Ukraine.

[h="3"]Russia invades Ukraine. Again. And again. And yet again … using Saddam’s WMD[/h]“Russia reinforced what Western and Ukrainian officials described as a stealth invasion on Wednesday [August 27], sending armored troops across the border as it expanded the conflict to a new section of Ukrainian territory. The latest incursion, which Ukraine’s military said included five armored personnel carriers, was at least the third movement of troops and weapons from Russia across the southeast part of the border this week.”
None of the photos accompanying this New York Times story online showed any of these Russian troops or armored vehicles.
“The Obama administration,” the story continued, “has asserted over the past week that the Russians had moved artillery, air-defense systems and armor to help the separatists in Donetsk and Luhansk. ‘These incursions indicate a Russian-directed counteroffensive is likely underway’, Jen Psaki, the State Department spokeswoman, said. At the department’s daily briefing in Washington, Ms. Psaki also criticized what she called the Russian government’s ‘unwillingness to tell the truth’ that its military had sent soldiers as deep as 30 miles inside Ukraine territory.”
Thirty miles inside Ukraine territory and not a single satellite photo, not a camera anywhere around, not even a one-minute video to show for it. “Ms. Psaki apparently [sic] was referring to videos of captured Russian soldiers, distributed by the Ukrainian government.” The Times apparently forgot to inform its readers where they could see these videos.
“The Russian aim, one Western official said, may possibly be to seize an outlet to the sea in the event that Russia tries to establish a separatist enclave in eastern Ukraine.”
This of course hasn’t taken place. So what happened to all these Russian soldiers 30 miles inside Ukraine? What happened to all the armored vehicles, weapons, and equipment?
“The United States has photographs that show the Russian artillery moved into Ukraine, American officials say. One photo dated last Thursday, shown to a New York Times reporter, shows Russian military units moving self-propelled artillery into Ukraine. Another photo, dated Saturday, shows the artillery in firing positions in Ukraine.”
Where are these photographs? And how will we know that these are Russian soldiers? And how will we know that the photos were taken in Ukraine? But most importantly, where are the ****ing photographs?
Why am I so cynical? Because the Ukrainian and US governments have been feeding us these scare stories for eight months now, without clear visual or other evidence, often without even common sense. Here are a few of the many other examples, before and after the one above:

•

The Wall Street Journal (March 28) reported: “Russian troops massing near Ukraine are actively concealing their positions and establishing supply lines that could be used in a prolonged deployment, ratcheting up concerns that Moscow is preparing for another [sic] major incursion and not conducting exercises as it claims, US officials said.”

•

“The Ukrainian government charged that the Russian military was not only approaching but had actually crossed the border into rebel-held regions.” (Washington Post, November 7)

•

“U.S. Air Force Gen. Philip M. Breedlove told reporters in Bulgaria that NATO had observed Russian tanks, Russian artillery, Russian air defense systems and Russian combat troops enter Ukraine across a completely wide-open border with Russia in the previous two days.” (Washington Post, November 13)

•

“Ukraine accuses Russia of sending more soldiers and weapons to help rebels prepare for a new offensive. The Kremlin has repeatedly denied aiding the separatists.” (Reuters, November 16)

Since the February US-backed coup in Ukraine, the State Department has made one accusation after another about Russian military actions in Eastern Ukraine without presenting any kind of satellite imagery or other visual or documentary evidence; or they present something that’s very unclear and wholly inconclusive, such as unmarked vehicles, or unsourced reports, or citing “social media”; what we’re left with is often no more than just an accusation. The Ukrainian government has matched them.
On top of all this we should keep in mind that if Moscow decided to invade Ukraine they’d certainly provide air cover for their ground forces. There has been no mention of air cover.
This is all reminiscent of the numerous stories in the past three years of “Syrian planes bombing defenseless citizens”. Have you ever seen a photo or video of a Syrian government plane dropping bombs? Or of the bombs exploding? When the source of the story is mentioned, it’s almost invariably the rebels who are fighting against the Syrian government. Then there’s the “chemical weapon” attacks by the same evil Assad government. When a photo or video has accompanied the story I’ve never once seen grieving loved ones or media present; not one person can be seen wearing a gas mask. Is it only children killed or suffering? No rebels?
And then there’s the July 17 shootdown of Malaysia Flight MH17, over eastern Ukraine, taking 298 lives, which Washington would love to pin on Russia or the pro-Russian rebels. The US government – and therefore the US media, the EU, and NATO – want us all to believe it was the rebels and/or Russia behind it. The world is still waiting for any evidence. Or even a motivation. Anything at all. President Obama is not waiting. In a talk on November 15 in Australia, he spoke of “opposing Russia’s aggression against Ukraine – which is a threat to the world, as we saw in the appalling shoot-down of MH17”. Based on my reading, I’d guess that it was the Ukranian government behind the shootdown, mistaking it for Putin’s plane that reportedly was in the area.
Can it be said with certainty that all the above accusations were lies? No, but the burden of proof is on the accusers, and the world is still waiting. The accusers would like to create the impression that there are two sides to each question without actually having to supply one of them.

Reply 44

reciproversexclu

Original post by Rakas21

Certainly. After the victory of the west it was expected that Russia would join them however since Putin has come to power he's turned Russia into 'an energy company with an army' and has pretty much decided that Russia will lead rather than follow.

Georgia and Ukraine have simply marked the first shots in the new phase of an expansionist west and Russia. In years to come we may have Iran to deal with as proxy since it's somewhat a puppet of Russia (and by extension Lebanon and probably a few others).

Aye. Who was it that said the Cold War never ended.

victory, lead and follow sum up much of the conditioned thinking and contemporary mindset that may ensure our repeating past mistakes and us never Learning from History to Humanity's advantage: just read the posts from those convinced this happened and that happened - which definitive sources do they follow ?

Anyone who believes that everything that we are presented with in one history book [or media source] is factual should try reading a selection of history books and will realise there are different interpretations of events depicted.
The trash with power have Long tainted the Truth.

Could you please elaborate Rakas on what you mean by " In years to come we may have Iran to deal with as proxy since it's somewhat a puppet of Russia (and by extension Lebanon and probably a few others)." ? ( I have no idea what your meaning is/ was intended. )

Reply 45

Rakas21

21

Original post by reciproversexclu

victory, lead and follow sum up much of the conditioned thinking and contemporary mindset that may ensure our repeating past mistakes and us never Learning from History to Humanity's advantage: just read the posts from those convinced this happened and that happened - which definitive sources do they follow ?

Anyone who believes that everything that we are presented with in one history book [or media source] is factual should try reading a selection of history books and will realise there are different interpretations of events depicted.
The trash with power have Long tainted the Truth.

Could you please elaborate Rakas on what you mean by " In years to come we may have Iran to deal with as proxy since it's somewhat a puppet of Russia (and by extension Lebanon and probably a few others)." ? ( I have no idea what your meaning is/ was intended. )

The meaning is that Russia will support Iran's nuclear bid and ally against it's Sunni enemies in the region. Hence this marks another proxy war since Russia is already providing the Iranian military with arms.

Reply 46

Pegasus2

16

Original post by Lionheart96

[h="3"]Russia invades Ukraine. Again. And again. And yet again … using Saddam’s WMD[/h]“Russia reinforced what Western and Ukrainian officials described as a stealth invasion on Wednesday [August 27], sending armored troops across the border as it expanded the conflict to a new section of Ukrainian territory. The latest incursion, which Ukraine’s military said included five armored personnel carriers, was at least the third movement of troops and weapons from Russia across the southeast part of the border this week.”
None of the photos accompanying this New York Times story online showed any of these Russian troops or armored vehicles.
“The Obama administration,” the story continued, “has asserted over the past week that the Russians had moved artillery, air-defense systems and armor to help the separatists in Donetsk and Luhansk. ‘These incursions indicate a Russian-directed counteroffensive is likely underway’, Jen Psaki, the State Department spokeswoman, said. At the department’s daily briefing in Washington, Ms. Psaki also criticized what she called the Russian government’s ‘unwillingness to tell the truth’ that its military had sent soldiers as deep as 30 miles inside Ukraine territory.”
Thirty miles inside Ukraine territory and not a single satellite photo, not a camera anywhere around, not even a one-minute video to show for it. “Ms. Psaki apparently [sic] was referring to videos of captured Russian soldiers, distributed by the Ukrainian government.” The Times apparently forgot to inform its readers where they could see these videos.
“The Russian aim, one Western official said, may possibly be to seize an outlet to the sea in the event that Russia tries to establish a separatist enclave in eastern Ukraine.”
This of course hasn’t taken place. So what happened to all these Russian soldiers 30 miles inside Ukraine? What happened to all the armored vehicles, weapons, and equipment?
“The United States has photographs that show the Russian artillery moved into Ukraine, American officials say. One photo dated last Thursday, shown to a New York Times reporter, shows Russian military units moving self-propelled artillery into Ukraine. Another photo, dated Saturday, shows the artillery in firing positions in Ukraine.”
Where are these photographs? And how will we know that these are Russian soldiers? And how will we know that the photos were taken in Ukraine? But most importantly, where are the ****ing photographs?
Why am I so cynical? Because the Ukrainian and US governments have been feeding us these scare stories for eight months now, without clear visual or other evidence, often without even common sense. Here are a few of the many other examples, before and after the one above:

•

The Wall Street Journal (March 28) reported: “Russian troops massing near Ukraine are actively concealing their positions and establishing supply lines that could be used in a prolonged deployment, ratcheting up concerns that Moscow is preparing for another [sic] major incursion and not conducting exercises as it claims, US officials said.”

•

“The Ukrainian government charged that the Russian military was not only approaching but had actually crossed the border into rebel-held regions.” (Washington Post, November 7)

•

“U.S. Air Force Gen. Philip M. Breedlove told reporters in Bulgaria that NATO had observed Russian tanks, Russian artillery, Russian air defense systems and Russian combat troops enter Ukraine across a completely wide-open border with Russia in the previous two days.” (Washington Post, November 13)

•

“Ukraine accuses Russia of sending more soldiers and weapons to help rebels prepare for a new offensive. The Kremlin has repeatedly denied aiding the separatists.” (Reuters, November 16)

Since the February US-backed coup in Ukraine, the State Department has made one accusation after another about Russian military actions in Eastern Ukraine without presenting any kind of satellite imagery or other visual or documentary evidence; or they present something that’s very unclear and wholly inconclusive, such as unmarked vehicles, or unsourced reports, or citing “social media”; what we’re left with is often no more than just an accusation. The Ukrainian government has matched them.
On top of all this we should keep in mind that if Moscow decided to invade Ukraine they’d certainly provide air cover for their ground forces. There has been no mention of air cover.
This is all reminiscent of the numerous stories in the past three years of “Syrian planes bombing defenseless citizens”. Have you ever seen a photo or video of a Syrian government plane dropping bombs? Or of the bombs exploding? When the source of the story is mentioned, it’s almost invariably the rebels who are fighting against the Syrian government. Then there’s the “chemical weapon” attacks by the same evil Assad government. When a photo or video has accompanied the story I’ve never once seen grieving loved ones or media present; not one person can be seen wearing a gas mask. Is it only children killed or suffering? No rebels?
And then there’s the July 17 shootdown of Malaysia Flight MH17, over eastern Ukraine, taking 298 lives, which Washington would love to pin on Russia or the pro-Russian rebels. The US government – and therefore the US media, the EU, and NATO – want us all to believe it was the rebels and/or Russia behind it. The world is still waiting for any evidence. Or even a motivation. Anything at all. President Obama is not waiting. In a talk on November 15 in Australia, he spoke of “opposing Russia’s aggression against Ukraine – which is a threat to the world, as we saw in the appalling shoot-down of MH17”. Based on my reading, I’d guess that it was the Ukranian government behind the shootdown, mistaking it for Putin’s plane that reportedly was in the area.
Can it be said with certainty that all the above accusations were lies? No, but the burden of proof is on the accusers, and the world is still waiting. The accusers would like to create the impression that there are two sides to each question without actually having to supply one of them.

I take it you haven't seen the video's of Assad's forces dropping barrel bombs on what's left of Aleppo's hospitals and the doctors that remain trying to save people who have had their legs blown off.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_iYQlMw0r0

I won't link the latter one since it's to graphic for here.

Also, why would a nation post satalite imagery? It would give away how good it's spy capabilities were. For the record, sat images have been released by Nato that show Rus troop movements.

Rus on the other hand releases sat images which are so badly photoshopped it's almost funny. Trying to show a ground attack Ukranian MiG shooting down a promotional picture of an air liner, with a missile, from 500 meters away.

You can pretty much tell what Russia is doing by seeing what they accuse the other side of, they are never at fault. At the end of the day all you need is to look at which country has press censorship and supression of free press in the newspaper/interenet and that tells you everything.

It's also known that Rus has an official operation to post its propaganda crap on internet message boards in order to gain support. I'll admit that I know the US does this too, in some cases, but to a far lesser extent.

Denying the attrocities in Syria is almost offensive after what I saw last week. So please, save your complete crap speach for somewhere else.

Reply 47

Original post by Pegasus2

I take it you haven't seen the video's of Assad's forces dropping barrel bombs on what's left of Aleppo's hospitals and the doctors that remain trying to save people who have had their legs blown off.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_iYQlMw0r0

I won't link the latter one since it's to graphic for here.

Also, why would a nation post satalite imagery? It would give away how good it's spy capabilities were. For the record, sat images have been released by Nato that show Rus troop movements.

Rus on the other hand releases sat images which are so badly photoshopped it's almost funny. Trying to show a ground attack Ukranian MiG shooting down a promotional picture of an air liner, with a missile, from 500 meters away.

You can pretty much tell what Russia is doing by seeing what they accuse the other side of, they are never at fault. At the end of the day all you need is to look at which country has press censorship and supression of free press in the newspaper/interenet and that tells you everything.

It's also known that Rus has an official operation to post its propaganda crap on internet message boards in order to gain support. I'll admit that I know the US does this too, in some cases, but to a far lesser extent.

Denying the attrocities in Syria is almost offensive after what I saw last week. So please, save your complete crap speach for somewhere else.

I take it you haven't seen the videos of syrian freedom fighters eat the heart of their enemies.
If you think the west has free media, you haven't been paying attention

Reply 48

Pegasus2

16

Original post by Lionheart96

I take it you haven't seen the videos of syrian freedom fighters eat the heart of their enemies.
If you think the west has free media, you haven't been paying attention

I don't see what that has to go with anything? Good smoke screen.

If you think it's oppressed to anywhere near the levels it is in Rus, you're deluded.

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 49

Original post by Pegasus2

I don't see what that has to go with anything? Good smoke screen.

If you think it's oppressed to anywhere near the levels it is in Rus, you're deluded.

Haha i never said its oppressed, its the people that are being oppressed and its the media that is contributing to that, willingly.
it is you who are deluded then, when you cannot see the fault in your media.

Reply 50

DavidSilvaMCFC

Original post by Lionheart96

Russia invades Ukraine. Again. And again. And yet again … using Saddam’s WMD

“Russia reinforced what Western and Ukrainian officials described as a stealth invasion on Wednesday [August 27], sending armored troops across the border as it expanded the conflict to a new section of Ukrainian territory. The latest incursion, which Ukraine’s military said included five armored personnel carriers, was at least the third movement of troops and weapons from Russia across the southeast part of the border this week.”
None of the photos accompanying this New York Times story online showed any of these Russian troops or armored vehicles.
“The Obama administration,” the story continued, “has asserted over the past week that the Russians had moved artillery, air-defense systems and armor to help the separatists in Donetsk and Luhansk. ‘These incursions indicate a Russian-directed counteroffensive is likely underway’, Jen Psaki, the State Department spokeswoman, said. At the department’s daily briefing in Washington, Ms. Psaki also criticized what she called the Russian government’s ‘unwillingness to tell the truth’ that its military had sent soldiers as deep as 30 miles inside Ukraine territory.”
Thirty miles inside Ukraine territory and not a single satellite photo, not a camera anywhere around, not even a one-minute video to show for it. “Ms. Psaki apparently [sic] was referring to videos of captured Russian soldiers, distributed by the Ukrainian government.” The Times apparently forgot to inform its readers where they could see these videos.
“The Russian aim, one Western official said, may possibly be to seize an outlet to the sea in the event that Russia tries to establish a separatist enclave in eastern Ukraine.”
This of course hasn’t taken place. So what happened to all these Russian soldiers 30 miles inside Ukraine? What happened to all the armored vehicles, weapons, and equipment?
“The United States has photographs that show the Russian artillery moved into Ukraine, American officials say. One photo dated last Thursday, shown to a New York Times reporter, shows Russian military units moving self-propelled artillery into Ukraine. Another photo, dated Saturday, shows the artillery in firing positions in Ukraine.”
Where are these photographs? And how will we know that these are Russian soldiers? And how will we know that the photos were taken in Ukraine? But most importantly, where are the ****ing photographs?
Why am I so cynical? Because the Ukrainian and US governments have been feeding us these scare stories for eight months now, without clear visual or other evidence, often without even common sense. Here are a few of the many other examples, before and after the one above:

•

The Wall Street Journal (March 28) reported: “Russian troops massing near Ukraine are actively concealing their positions and establishing supply lines that could be used in a prolonged deployment, ratcheting up concerns that Moscow is preparing for another [sic] major incursion and not conducting exercises as it claims, US officials said.”

•

“The Ukrainian government charged that the Russian military was not only approaching but had actually crossed the border into rebel-held regions.” (Washington Post, November 7)

•

“U.S. Air Force Gen. Philip M. Breedlove told reporters in Bulgaria that NATO had observed Russian tanks, Russian artillery, Russian air defense systems and Russian combat troops enter Ukraine across a completely wide-open border with Russia in the previous two days.” (Washington Post, November 13)

•

“Ukraine accuses Russia of sending more soldiers and weapons to help rebels prepare for a new offensive. The Kremlin has repeatedly denied aiding the separatists.” (Reuters, November 16)

Since the February US-backed coup in Ukraine, the State Department has made one accusation after another about Russian military actions in Eastern Ukraine without presenting any kind of satellite imagery or other visual or documentary evidence; or they present something that’s very unclear and wholly inconclusive, such as unmarked vehicles, or unsourced reports, or citing “social media”; what we’re left with is often no more than just an accusation. The Ukrainian government has matched them.
On top of all this we should keep in mind that if Moscow decided to invade Ukraine they’d certainly provide air cover for their ground forces. There has been no mention of air cover.
This is all reminiscent of the numerous stories in the past three years of “Syrian planes bombing defenseless citizens”. Have you ever seen a photo or video of a Syrian government plane dropping bombs? Or of the bombs exploding? When the source of the story is mentioned, it’s almost invariably the rebels who are fighting against the Syrian government. Then there’s the “chemical weapon” attacks by the same evil Assad government. When a photo or video has accompanied the story I’ve never once seen grieving loved ones or media present; not one person can be seen wearing a gas mask. Is it only children killed or suffering? No rebels?
And then there’s the July 17 shootdown of Malaysia Flight MH17, over eastern Ukraine, taking 298 lives, which Washington would love to pin on Russia or the pro-Russian rebels. The US government – and therefore the US media, the EU, and NATO – want us all to believe it was the rebels and/or Russia behind it. The world is still waiting for any evidence. Or even a motivation. Anything at all. President Obama is not waiting. In a talk on November 15 in Australia, he spoke of “opposing Russia’s aggression against Ukraine – which is a threat to the world, as we saw in the appalling shoot-down of MH17”. Based on my reading, I’d guess that it was the Ukranian government behind the shootdown, mistaking it for Putin’s plane that reportedly was in the area.
Can it be said with certainty that all the above accusations were lies? No, but the burden of proof is on the accusers, and the world is still waiting. The accusers would like to create the impression that there are two sides to each question without actually having to supply one of them.

I think it's annoying that Kiev have to keep pointing to video and social media evidence, when all they have to do is point out that the leaders of the Donetsk and Luhansk rebels are Russian citizens and ex-FSB agents...

Edit: And where did you copy paste all that from? InfoWars? GlobalResearch.org? RussiaToday?

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 51

Original post by DavidSilvaMCFC

I think it's annoying that Kiev have to keep pointing to video and social media evidence, when all they have to do is point out that the leaders of the Donetsk and Luhansk rebels are Russian citizens and ex-FSB agents...

Edit: And where did you copy paste all that from? InfoWars? GlobalResearch.org? RussiaToday?

Its by the author William Blum who wrote Americas Deadliest Export: Democracy. brilliant book, this is an extract from his book which i got from his website. http://williamblum.org/aer/read/134

EDIT: if all of the leaders of the rebels were ex-fsb agents and russian citizens they would first need actual proof, and if they had the proof don't you think they would be shouting it out to the whole world to prove Russia is involved? In fact its not that well covered in any media western or Ukrainian. (I personally don't think that Russia isn't involved so don't attack me saying that i'm just defending Russia or whatever)

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 52

DavidSilvaMCFC

Original post by Lionheart96

Its by the author William Blum who wrote Americas Deadliest Export: Democracy. brilliant book, this is an extract from his book which i got from his website. http://williamblum.org/aer/read/134

EDIT: if all of the leaders of the rebels were ex-fsb agents and russian citizens they would first need actual proof, and if they had the proof don't you think they would be shouting it out to the whole world to prove Russia is involved? In fact its not that well covered in any media western or Ukrainian. (I personally don't think that Russia isn't involved so don't attack me saying that i'm just defending Russia or whatever)

Not all of them, but it is well known knowledge that many rebel leaders are non-ukrainian

Igor Strelkov
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/igor-strelkov-i-started-war-eastern-ukraine-1475982
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/russias-igor-strelkov-i-am-responsible-for-war-in-eastern-ukraine/511584.html

Alexei Borodai
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Borodai

Pavel Gubarev
http://maidantranslations.com/2014/03/09/arrested-self-proclaimed-governor-gubarev-turned-out-to-be-an-inveterate-russian-nazi-photos/
(Translated link)

Edit: This is also very similar to the case of a Russian agent in Transistria, There are also reports of him being in Donetsk. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Antyufeyev
[h="1"]

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 53

zgb1

2

Original post by Anonymous263

I don't think he said that Georgia attacked russian soil, he said that Georgia attacked russian peacekeepers which is what they did

if i recall correctly he compared it with mexicans storming the us border. Also in this Georgian-Ossetian conflict there should be on mind that there was etnical cleanings of georgians in South Ossetia back in 1991. But that is a failure of the Young Turk host who obvious dont know that.

The worst failur of Chen was when claid that Putin did not hae anthig tdo t the murding of Litwinenko.

Reply 54

Pegasus2

16

Original post by Lionheart96

Haha i never said its oppressed, its the people that are being oppressed and its the media that is contributing to that, willingly.
it is you who are deluded then, when you cannot see the fault in your media.

Elaborate.

Reply 55

Original post by Pegasus2

Elaborate.

90% of media is controlled by 6 corporations. News corp owns the top newspaper on 3 continents, The Wall Street Journal, The Sun and The Australian. News corp is owned by Rupert Murdoch.
http://www.businessinsider.com/these-6-corporations-control-90-of-the-media-in-america-2012-6?IR=T *CHECK THIS LINK OUT*
Lets take Rupert murdoch for example. Rupert Murdoch incidentally doesn't believe in climate change as he has an interest in the oil business. "British financier Lord Jacob Rothschild, a close Murdoch friend since the 1960s, served as deputy chairman of Murdoch's BSkyB corporation from 2003–2007, and Murdoch jointly invested with Rothschild in a 5.5 percent stake in Genie Oil and Gas, which conducted shale gas and oil exploration in Israel."
He, surprise surprise, doesn't believe in climate change. It must be a big coincidence that Fox News, owned by Murdoch has not been covering climate change with factual evidence http://politicalscrapbook.net/2012/11/fox-news-misleads-on-climate-change-93-of-the-time-says-report/

This is only one example of many, 6 corporations which control 90% of your 'free media', have their own agendas, they lie to us and push their own agenda, this isn't free media it is just as bad as Russia's state owned media.

Also the BBC isn't the bastion of free and fair news coverage. There main problem isn't that they falsely report on stories, their reporting is sound, the problem is that they ignore stories if it doesn't fit with the agenda of the government or simply omit facts and as George Orwell said "omission is the most powerful form of lie." I suggest you research more into this by yourself.

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 56

Original post by zgb1

if i recall correctly he compared it with mexicans storming the us border. Also in this Georgian-Ossetian conflict there should be on mind that there was etnical cleanings of georgians in South Ossetia back in 1991. But that is a failure of the Young Turk host who obvious dont know that.

The worst failur of Chen was when claid that Putin did not hae anthig tdo t the murding of Litwinenko.

I could barely make out the last line. we don't know for sure what happened to Litvinenko because as Cohen rightly states, the Scotland Yard will not publish the report and release the evidence that he was poisoned.
Your main argument about Russian invading Georgia was that Russia started it first, we can go further back in history to find that Georgia also did bad things to the Ossetians:
"Violence broke out in 1920 when Georgian Mensheviks sent National Guard and regular army units to the region to crush the uprisings. Ossetian sources claim that about 5,000 Ossetians were killed and more than 13,000 subsequently died from hunger and epidemics."

If we keep going back in history we see that both sides did terrible things to each other, the point is that Georgia attacked Russian peacekeepers and shelled a south Ossetian town, so Russia responded by sending troops.

Cohen compared this to if Mexico bombed an american town, killed american troops on the border, then the US would respond in the same manner. It was simply an example/comparison.

Reply 57

reciproversexclu

Original post by DavidSilvaMCFC

Not all of them, but it is well known knowledge that many rebel leaders are non-ukrainian

Igor Strelkov
Alexei Borodai
Pavel Gubarev
Edit: This is also very similar to the case of a Russian agent in Transistria, There are also reports of him being in Donetsk.

Natalia Yaresko, Olexandr Kvitashvili and Aivaras Abromavicius are also non-Ukrainian but are all now Ministers in the Kiev government.
http://euromaidanpress.com/2014/12/15/foreigners-in-the-ukrainian-government/

- I hope they do a good job regardless ...... and moderate the likes of "Andriy Parubiy, the new secretary of Ukraine's security council, was a co-founder of the Neo-Nazi Social-National Party of Ukraine (SNPU), otherwise known as Svoboda his deputy, Dmytro Yarosh, is the leader of a party called the Right Sector which, according to historian Timothy Stanley, "flies the old flag of the Ukrainian Nazi collaborators at its rallies, highest-ranking right-wing extremist is Deputy Prime Minister Oleksandr Sych, also a member of Svoboda, who believes that women should "lead the kind of lifestyle to avoid the risk of rape, including refraining from drinking alcohol and being in controversial company."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-hughes/the-neo-nazi-question-in_b_4938747.html

Original post by Rakas21

The meaning is that Russia will support Iran's nuclear bid and ally against it's Sunni enemies in the region. Hence this marks another proxy war since Russia is already providing the Iranian military with arms.

Since "providing he Iranian military with arms" is the only tangible in your welcome reply above, maybe the US engaged in 111 proxy wars in 2013 ???
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/william-hartung/the-pentagons-arguments-f_b_6100996.html

Some posters might be less trustful of US intentions and critical of others after reading this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covert_United_States_foreign_regime_change_actions

Reply 58

reciproversexclu