The Student Room Group

Informal Interview with VP at BB bank. Advice she gave..

I wanted to let you all know how my meeting with the VP from the BB went, and may be my experiences will help other people.

Key things:

1. When I started talking of my love for Front Office roles, I added that I also like some aspects of Middle office and she stopped me there. "Don't ever call it Middle office in an Interview" she said, "People who work in MO will be offended if they heard you call it MO" She said I should refer to it as the Broader aspects of the Bank and then mention the specific position such as Operations/Regulatory.



2. She said my CV fits the role of an (Middle Office) position, she also changed it up and added some goodies (Key words and stuff) Which was nice of her.


3. Asked me to talk about recent publications I've read, I started talking about M&A deals and she stopped me; she said She doesn't think I would fit in the (MO) role because apparently I have no passion there.. she suggests I chase my passion which is in M&A by doing a Masters in a Finance related course.



4. I told her I already planned on doing a masters, she also told me that when it comes to FO roles, BB's only take from Havard, Oxford, Cambridge, LSE, Imperial.. Im sure she mentioned a couple more but I can't remember now. But she said the Masters degree has to be at one of these target schools or else I'll be wasting my time trying to get into FO- She said once you get into the masters start applying for grad schemes and Internships.. you will get easier Interviews.. It's up to you and your confidence to land the role she said. So the whole 'Brand name myth' is real, BB's are more likely to pick you for an FO role if you have any of the above names on your CV


5. Told her about my BBD Alevels, she laughed.. she said she knows managing partners who don't even have a degree.. Banks do not really care about Alevels, they just use it to sort the thousands of applications they receive. Once you do your Msc at a Target No one will care about your Alevels, and if they bring it up its because they want to know how you went from under performing on Alevels to getting an Msc at a top school.



6. I need to work on my Story on why I want to go into IBD.


7. Do not burn bridges in banking. never burn bridges she said whilst staring through me like she was remembering something.


8. Do something remotely finance related between now and when you start your MSc, the ball starts rolling once you're in the Target school.


That's about it, sorry it's late at night and I'm quite sleepy so I may have forgotten some things.. Oh yeah, she also said - Never show or tell your weakness in IBD, it's a dog eat dog world there and they will walk over you if you show any weakness. . She also said keep working on your Vba skills, valuation skills e.t.c whilst you're at home. Will look good if you walked into an Interview and you know your theory well.. All in all she said if you're not in a target school, its easier to get into (MO) than FO. I'll start applying to MO roles from now on.


Oh yeah I put (MO) in brackets because although she was referring to middle office roles, she actually wasn't calling it MO, I can't remember the exact term she used.

Hope this helps someone somewhere.. the meeting lasted circa 35mins. Oh yeah she mentioned a friend of hers who trains graduates for 2years in derivatives for example and then he lends the graduates to the Banks for a fee. Don't know if anyone has heard of people like that??

She said she will send him my CV but he may not be willing to take me because he needs someone to stay committed for 2 years and I plan on doing my masters next year; I told her I was willing to push my masters back to get on this guy's programme but she told me to go for the Msc as its more valuable to me and I should not compromise my plans.
Reply 1
Interesting. The 'target' universities (and presumably a few other American universities and Warwick were mentioned) comes as no surprise in this particular field because there is a wide variance in the syllabi of MSc Finance from various universities. However, people should not interpret this as a wider rule; in the field of law for example, the degrees are much more homogenous.

I'm not sure why 'Middle Office' is considered an offensive term, although I suspect it's because half of us consider ourselves in 'back office' roles and the other half wish they were in front office roles! That said, I agree I think of myself as 'Regulatory Compliance' rather than 'Mr. Back Office!'

Overall, I think you've got some great advice and now you know where you're headed. Good luck.
Reply 2
Original post by AW1983
Interesting. The 'target' universities (and presumably a few other American universities and Warwick were mentioned) comes as no surprise in this particular field because there is a wide variance in the syllabi of MSc Finance from various universities. However, people should not interpret this as a wider rule; in the field of law for example, the degrees are much more homogenous.

I'm not sure why 'Middle Office' is considered an offensive term, although I suspect it's because half of us consider ourselves in 'back office' roles and the other half wish they were in front office roles! That said, I agree I think of myself as 'Regulatory Compliance' rather than 'Mr. Back Office!'

Overall, I think you've got some great advice and now you know where you're headed. Good luck.


Thanks, I also did not understand why she found it offensive - All my life I've called it MO so it was quite awkward as I kept saying MO and then correcting myself immediately.

However I was surprised by the advice she gave on Alevels - I asked her if I did my Msc wouldn't I still get filtered by Alevels and all she said was dont worry about that.
Reply 3
I hope she's right. My only concern is that times have changed since she started (no one but the Magic Circle and a few barrister's chambers ever used to care about your A-Levels if you had a degree before 2007). However, it still makes sense to me that someone with a First and an MSc from a target university could probably get away with a D at secondary level, especially as A-Level grades have much more to do with where you went to school and the quality of teaching you got than the amount of work you put in.
Reply 4
Original post by AW1983
However, people should not interpret this as a wider rule; in the field of law for example, the degrees are much more homogenous.

Not at the top firms it isnt.

A study carried out by Legal Week found 38% of magic circle recruits were Oxbridge graduates.

In other City firms, a fifth of law graduates studied at either of the universities, while at regional firms, the figure was just 6%.

The survey showed almost half (48%) of law graduates recruited to Slaughter and May studied at Oxbridge, and at Freshfields Bruckhaus Deringer it was 44%.

http://www.graduate-jobs.com/news/10624/oxbridge-dominates-magic-circle
(edited 9 years ago)
Reply 5
Original post by flygirl64
Thanks, I also did not understand why she found it offensive - All my life I've called it MO so it was quite awkward as I kept saying MO and then correcting myself immediately.

However I was surprised by the advice she gave on Alevels - I asked her if I did my Msc wouldn't I still get filtered by Alevels and all she said was dont worry about that.

If you are applying for the standard undergrad-orientated grad schemes through an online form, there may be a minimum UCAS points requirement. Saying that "many senior bankers dont have degrees" is silly, the industry was a very different place 20 years ago when they started out and recruitment was more driven by personal networks (especially in trading). Its a different world now, grad scheme recruitment is much more formalised and credential focused, with everything going through HR. If you could get your CV onto an actual banker's desk then they wouldnt care about your A-levels, but getting it there can be difficult if you are applying for entry-level positions.


Hope this helps someone somewhere.. the meeting lasted circa 35mins. Oh yeah she mentioned a friend of hers who trains graduates for 2years in derivatives for example and then he lends the graduates to the Banks for a fee. Don't know if anyone has heard of people like that??
I'd be wary about this, but its worth asking for more details. The main thing you want to find out is whether it pays a salary; if you have to pay for the training, or if its some crappy prop shop where you dont get a salary and only get commission based on your profits, it could be a scam.

You could also ask for the names of some people who he has 'trained' and which banks they placed in. Get their email addresses too and contact them. If he refuses to give you this then its a pretty big red flag.
(edited 9 years ago)
Reply 6
Original post by poohat
Not at the top firms it isnt.


I'm assuming you're aware that this is because those are the universities that people who have the requisite A-Levels tend to go to?
Reply 7
Original post by AW1983
I'm assuming you're aware that this is because those are the universities that people who have the requisite A-Levels tend to go to?

No, that isnt true at all. Noone actually cares about A level performance in itself, UCAS points are essentially just used as an automatic screening device for university prestige.
(edited 9 years ago)
Reply 8
Original post by poohat
No, that isnt true at all. Noone actually cares about A level performance in itself, UCAS points are essentially just used as an automatic screening device for university prestige.


So, the fact the universities you mentioned and most law firms ask for similar A-Level grades is just a coincidence and law firms only really ask for them for fun?
Reply 9
Abit late OP but did you apply to PwC CorpFin? they lower the UCAS requirements if you got a strong degree result i.e strong first to something like 240-260 UCAS points. Big 4 Corp Fin is definitely better than MO in my opinion.
Reply 10
Original post by flygirl64
Thanks, I also did not understand why she found it offensive - All my life I've called it MO so it was quite awkward as I kept saying MO and then correcting myself immediately.


I do see her point - I work in IT in a bank and, although the term 'front office' is used a lot, people don't tend to refer to 'middle office' and 'back office' so much. The actual names of departments get used instead.
Reply 11
Original post by AW1983
I hope she's right. My only concern is that times have changed since she started (no one but the Magic Circle and a few barrister's chambers ever used to care about your A-Levels if you had a degree before 2007). However, it still makes sense to me that someone with a First and an MSc from a target university could probably get away with a D at secondary level, especially as A-Level grades have much more to do with where you went to school and the quality of teaching you got than the amount of work you put in.



Lets hope so, I would be really cross if I two years from now I still get declined based on Alevels even after getting an MSc from a Target.

Btw do you think I can get into a Target? What if they start asking for Alevels?

Yes you're right, the school I went to was ranked 20th in the borough league table :smile: and It was shut down shortly after I left. However its no excuse as I was also a troubled kid back then..
Reply 12
Original post by poohat
If you are applying for the standard undergrad-orientated grad schemes through an online form, there may be a minimum UCAS points requirement. Saying that "many senior bankers dont have degrees" is silly, the industry was a very different place 20 years ago when they started out and recruitment was more driven by personal networks (especially in trading). Its a different world now, grad scheme recruitment is much more formalised and credential focused, with everything going through HR. If you could get your CV onto an actual banker's desk then they wouldnt care about your A-levels, but getting it there can be difficult if you are applying for entry-level positions.

I'd be wary about this, but its worth asking for more details. The main thing you want to find out is whether it pays a salary; if you have to pay for the training, or if its some crappy prop shop where you dont get a salary and only get commission based on your profits, it could be a scam.

You could also ask for the names of some people who he has 'trained' and which banks they placed in. Get their email addresses too and contact them. If he refuses to give you this then its a pretty big red flag.



Hmm, well then what can a graduate like me with a first and a possible MSc next year at a Target do? Will I get automatically filtered out using online forms??

From what you're saying, sounds like Ill have to depend on the networking workshops at my Masters programme.
Reply 13
Original post by poohat

I'd be wary about this, but its worth asking for more details. The main thing you want to find out is whether it pays a salary; if you have to pay for the training, or if its some crappy prop shop where you dont get a salary and only get commission based on your profits, it could be a scam.

You could also ask for the names of some people who he has 'trained' and which banks they placed in. Get their email addresses too and contact them. If he refuses to give you this then its a pretty big red flag.


She didn't give me his details, but if he gets in touch with me i'll carry out due diligence - However I am hard-pressed to believe that a VP from a Bulge Bracket will liaise with such dodgy characters lol
Reply 14
Original post by DQ1995i
Abit late OP but did you apply to PwC CorpFin? they lower the UCAS requirements if you got a strong degree result i.e strong first to something like 240-260 UCAS points. Big 4 Corp Fin is definitely better than MO in my opinion.



Applied to PWC - Failed their Logical and their personality questionaire..

Did it again, failed logical and personality.. It should be just numerical IMHO.. I don't see how a Logical test will tell them If I can do my Job..

Oh well..
Reply 15
Original post by ttoby
I do see her point - I work in IT in a bank and, although the term 'front office' is used a lot, people don't tend to refer to 'middle office' and 'back office' so much. The actual names of departments get used instead.



True - I'll learn from that.

Thanks

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