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Female doctors who work part-time are placing a huge burden on the NHS
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-health/9950248/Part-time-women-doctors-are-creating-a-timebomb.html
The problem is starting to affect both hospitals and primary care. Some 38 per cent of female consultants work part-time compared to five per cent of the men. Two thirds of GPs are women, with a large proportion opting for less than full time work. As medicine becomes a female-majority profession, this is only going to get worse.
Being a doctor is the most important job there is. It is not a part time job. Continuity with patients over the years, knowing them on an individual basis , keeping in touch with medical progress, acquiring work experience faster...all of these are almost impossible to achieve as a part timer who also has to raise kids on top of it all. On top of this , quite a few female doctors are leaving the profession altogether since they are married to high income men so money isn't an issue.
There is also another problem : training a doctor not only takes quite a few more years than almost any other profession but it also costs £250.000 of tax payers money. So you are wasting huge amounts of time and resources on a doctor who is much more likely to work less or abandon work altogether. That's an absolute waste.
In conclusion : this needs to stop. It will put even more strain on an already overstretched NHS , it will lead to more people being misdiagnosed, diagnosed too late(since they can't get an appointment in time because their doctor is at home playing mum) and inevitably, more deaths. On top of that, billions of £ will be wasted in the process : who in their right mind would spend a quarter of a million to train a part timer? Now, what can be done? I can think of two things : female doctors don't have kids or they marry a lesser man who will work part time or stay at home. Smash hypergamy! However, I'm not holding my breath quite yet:
Townsend (1989) surveyed medical students regarding their perception of how the availability of marriage partners changed as their educational careers advanced. Eighty-five percent of the women indicated that "As my status increases, my pool of acceptable partners decreases" (p. 246). In contrast, 90% of men felt that "As my status increases, my pool of acceptable partners increases" (p. 246)
The problem is starting to affect both hospitals and primary care. Some 38 per cent of female consultants work part-time compared to five per cent of the men. Two thirds of GPs are women, with a large proportion opting for less than full time work. As medicine becomes a female-majority profession, this is only going to get worse.
Being a doctor is the most important job there is. It is not a part time job. Continuity with patients over the years, knowing them on an individual basis , keeping in touch with medical progress, acquiring work experience faster...all of these are almost impossible to achieve as a part timer who also has to raise kids on top of it all. On top of this , quite a few female doctors are leaving the profession altogether since they are married to high income men so money isn't an issue.
There is also another problem : training a doctor not only takes quite a few more years than almost any other profession but it also costs £250.000 of tax payers money. So you are wasting huge amounts of time and resources on a doctor who is much more likely to work less or abandon work altogether. That's an absolute waste.
In conclusion : this needs to stop. It will put even more strain on an already overstretched NHS , it will lead to more people being misdiagnosed, diagnosed too late(since they can't get an appointment in time because their doctor is at home playing mum) and inevitably, more deaths. On top of that, billions of £ will be wasted in the process : who in their right mind would spend a quarter of a million to train a part timer? Now, what can be done? I can think of two things : female doctors don't have kids or they marry a lesser man who will work part time or stay at home. Smash hypergamy! However, I'm not holding my breath quite yet:
Townsend (1989) surveyed medical students regarding their perception of how the availability of marriage partners changed as their educational careers advanced. Eighty-five percent of the women indicated that "As my status increases, my pool of acceptable partners decreases" (p. 246). In contrast, 90% of men felt that "As my status increases, my pool of acceptable partners increases" (p. 246)
(edited 9 years ago)
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I hope the part time women are paid the same as the full time men because if they aren't it's yet more evidence of the pay gap.
Where I work they are so progressive they brought a woman back 3 days a week on THE SAME SALARY (after a years maternity leave) as she was on full time before, after she came back...
Thank god, because otherwise there would be a pay gap.
Where I work they are so progressive they brought a woman back 3 days a week on THE SAME SALARY (after a years maternity leave) as she was on full time before, after she came back...
Thank god, because otherwise there would be a pay gap.
Original post by obidobi
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-health/9950248/Part-time-women-doctors-are-creating-a-timebomb.html
Being a doctor is the most important job there is. It is not a part time job. Continuity with patients over the years, knowing them on an individual basis , keeping in touch with medical progress, acquiring work experience faster...all of these are almost impossible to achieve as a part timer who also has to raise kids on top of it all. On top of this , quite a few female doctors are leaving the profession altogether since they are married to high income men so money isn't an issue.
There is also another problem : training a doctor not only takes quite a few more years than almost any other profession but it also costs £250.000 of tax payers money. So you are wasting huge amounts of time and resources on a doctor who is much more likely to work less or abandon work altogether. That's an absolute waste.
In conclusion : this needs to stop. It will put even more strain on an already overstretched NHS , it will lead to more people being misdiagnosed, diagnosed too late(since they can't get an appointment in time because their doctor is at home playing mum) and inevitably, more deaths. On top of that, billions of £ will be wasted in the process : who in their right mind would spend a quarter of a million to train a part timer? Now, what can be done? I can think of two things : female doctors don't have kids or they marry a lesser man who will work part time or stay at home. Smash hypergamy! However, I'm not holding my breath quite yet:
Being a doctor is the most important job there is. It is not a part time job. Continuity with patients over the years, knowing them on an individual basis , keeping in touch with medical progress, acquiring work experience faster...all of these are almost impossible to achieve as a part timer who also has to raise kids on top of it all. On top of this , quite a few female doctors are leaving the profession altogether since they are married to high income men so money isn't an issue.
There is also another problem : training a doctor not only takes quite a few more years than almost any other profession but it also costs £250.000 of tax payers money. So you are wasting huge amounts of time and resources on a doctor who is much more likely to work less or abandon work altogether. That's an absolute waste.
In conclusion : this needs to stop. It will put even more strain on an already overstretched NHS , it will lead to more people being misdiagnosed, diagnosed too late(since they can't get an appointment in time because their doctor is at home playing mum) and inevitably, more deaths. On top of that, billions of £ will be wasted in the process : who in their right mind would spend a quarter of a million to train a part timer? Now, what can be done? I can think of two things : female doctors don't have kids or they marry a lesser man who will work part time or stay at home. Smash hypergamy! However, I'm not holding my breath quite yet:
Good grief what rock did you crawl out from.
If the NHS didn't have part time female doctors it would collapse. GP surgeries are staffed by thousands if part-time doctors as are wards, departments etc - plugging the gap left by the full time ones.
I work with numerous consultants - male - who do their NHS job and then go off and do their private jobs. They are not working full time for the NHS - should they go too.
The burden on the NHS is actually something totally different
- massive obesity crisis leading to increase in diabetics
- massive birth rate
- paperwork
- fear of being sued
- the dementia crisis
- people living longer
etc - so leave the poor female doctor who is juggling kids, work and is probably doing a better job
There is another problem with the increasing number of female medical students:
A separate problem is that if the majority of medical graduates are women, then specialisms that are not traditionally family friendly due to the anti-social hours and on call requirements – areas such acute medicine, neurosurgery, orthopaedics, paediatric surgery and A&E – will be hard to fill. There are already recruitment problems in some hospitals and a dangerous shortage of specialists.
Fewer than 10% of UK surgeons are women. Women, while being the majority of medical students and doctors, avoid going into long hours, highly stressful specialities (not just in medicine but in every field, this is why almost all high stress/high pay/high risk/highly dangerous jobs whether it's investment banking or oil drilling, are occupied by men).
A separate problem is that if the majority of medical graduates are women, then specialisms that are not traditionally family friendly due to the anti-social hours and on call requirements – areas such acute medicine, neurosurgery, orthopaedics, paediatric surgery and A&E – will be hard to fill. There are already recruitment problems in some hospitals and a dangerous shortage of specialists.
Fewer than 10% of UK surgeons are women. Women, while being the majority of medical students and doctors, avoid going into long hours, highly stressful specialities (not just in medicine but in every field, this is why almost all high stress/high pay/high risk/highly dangerous jobs whether it's investment banking or oil drilling, are occupied by men).
Original post by squeakysquirrel
Good grief what rock did you crawl out from.
If the NHS didn't have part time female doctors it would collapse. GP surgeries are staffed by thousands if part-time doctors as are wards, departments etc - plugging the gap left by the full time ones.
I work with numerous consultants - male - who do their NHS job and then go off and do their private jobs. They are not working full time for the NHS - should they go too.
The burden on the NHS is actually something totally different
- massive obesity crisis leading to increase in diabetics
- massive birth rate
- paperwork
- fear of being sued
- the dementia crisis
- people living longer
etc - so leave the poor female doctor who is juggling kids, work and is probably doing a better job
If the NHS didn't have part time female doctors it would collapse. GP surgeries are staffed by thousands if part-time doctors as are wards, departments etc - plugging the gap left by the full time ones.
I work with numerous consultants - male - who do their NHS job and then go off and do their private jobs. They are not working full time for the NHS - should they go too.
The burden on the NHS is actually something totally different
- massive obesity crisis leading to increase in diabetics
- massive birth rate
- paperwork
- fear of being sued
- the dementia crisis
- people living longer
etc - so leave the poor female doctor who is juggling kids, work and is probably doing a better job
There's a dementia crisis?
Original post by squeakysquirrel
Good grief what rock did you crawl out from.
If the NHS didn't have part time female doctors it would collapse. GP surgeries are staffed by thousands if part-time doctors as are wards, departments etc - plugging the gap left by the full time ones.
I work with numerous consultants - male - who do their NHS job and then go off and do their private jobs. They are not working full time for the NHS - should they go too.
The burden on the NHS is actually something totally different
- massive obesity crisis leading to increase in diabetics
- massive birth rate
- paperwork
- fear of being sued
- the dementia crisis
- people living longer
etc - so leave the poor female doctor who is juggling kids, work and is probably doing a better job
If the NHS didn't have part time female doctors it would collapse. GP surgeries are staffed by thousands if part-time doctors as are wards, departments etc - plugging the gap left by the full time ones.
I work with numerous consultants - male - who do their NHS job and then go off and do their private jobs. They are not working full time for the NHS - should they go too.
The burden on the NHS is actually something totally different
- massive obesity crisis leading to increase in diabetics
- massive birth rate
- paperwork
- fear of being sued
- the dementia crisis
- people living longer
etc - so leave the poor female doctor who is juggling kids, work and is probably doing a better job
If the NHS is scared of being sued it is run by idiots. The NHS is massively protected in courts and has incredibly low liability premiums for the risk associated with it. I suspect in fact the NHS' in house team aren't remotely scared of it and understand the situation, they just fail to explain the position to clinical staff, creating a perceived risk.
OP: No one forces the NHS to employ them.
Original post by obidobi
There is another problem with the increasing number of female medical students:
Fewer than 10% of UK surgeons are women. Women, while being the majority of medical students and doctors, avoid going into long hours, highly stressful specialities (not just in medicine but in every field, this is why almost all high stress/high pay/high risk/highly dangerous jobs whether it's investment banking or oil drilling, are occupied by men).
Fewer than 10% of UK surgeons are women. Women, while being the majority of medical students and doctors, avoid going into long hours, highly stressful specialities (not just in medicine but in every field, this is why almost all high stress/high pay/high risk/highly dangerous jobs whether it's investment banking or oil drilling, are occupied by men).
Let me guess your thoughts OP...because women are biologically predisposed to be too feminine and delicate wallflowers who can't handle a job for real, masculine men. The safest and most efficient place for a woman is in the kitchen married to a masculine male doctor who can work full time and do the job she just cannot handle poor thing. Sorry I meant clever hypergamous bitch.
or she'll go look all progressive and **** by marrying a BP beta provider to cook and clean for her while she pegs a true alpha on the side because lol at female doctor loving or respecting a feminine whipped beta male with low SMV/social proof, lol at female marrying for love full stop.
:rolleyes everytime with you boys. 6/10 needs more leading quotations, references to hamstering, the cock carousel and hitting the wall and we'll.make a Redpiller out of you in no time
dunno why you bother dressing up this sexist crap Obidobi
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by Le Nombre
If the NHS is scared of being sued it is run by idiots. The NHS is massively protected in courts and has incredibly low liability premiums for the risk associated with it. I suspect in fact the NHS' in house team aren't remotely scared of it and understand the situation, they just fail to explain the position to clinical staff, creating a perceived risk.
OP: No one forces the NHS to employ them.
OP: No one forces the NHS to employ them.
The number of medical students is capped in the UK. They have to hire their doctors from somewhere so they have no choice. There is already a high number of foreign doctors working in the NHS, even though many of them are bellow british standards. The UK needs more and more doctors every year because of the ageing population yet we are training more and more stay at home/part time future mothers. Even if the cap were to be increased or lifted, you still have the issue of 250k of public money spent on a part timer/''full time mum'' and the effectiveness of a doctor who is not 100% dedicated to a job where they are responsible for people's lives.
On top of that, even with plenty of male candidates around, what could the NHS do? We don't want to hire female doctors because they are 10 times more likely to quit or work just a few days a week? It would be illegal. I guess, along with increasing the cap, you could make people pay for their education or be held accountable if they decide to ''take it easy'' later in life if a huge amount of public resources was used to fund them.
Original post by Riku
Let me guess your thoughts OP...because women are biologically predisposed to be too feminine and delicate wallflowers who can't handle a job for real, masculine men. The safest and most efficient place for a woman is in the kitchen married to a masculine male doctor who can work full time and do the job she just cannot handle poor thing. Sorry I meant clever hypergamous bitch.
or she'll go look all progressive and **** by marrying a BP beta provider to cook and clean for her while she pegs a true alpha on the side because lol at female doctor loving or respecting a feminine whipped beta male with low SMV/social proof, lol at female marrying for love full stop.
:rolleyes everytime with you boys. 6/10 needs more leading quotations, references to hamstering, the cock carousel and hitting the wall and we'll.make a Redpiller out of you in no time
dunno why you bother dressing up this sexist crap Obidobi
or she'll go look all progressive and **** by marrying a BP beta provider to cook and clean for her while she pegs a true alpha on the side because lol at female doctor loving or respecting a feminine whipped beta male with low SMV/social proof, lol at female marrying for love full stop.
:rolleyes everytime with you boys. 6/10 needs more leading quotations, references to hamstering, the cock carousel and hitting the wall and we'll.make a Redpiller out of you in no time
dunno why you bother dressing up this sexist crap Obidobi
Dear me, just because he suggests that women are predisposed to different types of career doesn't mean that he is a rabid sexist an a crusade to degrade women.
Only 10% of female doctors, despite being a majority of Doctors, go into these particular careers. Is it really so ridiculous to suggest that something about being female makes one likely to be less suited for such a job?
No, no it isn't.
We have to employ tens of thousands of NHS staff from other countries with inferior training/qualifications (and some can barely speak english FFS) because most british female doctors waste enormous public resources and time then decide they want to play mummy.
In my opinion medicine is one of those careers where motherhood should come last
Posted from TSR Mobile
Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by obidobi
There is another problem with the increasing number of female medical students:
Fewer than 10% of UK surgeons are women. Women, while being the majority of medical students and doctors, avoid going into long hours, highly stressful specialities (not just in medicine but in every field, this is why almost all high stress/high pay/high risk/highly dangerous jobs whether it's investment banking or oil drilling, are occupied by men).
Fewer than 10% of UK surgeons are women. Women, while being the majority of medical students and doctors, avoid going into long hours, highly stressful specialities (not just in medicine but in every field, this is why almost all high stress/high pay/high risk/highly dangerous jobs whether it's investment banking or oil drilling, are occupied by men).
Surgery is still very competitive and sought after, it's not like the posts are going unfilled so it's a moot point really.
Original post by tomfailinghelp
Dear me, just because he suggests that women are predisposed to different types of career doesn't mean that he is a rabid sexist an a crusade to degrade women.
Only 10% of female doctors, despite being a majority of Doctors, go into these particular careers. Is it really so ridiculous to suggest that something about being female makes one likely to be less suited for such a job?
No, no it isn't.
Only 10% of female doctors, despite being a majority of Doctors, go into these particular careers. Is it really so ridiculous to suggest that something about being female makes one likely to be less suited for such a job?
No, no it isn't.
You are right about the biological predispositions but that's not even the point here. Some women can have kids and be surgeons and work full time, my mum's friends is one of them . A woman who knows she wants to be a mum and quit or work less after becoming one should not be allowed to treat the pubic as her personal ATM or endanger their health/life. Why are the top doctors and innovators in medicine almost always men despite women being over 50% these days? Because they are 100% dedicated to their careers and don't **** around with ''having it all'.
To be honest, I see your point. It would be ridiculously unfair to discriminate against an entire gender because of some women's choices though, plenty are actually pretty career minded. I'd say what we could have is, say, a minimum amount of work hours you have to do for the NHS and if you decide not to, you pay back the taxpayers' money that funded your education. I don't want to spend my money funding a degree for someone who ends up staying at home for 10 years and them working 1 day a week - if much rather it go to someone who focuses on their career and works 5 days a week, 9-5 (or usually longer).
Another point is that these part time mums usually tend to be less likely to go the extra mile. Someone who isn't thinking about getting home to their kids will stay the extra hour at work to finish off seeing patients, the one thinking of her kid's ballet lessons won't. This bit is from personal experience but makes logical sense.
Another point is that these part time mums usually tend to be less likely to go the extra mile. Someone who isn't thinking about getting home to their kids will stay the extra hour at work to finish off seeing patients, the one thinking of her kid's ballet lessons won't. This bit is from personal experience but makes logical sense.
Original post by joker12345
Surgery is still very competitive and sought after, it's not like the posts are going unfilled so it's a moot point really.
But it's not just surgery, it's a lot of other specialties mentioned in the quote. The more risky, stressful, competitive a career is the more it will be avoided by women. Almost all the specialists I saw in the UK were men, especially in private hospitals. Completely different from other more ''traditional'' countries where women aren't told they should take it easy in life because they'll find a rich husband or at least the state will support them. Plenty of women are specialists or work in the private sectors there, rich men being few and far between and welfare almost inexistent. Women in the West have become way too comfy.
It's the same reasons there are so few female pilots, top professional chefs or investment bankers.
Original post by tomfailinghelp
Dear me, just because he suggests that women are predisposed to different types of career doesn't mean that he is a rabid sexist an a crusade to degrade women.
Only 10% of female doctors, despite being a majority of Doctors, go into these particular careers. Is it really so ridiculous to suggest that something about being female makes one likely to be less suited for such a job?
No, no it isn't.
Only 10% of female doctors, despite being a majority of Doctors, go into these particular careers. Is it really so ridiculous to suggest that something about being female makes one likely to be less suited for such a job?
No, no it isn't.
Fair enough, and that's reasonable, however look at OP's thread history and you will see a pattern. Note 'marry a lesser man-smash hypergamy!'
Original post by tomfailinghelp
Dear me, just because he suggests that women are predisposed to different types of career doesn't mean that he is a rabid sexist an a crusade to degrade women.
Only 10% of female doctors, despite being a majority of Doctors, go into these particular careers. Is it really so ridiculous to suggest that something about being female makes one likely to be less suited for such a job?
No, no it isn't.
Only 10% of female doctors, despite being a majority of Doctors, go into these particular careers. Is it really so ridiculous to suggest that something about being female makes one likely to be less suited for such a job?
No, no it isn't.
Fair enough, and that's reasonable, however look at OP's thread history and you will see a pattern. Note 'marry a lesser man-smash hypergamy!'
Original post by obidobi
But it's not just surgery, it's a lot of other specialties mentioned in the quote. The more risky, stressful, competitive a career is the more it will be avoided by women. Almost all the specialists I saw in the UK were men, especially in private hospitals. Completely different from other more ''traditional'' countries where women aren't told they should take it easy in life because they'll find a rich husband or at least the state will support them. Plenty of women are specialists or work in the private sectors there, rich men being few and far between and welfare almost inexistent. Women in the West have become way too comfy.
It's the same reasons there are so few female pilots, top professional chefs or investment bankers.
It's the same reasons there are so few female pilots, top professional chefs or investment bankers.
Im quite interested to know what 'traditions' you're referring to...and what countries they are in.
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