The Student Room Group

Tom and Jerry: Should old cartoons carry racism warnings?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-29427843

"Tom and Jerry: The Complete Second Volume is accompanied by the caution: "Tom and Jerry shorts may depict some ethnic and racial prejudices that were once commonplace in American society. Such depictions were wrong then and are wrong today."

This is one that is causing controversy. My avatar is from Tom and Jerry so I'm qualified to give my 2 cents :biggrin:

I don't like Amazon's disclaimer. Back then this sort of racism was actually acceptable in the media and was only called out and deemed unacceptable later. What about depictions of women? I don't see any warnings about that. Tom and Jerry when female characters were included was pretty sexist. Depicting women as trophies, shallow, prizes to be won, etc.

I am on the fence with this. I am not however not down with censorship. William Hanna and Joseph Barbera are no longer with us. Would it be right to censor the works of men who are not alive to have their say? In my opinion we should have the works shown as they were intended. Just like the works of Osamu Tezuka, though they do carry warnings which warn of depictions that some people may find racist and they make me think 'if these are offending people then we can't ignore their feelings' , though we do need to discuss 'disturbing art'

One problem is trying to clean up shows for an audience they were never intended for. I can remember the classic Jetsons outro on Cartoon Network which sees George Jetson given a smoking pipe before having to take Astro on a walk. That has been totally removed due to 'promoting smoking'. The Jetsons was a family show and was never intended just for children.


Posted from TSR Mobile
(edited 9 years ago)

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It's a cartoon. And tbh, really funny. A lot of people need a good old ceremonies untwisting of the knickers.
PC gone mad
Reply 3
Oh dear god
Reply 4
Original post by iEatMuFFiNS
PC gone mad


I wouldn't say so. I don't agree with it, but i can see why people would be upset. The golden era of cartoons was very unfair to black people, a lot of **** was going down in the years these cartoons were made, black people still aren't represented very well on TV and it is understandable why some people might be offended if a mainstream TV network (e.g. Cartoon Network) shown uncensored episodes as they are very insensitive.

The main problem to me is trying to market old cartoons as children's TV. Looney Tunes, Tom and Jerry, The Flintstones, The Jetsons, etc were never meant for children. They were often shown to adultsin cinemas.

Posted from TSR Mobile
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by datpiff
I wouldn't say so. I don't agree with it, but i can see why people would be upset. The golden era of cartoons was very unfair to black people, a lot of **** was going down in the years these cartoons were made, black people still aren't represented very well on TV and it is understandable why some people might be offended if a mainstream TV network (e.g. Cartoon Network) shown uncensored episodes as they are very insensitive.

The main problem to me is trying to market old cartoons as children's TV. Looney Tunes, Tom and Jerry, The Flintstones, The Jetsons, etc were never meant for children. They were often shown to adultsin cinemas.

Posted from TSR Mobile

It's TV, it's a cartoon, not aimed at anyone - if you get offended then you're a whiny moron with nothing better to think about than how offended you are about something irreverent...
(edited 9 years ago)
Some people are unbelievably pathetic.
Reply 7
Original post by iEatMuFFiNS
It's TV, it's a cartoon, not aimed at anyone - if you get offended then you're a whiny moron with nothing better to think about than how offended you are about something irreverent...


Ok Mr.Angry was that aimed specifically at me? I was simply looking at things from the other side. I was neither agreeing nor disagreeing. I don't resort to your tactics. Your comment shows more that we do need discussion and by attempting to silence people by labelling them PC morons is not good. We could be having great discussion here. Instead when we hear someone calling a piece of media out on something we have to go on the warpath.



Cartoons are not just cartoons. Watch Evangelion or Animal Farm and say "it's just a cartoon". Animation is interesting.

Original post by Huskaris
Some people are unbelievably pathetic.


Again was that aimed at me?



Posted from TSR Mobile
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by datpiff
Ok Mr.Angry was that aimed specifically at me? I was simply looking at things from the other side. I don't resort to your tactics. Your comment shows more that we do need discussion and by attempting to silence people by labelling them PC morons is not good. We could be having great discussion here.

Cartoons are not just cartoons. Watch Evangelion or Animal Farm and say "it's just a cartoon". Animation is interesting.



Again was that aimed at me?



Posted from TSR Mobile


No not at all, it is aimed at anyone that thinks Tom and Jerry is racist.
Reply 9
Original post by Huskaris
No not at all, it is aimed at anyone that thinks Tom and Jerry is racist.


Tom and Jerry doesn't offend me, but personally makes me feel uncomfortable when I watch it today to be honest. Its different from adult comedies today because with shows like Family Guy, South Park and the Boondocks you are laughing at them (most of the time) and not with them and the most of the characters on their cartoons (like Cartman) are clearly incredibly ignorant. The comedy was meant to be satirical. Watching Tom and Jerry is like listening to your grandad tell jokes: he may have amazingly timeless funny ones, but a few will be unacceptable by today's standards, but you just have to have in your mind that he's from another time.

A better question would be: "were William Hanna and Joseph Barbera racist?" I wouldn't be able to answer it though cos they aren't with us today.

Posted from TSR Mobile
(edited 9 years ago)
Reply 10
Original post by datpiff
I wouldn't say so. I don't agree with it, but i can see why people would be upset. The golden era of cartoons was very unfair to black people, a lot of **** was going down in the years these cartoons were made, black people still aren't represented very well on TV and it is understandable why some people might be offended if a mainstream TV network (e.g. Cartoon Network) shown uncensored episodes as they are very insensitive.

The main problem to me is trying to market old cartoons as children's TV. Looney Tunes, Tom and Jerry, The Flintstones, The Jetsons, etc were never meant for children. They were often shown to adultsin cinemas.

Posted from TSR Mobile


Black people are exceptionally well represented on TV - in many cases completely over-represented and in an unusually positive manner.
Reply 11
Original post by Clip
Black people are exceptionally well represented on TV - in many cases completely over-represented and in an unusually positive manner.


But are black people making this material? I doubt it. Only a few cartoons I can think of have had black people making relatively big decisions (The Boondocks Season 1). How do black people feel about how they are represented on TV? That is more important to me, Aren't the views of this group about how they are represented important? What right do white people have to dictate to us how we should feel about how we are represented on TV?

As a black man I don't feel we are represented good enough on TV compared to white folk.


Posted from TSR Mobile
(edited 9 years ago)
Reply 12
Original post by datpiff
But are black people making this material? How do black people feel about how they are represented on TV? Aren't the views of this group about how they are represented important? What right do white people have to dictate to us how we should feel about how we are represented on TV?

As a black man I don't feel we are represented good enough on TV compared to white folk.


Posted from TSR Mobile


Can't have everything. Black people are just not significant enough to warrant their own TV executives in charge of production.

To watch the BBC or ITV, one would easily assume that the population of Britain was 20% good-looking, intelligent, educated black people. It's not. It's less than 5%. Given this, is it fair to demand that such a small group has control over its own media in this way?

Nobody is seriously suggesting that there should be Chinese TV execs overseeing Chinese TV programmes lest they be patronising.

Look at the way black people are portrayed in drama and advertising - almost always talented and honest. Petty criminals are always shown to be white men - and almost never BME.
Reply 13
Original post by Clip
Can't have everything. Black people are just not significant enough to warrant their own TV executives in charge of production.


I totally disagree. I assume your view is from a white perspective.

We aren't allowed to produce material based off our own merits? Well you might as well say so seeing as media is run by white, privately educated men with links to the old boy network. Just look at the Beeb.

Your view reeks of the 'white people know what's best for everyone' perspective. Diversity is brilliant for TV from a business and creative perspective. Just look at where not being diverse led us. Diverse minds and not making everyone feel welcome is where TV went wrong in the first place. Now the whole medium as it exists at the moment is screwed thanks to them shooting themselves in the foot and the internet. This generation are bored of it. The existence of more people in the medium is nothing but a positive thing, especially since the fate of the medium is not decided by you and me and your mums mum and your dad's uncle, but in a boardroom full of white middle class old men; the 1%. Far far away from real life.


Posted from TSR Mobile
(edited 9 years ago)
Ridiculous, but it's the age we live in. Same for that old Tintin adventure where he went to Congo. Some un-PC drawings in there but it doesn't do any harm now. People should just deal with it. No warnings are necessary.
(edited 9 years ago)
Reply 15
When I was a kid, I didn't even know what racial stereotypes or smoking was. I was much too engrossed in Tom and Jerry's antics to even care if the housemaid was acting like a "typical black woman", or that someone happened to be damaging their lungs as it was irrelevant to the storyline. Kids are too innocent to know the context behind the main storyline so why introduce a disclaimer? You'll make kids notice the racial stereotyping even more.
Reply 16
Original post by Ndella
When I was a kid, I didn't even know what racial stereotypes or smoking was. I was much too engrossed in Tom and Jerry's antics to even care if the housemaid was acting like a "typical black woman", or that someone happened to be damaging their lungs as it was irrelevant to the storyline. Kids are too innocent to know the context behind the main storyline so why introduce a disclaimer? You'll make kids notice the racial stereotyping even more.

Have all my rep:biggrin:
Original post by datpiff
Your view reeks of the 'white people know what's best for everyone' perspective.


You mean we don't?
:eek:

Seriously though, I really doubt any kid would take what they saw on cartoons literally. I've never seen a 9 year old paint a door on a wall and try to walk through it or think that a bruise on their head can be removed by hitting it with an oversized mallet. With something as overtly ridiculous and as far removed from reality as T&J, kids understand that it is silly (that's why they find it funny) and I honestly can't see any child trying to apply anything they see on shows like that to reality.
Original post by iEatMuFFiNS
It's TV, it's a cartoon, not aimed at anyone - if you get offended then you're a whiny moron with nothing better to think about than how offended you are about something irreverent...


you remind me of one of those people who whine about others being offended but as soon as the jokes on you all hell breaks lose. Too many of these people tbh.

Idgaf about tom and jerry using those jokes i find it hilarious but if someone doesnt like to be made fun of, let them
Reply 19
I never even saw that woman as a maid. I thought she was the owner of the house. I wasn't even sure if she was black. They never showed her face, I just assumed they were stockings.

Anyway, I prefer those old kid shows and cartoons that weren't so unrealistically politically correct. I remember watching one Disney movie when I was younger called Cheetah Girls. And one of the white girls was having an identity crisis, because she grew up in a predominately black care home and never knew her parents. They only touched on it briefly but it was interesting that they acknowledged that people are different. You would never get that these days.

On the other hand, their have been some flat out racist sketches against blacks and native Americans in these old American toons. They should just ban those episodes and let the rest play!

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