Summer Internship Advice

Hey

I really need some help and advice!!! I'm just about to start my 3rd year of my MPhys Physics Course (4years in total) at Oxford and after my degree I'd really like to get a city job as I'm not at all interested in going into research.

I want to start looking at internships for next summer, but have absolutely no idea what sort of career path I want! I'm pretty certain I'm not interested in Investment Banking/Finance (I took a financial physics module this year and didn't find it very inteesting) but other than that I have no idea. Everyone keeps suggesting Management Consultancy, but to be honest I have little idea of what that line of work entails! (Anyone explain?) Other than that, I don't really know what's out there and available to someone like me. I do want a well paid job (starting salary around £30k but must increase within couple of years etc) as I have an expensive hobby - when I start work I'll have to start paying for my horse's livery bills which are £160 pw!!!! So I need (and want) a job that will pay well.

Any suggestions?

Reply 1

Drogue

Well, for salary IB is the thing, but you do have to love it as it's a *lot* of work. To be honest, for that kind of salary, the only realistic options are jobs in finance/accountancy, consultancy, law or IT. The latter is something that works if you're already good at it, but it's pretty hard to reskill now to a good enough technical standard. The same with law really. Which leaves the first two.

Accountancy or the more broad 'professional services' are the biggest graduate employers. Deloitte has over 1500 places a year, and PwC very close to that. They all offer internships too, so they're a good place to look to see if it's for you. They pay well - starting salaries are usually ok (£20-30 000) but once qualified they rise quite quickly.

Consultancy is another big employer. The top consultants will pay very well, both starting (£30k+) and rising very well. However they're also *extremely* competitive. People like McKinsey and BCG have fewer than 50 UK places, so they're looking for an awful lot and reject many top applicants. It's worth a shot if it's what you want, but don't hold out too much. Out of the top ones, only BCG to my knowledge do internships, but they're reported to be very good. Your next tier down are still very good graduate employers though, people like Deloitte, CapGemini, OC&C, Accenture, etc. They all have different emphasises, do slightly different consultanct (Accenture are a process and IT consultancy, whereas OC&C are strategy consultants). These are competitive, but being a physics grad from Oxford would put you in a good position. Deloitte and Accenture I know offer internships, and OC&C do their strategy school, but not sure of any others. Salaries start around the same, perhaps slightly lower than the McK and BCG style, and rise quite a lot slower. You're unlikely to ever get on £1m+ salaries here, but £100k+ after 10-15 years is perfectly doable.

Don't overlook IB, there's a lot within it that might appeal. IBD (mergers and acquisitions) is the bit that often appeals for the money at first, however it's *long* hours. We're talking 100+. Expect to be a lacky for the company - all nighters are common, as is being woken up to come into work for something. But the pay is huge, with £50k+ possible in the first year and quickly rising after that.
Trading and sales is the other "front office" position. They're often split, and do pretty much what it says, trading equities, commodities or fixed-income products and selling them to clients. The pay at the top is higher than anywhere (when going to hedge funds, £1bn+ salaries are possible), and even at the lower levels they're huge. They work fewer hours than IBD, but 60+ is still normal and you're personal life has to come second - expect to cancel holidays if work is heavy and that sort of thing. Not many 25 year olds earn over £100k, but most in front office IB do.
Then there's the back office, operations, technology (IT), the heavily mathematical side (quant), structuring products, etc. This is less hours (though still well above 40), and less pay, though start salaries are still easily £30k+ and they do rise well, though not as much as front office.
All departments in IB offer internships, and while they're about the most competitive out there, they're great experience.

In short, if you want that sort of salary, your options are quite limited. If IB doesn't appeal, accountacy and consultancy are the only options I can see, without retraining. IB is a lot of work, to do it, it has to appeal. Accountacy is often seen as a poor-man's IB, however it's a very different atmosphere and is often less pressurised, easier on the hours and, to many people, a bit boring. Consultancy seems the more interesting, with long but not overly long hours (~50 is common) and high pay. However there are few internships, and getting into it can be competitive.

The main thing I'd say is look around for internships, there are many in places you wouldn't expect (I just finished at the FSA and *loved* it). But a dose of reality about salary may be needed - £30k starting salaries are rare, even many prestigious employers are nearer £20-25k at the start. They will rise, but very few people will earn over £100k in the first 10 years of work or so. Those that do are almost all working in finance, law or consulting though. Or are entrepreneurs.

Reply 2

Hoofbeat

Thanks for all your advice Will. Given me a *LOT* to think about :frown:

Reply 3

fuglyduckling

Excellent advice to which I'd just add a few things:

Accenture do some strategy work, though it is mainly IT and ops as you said; starting salaries for 2nd tier management consultants (Accenture, CapGem etc.) are about 28k (incl. healthcare and the like) + 5k bonus.

Another thing you might want to look at is blue-chip grad schemes. Work will be varied (you can choose to start in Marketing, Sales, HR, Product Engineering) and hours are much better than in IB or MC - 35-40 hours a week is what the websites state.

Well-known schemes for organisations such as L'Oreal, Proctor and Gamble, and Unilever are all decent and offer chances to work abroad as well as in the London HQs. They tend to promote rapidly. Salaries range from £22-27k, which is very reasonable when you consider the hours.

Reply 4

Hoofbeat

Do you have any more info in blue-chip grad schemes? I did a quick google search and just found the term "blue-chip" being used loosely, without really understanding it's meaning? Thanks.

Reply 5

fuglyduckling

The biggest companies in the UK: Tescos, Coca Cola...

Reply 6

Drogue

Chloe: Go to the careers fair and talk to people. Most of the large companies with good grad schemes/internships will be there. They even do an internship fair, though it's less well attended.

L'Oreal, P&G and Unilever schemes are predominantly marketing though. There are finance placements too, but most of the ones I've seen are marketing and sales related.

Reply 7

Varden

Who does the internship fair in Oxford and do you know around when it normally is :smile:

Reply 8

Hoofbeat

Varden

Who does the internship fair in Oxford and do you know around when it normally is :smile:

Yeah I'd be interested to know that.too. Been doing lots of researching on the careers website and they haven't got much information beyond Sept. Although I did hear about the management consultancy fair in October and have put that in my diary! If anyone knows when the general careers fair and also the internship fair is I'd be very greatful.

At the moment, I'm actually thinking accountancy might be a good idea for me, but still don't know enough about Mang Consultuancy to dismiss it. So maybe I'll apply for a couple of internships for both and see what offers I get and what I feel like doing in a couple of months? Is that sensible, or do people only usually apply for one type of internship?

Reply 9

Drogue

It's run by the careers service, IIRC. Future Flyers run the main careers fair, whereas the careers service run the specialist ones. As for timing, you'll get a pack for all Michaelmus timings at the start of the year from the careers service, I have to admit I don't remember when they are though.

Reply 10

Hoofbeat

Drogue

Are we supposed to get a pack every year? Because I never got one last year (or was that because I wasn't in my penultimate year?).

Reply 11

fuglyduckling

Hoofbeat

At the moment, I'm actually thinking accountancy might be a good idea for me, but still don't know enough about Mang Consultuancy to dismiss it. So maybe I'll apply for a couple of internships for both and see what offers I get and what I feel like doing in a couple of months? Is that sensible, or do people only usually apply for one type of internship?

I think it's a good idea: just make sure you spend enough time on each application to make it decent - you don't want to end up with nothing!

I personally think MC is way more interesting than accountancy but accept that the hours and travel are worse - they're both decent careers, though!

Reply 12

Hoofbeat

fuglyduckling

I think it's a good idea: just make sure you spend enough time on each application to make it decent - you don't want to end up with nothing!

That's what I thought. Gives me a few more months to decide and I could possibly do a couple of days experience at a local accountants (contact through family) over the xmas vac just to get a feel for it, as don't have time to do it before I apply for internship, and then it might help me decide what offers (if any!!!) to accept.