.
That does not mean to say that, once you get going, your degree won't be any use - it is likely to help you.
Experience gained in student productions doesn't count I'm afraid - you can't draw any equivalency between student productions and proper broadcast telly. And by broadcast telly, really we are talking BBC, ITV, C4 - I do think, again, that the experience won't go to waste further on down the line for you. This is because making proper broadcast telly is a business, it is just as much about money and the budget as it is about creativity. You are making the programme as a product for a client, it needs to be and look a certain way and have a certain content. Plus, TV is hierarchical - even though it can be collaborative - if you are lucky enough to work on anything where you can be collaborative - mostly, you are there to do a job that someone else needs you to do, like they want you to do it. You are there to deliver to the commissioner editor what the controller wants. Ultimately. This is partly why the student stuff is not that relevant.
The second reason why student films are not that relevant is that TV production is pressurised and you need people who can cut the mustard - student films are not made in the same way so they are not proof that you have the chops for real telly production.
It is nice to have keen, enthusiastic people who are very interested in TV around, and in this way a TV degree could show this, but really it is down to your attitude - if you are wise, you will not allow a sense of entitlement to seep through in any TV environment - because this just will not do! If you do this, it will likely work against you. Inexperienced members of the team who think they are too good to be doing lowly jobs come a cropper pretty quickly as they are a liability - you will be weeded out quite quickly.
It is important to learn the ropes of the business before you start - I have always found that good people are good at all levels. So, if you have a good runner, then that person likely will make a good researcher and a good director.
This is all a bit rambly isn't it. TVMan definitely knows his stuff by the way - it's obvious to me.
What else? If you really are interested in TV, watch lots and lots of TV and start getting your head around the broadcaster commissioning remits, freely available. Oh yes, and the Unit List does do some very good guides - there is one particularly well written one about 'How to be a good TV runner' which is exactly right.
This debate was all about whether a degree in media or TV production would assist you to get into TV, rather than whether you learned anything useful on a media or TV production degree.
Readers, have no doubt about it! Any kind of media-related degree is not going to help you to get your first job in TV. Nor will it confer any advantage whatsover on you as a candidate for any other job in the future. So, when you say that you as a grad of your course would get a job against another candidate because you have your degree, you are very very wrong. Very wrong! When it comes to recruiting in TV, and I have recruited a lot of telly bods, you are looking for someone who has the experience you are looking for, and the attitude you need, having ideally made the type of show you are producing already, for the same broadcaster, ideally the same commissioner editor. For newbies, you are looking for experience of either the production office, or the production on location. I personally look for attitude, initiative, can-do approach, someone who can see what to do before it needs doing, someone who is a good member of the team. If this person shows character and talent and potential, it will be spotted and (personally speaking in the kind of TV background I have) that person will be spotted and advanced quite quickly.
I would say it certainly assists fairly quickly if you are tech savvy and understand gear/kit/cameras, and I mean really properly understand them and how to look after them. It is generally a problem on location getting the less experienced members of the team to look after the kit - bits get left around, broken, lost and it all costs money, plus the cameras are less effective for the next user.
That does not mean to say that, once you get going, your degree won't be any use - it is likely to help you.
Experience gained in student productions doesn't count I'm afraid - you can't draw any equivalency between student productions and proper broadcast telly. And by broadcast telly, really we are talking BBC, ITV, C4 - I do think, again, that the experience won't go to waste further on down the line for you. This is because making proper broadcast telly is a business, it is just as much about money and the budget as it is about creativity. You are making the programme as a product for a client, it needs to be and look a certain way and have a certain content. Plus, TV is hierarchical - even though it can be collaborative - if you are lucky enough to work on anything where you can be collaborative - mostly, you are there to do a job that someone else needs you to do, like they want you to do it. You are there to deliver to the commissioner editor what the controller wants. Ultimately. This is partly why the student stuff is not that relevant.
The second reason why student films are not that relevant is that TV production is pressurised and you need people who can cut the mustard - student films are not made in the same way so they are not proof that you have the chops for real telly production.
It is nice to have keen, enthusiastic people who are very interested in TV around, and in this way a TV degree could show this, but really it is down to your attitude - if you are wise, you will not allow a sense of entitlement to seep through in any TV environment - because this just will not do! If you do this, it will likely work against you. Inexperienced members of the team who think they are too good to be doing lowly jobs come a cropper pretty quickly as they are a liability - you will be weeded out quite quickly.
It is important to learn the ropes of the business before you start - I have always found that good people are good at all levels. So, if you have a good runner, then that person likely will make a good researcher and a good director.
This is all a bit rambly isn't it. TVMan definitely knows his stuff by the way - it's obvious to me.
What else? If you really are interested in TV, watch lots and lots of TV and start getting your head around the broadcaster commissioning remits, freely available. Oh yes, and the Unit List does do some very good guides - there is one particularly well written one about 'How to be a good TV runner' which is exactly right.
(edited 3 years ago)
Oh, and learn to drive if you can't already. On most shows that I have made, if you can't drive, you are, at best, a liability for the rest of the team and a health and safety risk at worse, unemployable.
The person you need to impress the most is the production manager, so people, butter up your production managers if you want a job in telly! That's my tip.
The person you need to impress the most is the production manager, so people, butter up your production managers if you want a job in telly! That's my tip.
Original post by holson
I contemplated doing a degree like that, but I thought it was too much money for something not certain,a degree in that field, does help you in terms of knowledge and connections, other than that, there is not much use of it. However, it is a good first step to take, if you're willing to pay that kind of money.
All degrees are useful if you get a good grade in them because they allow you to access graduate-level jobs! This is a useful thing to be able to do in life, you could argue.
Original post by daydreamer93
I contemplated doing a degree like that, but I thought it was too much money for something not certain,a degree in that field, does help you in terms of knowledge and connections, other than that, there is not much use of it. However, it is a good first step to take, if you're willing to pay that kind of money.
Original post by happyinthehaze
All degrees are useful if you get a good grade in them because they allow you to access graduate-level jobs! This is a useful thing to be able to do in life, you could argue.
not all degrees, the film industry is subjective and in the arts its always subjective, grades is not the most important thing, the most important thing is luck and a good portfolio.
(edited 9 years ago)
I agree.
But I'm not talking about the film industry. I'm talking about the kind of industries where what matters is your possession of a 2.1 degree in order to access them. You don't need a 2.1 degree to get into the film industry, but you really do for other industries. Therefore, get a good grade in your degree, whatever it is.
Plus, I agree that luck plays a part. So does tenacity.
QUOTE=daydreamer93;51952249]not all degrees, the film industry is subjective and in the arts its always subjective, grades is not the most important thing, the most important thing is luck and a good portfolio.
But I'm not talking about the film industry. I'm talking about the kind of industries where what matters is your possession of a 2.1 degree in order to access them. You don't need a 2.1 degree to get into the film industry, but you really do for other industries. Therefore, get a good grade in your degree, whatever it is.
Plus, I agree that luck plays a part. So does tenacity.
QUOTE=daydreamer93;51952249]not all degrees, the film industry is subjective and in the arts its always subjective, grades is not the most important thing, the most important thing is luck and a good portfolio.
I should make clear, further to that comment, that you may wish to switch industries at some point in your life and thus your degree, grade, university etc becomes important. Even if it is a lot further down the line.
Your 100% right 
As someone involved in the industry (mainly film side) a degree literally means nothing its all about the experience in fact I'd rather hire someone who has been working independently for 3 years and working in different companies than someone who only has a degree behind their belt. Many employers will agree 'real independent work' will always be preferred over a degree (As Allan Sugar) Uni work is guided. Attitude is a big one.
As someone involved in the industry (mainly film side) a degree literally means nothing its all about the experience in fact I'd rather hire someone who has been working independently for 3 years and working in different companies than someone who only has a degree behind their belt. Many employers will agree 'real independent work' will always be preferred over a degree (As Allan Sugar) Uni work is guided. Attitude is a big one.Quick Reply
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