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"Scrap A Levels or Britain will be stuck with historians who can't do maths"

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In Ireland we have the Leaving Certificate in which a student takes at least seven subjects, maybe more if their school allows. There are four compulsory subjects (English Maths, Irish, and a language) and three optional. My daughter took History, Biology and Economics as her optionals.

The subjects can be studied and/or examined at two levels, Higher and Ordinary, and each level has a range of grades and marks assigned to it for use when applying to university. For instance an 'A1' grade at Higher level will give 100points but at Ordinary level will be given only 60 points. The points are counted for the top six subjects examined.

Because there are more subjects they are not studied to the same depth as A levels. Thus for UCAS purposes each LC subject is regarded as 2/3 of an A level, with appropriate UCAS points conversion as well.

The Leaving Cert allows a student to study a wide range of subjects up to university level without feeling confined,and so gives a greater leeway in choosing what to study at degree level.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by Queen Rosemary
Instead of scrapping a-levels we should scrap all the Non-STEM degrees starting with music.



Maybe keep english


Children who learn musical instruments always then do better in their other core subjects than when they didn't. It provides many stimulas to the brain that other activities just can't, and also provides a huge amount of trasferrable skills for other subjects.

Not everyone needs to specialise in music, but music education is actually very important with regards to its support of the rest of education for children (as well as emotional well being, etc).

To answer the OP:
The average adult does not need to understand maths beyond GCSE. After that it is only relevant to those wishing to specialize. So no, I don't think we should scrap A levels.
I do think we should have more opportunities for teenagers to change their mind or re-take if they decide they want to go down another path. Most people don't know what they want to do at that age.
Original post by Emaemmaemily
Children who learn musical instruments always then do better in their other core subjects than when they didn't. It provides many stimulas to the brain that other activities just can't, and also provides a huge amount of trasferrable skills for other subjects.

Not everyone needs to specialise in music, but music education is actually very important with regards to its support of the rest of education for children (as well as emotional well being, etc).

To answer the OP:
The average adult does not need to understand maths beyond GCSE. After that it is only relevant to those wishing to specialize. So no, I don't think we should scrap A levels.
I do think we should have more opportunities for teenagers to change their mind or re-take if they decide they want to go down another path. Most people don't know what they want to do at that age.

I use to hate music, both the subject and the art. When I was younger I avoided it, skipped lessons. It was awful in my eyes at the time.
my education turned out fine I think. I mean is it really that important?
I hated A Levels and specializing so early wasn't good for me, as I struggled to pick the right subjects, and subsequently didn't do well anyway. But on the other hand, I dunno if they should be scrapped as they obviously work for some people. Like someone else mentioned, I think there needs to be much more information given to GCSE-age pupils about all the viable options out there, such as apprenticeships and vocational courses, so that they're more likely to make better informed decisions that suit them.
Original post by Emaemmaemily
To answer the OP:
The average adult does not need to understand maths beyond GCSE. After that it is only relevant to those wishing to specialize. So no, I don't think we should scrap A levels.
I do think we should have more opportunities for teenagers to change their mind or re-take if they decide they want to go down another path. Most people don't know what they want to do at that age.


I agree, having to make the decision at 16 is way too early, as is having your future dictated by school. Teacher decided to put you in the bottom set for maths? Bye bye opportunity to study maths at A Level (unless they don't do this anymore...?) Why you would want a system which literally puts a cap on what students can achieve, I have no idea.
Original post by CherryCherryBoomBoom
I hated A Levels and specializing so early wasn't good for me, as I struggled to pick the right subjects, and subsequently didn't do well anyway. But on the other hand, I dunno if they should be scrapped as they obviously work for some people. Like someone else mentioned, I think there needs to be much more information given to GCSE-age pupils about all the viable options out there, such as apprenticeships and vocational courses, so that they're more likely to make better informed decisions that suit them.


Totally agree with this, and Arkasia's point that the social stigma around apprenticeships and vocational courses needs to end.

Also that there should be the opportunity to move onto degree level study through vocational routes.

Original post by Arkasia
No, it shouldn't. If someone is good at History and not Maths, then why should they not focus on History? Same with any other subject. We need more focus on individuals working towards their strengths, and we need to remove this elitist snobbery within academia that some subjects (STEM) are more important to learn than others (Non-STEM). Once we remove the social stigma surrounding 'weaker' subjects, we will have more students going in to do BTECs, vocational courses and apprenticeships, which will benefit our country and our economy in the long run.
Original post by ConsiderScience
I use to hate music, both the subject and the art. When I was younger I avoided it, skipped lessons. It was awful in my eyes at the time.
my education turned out fine I think. I mean is it really that important?


Not everyone likes it, and if it's something you hated then obviously you shouldn't be forced to learn an instrument.

I'm not saying your education can't go well without it, but the studies show that children on the whole always do better in their other subjects when they are learning an instrument, and it has proven to really boost those who are less able, too.
So while not every child needs to learn an intrument (and obviously, some children will dislike music), it is an important part of education and not something that should 've scrapped (as it was suggested in the post I quoted).
It is important that children have the opportunity to learn, at least.
Original post by Puddles the Monkey
All of the maths, but I am getting better. :redface:


Like, 1 + 1 = 2? :tongue:

Or things like ratios/percentages and whatnot?
Original post by SHallowvale
Like, 1 + 1 = 2? :tongue:

Or things like ratios/percentages and whatnot?


The latter. :smile: I can do the formulas, but I don't know why they work. :redface:
Original post by Puddles the Monkey
Totally agree with this, and Arkasia's point that the social stigma around apprenticeships and vocational courses needs to end.


:yep: If I could go back, I wish I'd could have looked into doing an apprenticeship at 17 after not doing well in my AS Levels - I probably would have enjoyed it more and done better. But instead, I was of course just advised by teachers to change my AS Level subjects, which didn't lead to much good either :sigh:. And then it seems difficult to get on to an apprenticeship after a certain age, as most places only seem to want to take on 16-18 year olds - so once you've missed your chance, you're kinda screwed unless you get really lucky.

Also that there should be the opportunity to move onto degree level study through vocational routes.


There already is a number of vocational routes into uni - I'm currently doing an HND, which can lead to a degree. There are also BTECs, access courses, Open Uni, and some apprenticeships that have degree study alongside them, and maybe some more I haven't mentioned here. But again, I don't think these are really as widely known as A Levels, or at least at secondary schools anyway.
I think the specialisation is great. You get to follow what YOU enjoy, and leave the rest to informal stuff which you ought and will get to know as an educated person anyway.

The fields of choice tend to be compatible with many other fields. It's not like you're stuck forever in a single field.

For instance I did a BTEC in Sports Science which had psychology, so I did a degree in Psychology which contained neuroscience, and I'm now doing neuroscience at MSc level. From neuroscience I may either stay in the field or go to medicine.
people who find maths hard often say "i have dyscalculia".

is there an equivalent condition for history students ?
Original post by the bear
people who find maths hard often say "i have dyscalculia".

is there an equivalent condition for history students ?

Isn't Dyscalculia the Dyslexia of maths? Lol :P
Original post by ConsiderScience
Isn't Dyscalculia the Dyslexia of maths? Lol :P


indeed... but what is the Dyscalculia of History ?

:holmes:
Original post by the bear
indeed... but what is the Dyscalculia of History ?

:holmes:

Historicula? Or does that sound to much like an std?
Original post by the bear
indeed... but what is the Dyscalculia of History ?

:holmes:


Original post by ConsiderScience
Historicula? Or does that sound to much like an std?


Dyshistoria

Historiahysteria
Original post by CherryCherryBoomBoom

There already is a number of vocational routes into uni - I'm currently doing an HND, which can lead to a degree. There are also BTECs, access courses, Open Uni, and some apprenticeships that have degree study alongside them, and maybe some more I haven't mentioned here. But again, I don't think these are really as widely known as A Levels, or at least at secondary schools anyway.


But are these routes considered on an equal footing with A Levels? :holmes:

Original post by hellodave5
I think the specialisation is great. You get to follow what YOU enjoy, and leave the rest to informal stuff which you ought and will get to know as an educated person anyway.

The fields of choice tend to be compatible with many other fields. It's not like you're stuck forever in a single field.

For instance I did a BTEC in Sports Science which had psychology, so I did a degree in Psychology which contained neuroscience, and I'm now doing neuroscience at MSc level. From neuroscience I may either stay in the field or go to medicine.


That's great, I'm really glad to hear it's working out for you :smile:
Original post by ConsiderScience
Historicula? Or does that sound to much like an std?


For instance i have immense trouble getting Kings and Queens questions right on University Challenge... i usually end up guessing :

really really early... Ethelred the Unready

middle mediaeval... Richard III, no II , no The Black Prince AAAAAAAARGH

other mediaeval... Henry IV...no Edward V...AAAAAAAAAARGH

a bit later... Henry VII... no Good Queen Bess... no that big fat one AAAAAAAAARGH

you see i have a genuine condition which precludes giving accurate answers...
Original post by Puddles the Monkey
Dyshistoria

Historiahysteria


How about Datophobia ?
Original post by ConsiderScience
Historicula? Or does that sound to much like an std?


It does sound like an std

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