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Indians in Ireland

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    I don't like not having the last word,so all I have to say on this matter is You are completely incorrect .
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    (Original post by StarsAreFixed)
    Dublin is a hell of a lot more multicultural than it was 10 years ago.. There's a huge amount of Polish, Lithuanians, Latviand, Romanians, Nigerians..and Indians, though they're far from the biggest group. There are a good few people with the 'they tuk ar jarbs' attitide, but in general, Dublin is welcoming, although, when I visited London a few months ago, I noticed that London is a lot more integrated.

    As for passports, you now need a passport travelling between the UK and Ireland, I'm not sure about the ferries because I haven't taken one in years.

    As for working in Dublin, the economy is relatively strong, wages are high, there isn't a shortage of jobs if you have the qualifications. Inflation is pretty high at the moment, food prices are high, the sterling-euro conversion screws us all over even though the euro is gaining, and the housing market is a joke also, though it has gone down a bit in recent years.

    Public transport- effective system still in progress..
    Here are my experiences of visiting Killarney (SW Ireland, and very beautiful) for a short holiday earlier this year. Food, accommodation and property prices do seem extremely high, and the change to the Euro has left a number of poorer-paid citizens very disadvantaged.
    The views in Kerry are magnificent and the roads were excellent, and very quiet as it was outside the tourist season, but many of the drivers appeared manic, and their vehicles sported numerous bashes and scrapes. I met several Polish and Eastern European people working in fast~food outlets in the town; they seemed to have a very poor grasp of English. However, for Indian immigrants, English is their second language ... does this help their integration? Of course! Poles & Eastern Europeans have their own enclaves and communities. Just because they're white skinned doesn't mean they are integrated with the local community, however hardworking they are.

    Killarney town centre was full of young white kids driving expensive cars and hanging around in groups at night. My landlady told me that there are serious drug problems in West Kerry now. She lamented the passing of the old Irish “spit on your hands”, hardworking mentality~ the “new money” that the European community has brought in has wrought many changes in the country, not all of them good.

    The last century saw crippling poverty and mass emigration amongst the labouring poor. Many of the old, turf~roofed stone cottages on the West Coast became graves for the families that starved to death within their walls during the Great Hunger of 1845.
    Cecil Woodham~Smith, an authority on the Irish Famine, wrote in "The Great Hunger; Ireland 1845~1849" that,

    " ...no issue has provoked so much anger or so embittered relations between the two countries (England and Ireland) as the indisputable fact that huge quantities of food were exported from Ireland to England throughout the period when the people of Ireland were dying of starvation."

    The old cottages have universally given way to nasty, pastel-coloured modern bungalows with wavy blinds at the windows.
    Ironically, who should be buying up those old ruins now? None but the British, waving their chequebooks, keen to purchase a bit of "the old country" they once despoiled.

    So why should immigration be an issue? ... why do we whinge and complain? For example, when Australians took umbrage about the arrival of Cambodian boat people ~I ask ... who were the original boat people? Blinkered hypocrisy! We've apparently got the God given right to colonialise other countries, yet when they try to return the compliment [but of course, not to colonialise] and come to ours?


    Between 1820 and 1860, the Irish constituted over one third of all immigrants to the United States. Many perished en route in the notorious “Coffin Ships”~ a parallel with the Triangular Slave Trade.

    Irish Catholic immigrants to the US for the most part went directly to mill towns [just like Commonwealth immigrants who came to Britain in the 50’s & 60’] and were hired by contractors to work in "labour gangs." And, of course, who can forget the NINA signs in lodging windows-
    [No Irish Need Apply]. Job discrimination against Irish immigrants continued well into the 20th century.

    What current Irish citizens feel about all this wallowing in nostalgia is unclear now that the country has joined the EEC and is becoming increasingly multi~racial. Prejudice still exists. Consider the following quote:

    In the early 1970s after the Birmingham bombs - the wave of anti-Irishness was horrific. I was refused service in a shop. I was made to feel that being Irish was a bad thing. I tried to hide my accent. That was the beginning of it. Up till 1974/5 there was a whimsical thing. Then the violence thing was revived. We were feared rather than patronised. People would just ignore you. I've been made to feel that you just don't belong.
    Source

    It goes back a long way...

    The author Anthony Trollope commented on anti-Irish prejudice in his novel, “Castle Richmond”:

    " That there is a strong feeling against things Irish it is impossible to deny. Irish servants need not apply; Irish acquaintances are treated with limited confidence; Irish cousins are regarded as being decidedly dangerous; and Irish stories are not popular with the bookseller."
    The "Irish Frankenstein," Punch, 20 May 1882:
    “Caricatures of Irish people as ape-like or monstrous beings occasionally appeared in satirical magazines like Punch, particularly at times of media outrage over a political crisis in Ireland or violent incidents in England: the Irish uprising of 1848; the shooting of a policeman in Manchester in 1867; the "Phoenix Park" murders in Dublin in 1882
    Charles Kingsley ... author of "The Water Babies" wrote:

    "I am haunted by the human chimpanzees I saw in Ireland . . . I don't believe they are our fault . . . But to see white chimpanzees is dreadful; if they were black, one would not feel it so much . . . "
    Anglo~Saxons and Celts.


    In order to justify their desire to rule over the Irish, the English arrogantly argued that Irish culture, religion, farming methods and laws were all ‘backward’. In 1749 the first book of ‘Irish Jokes’ was published. In it the Irish were shown as backward, terrorists and drunks. “Pat” became the generic term for an Irishman, and regional jokes grew up~ but in Killarney nowadays, try telling a Kerry joke in the bars in town and see what happens ...

    If you’ve read this far, you may think I’ve already kissed the Blarney Stone! :p: I do, in fact, have Irish forebears, and considering my countrymen’s poor treatment at the hands of the British helps me to understand British treatment of other disadvantaged peoples.


    ;lep;
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    (Original post by westofirelandgirl19)
    I don't like not having the last word,so all I have to say on this matter is You are completely incorrect .
    You're entitled to your opinion. But just because you say so, it doesn't make it a fact. I've not only stated the correct position, but I've posted links to the foreign office websites of both countries, amongst others, yet you are still to back up your claim with anything more than hearsay.

    Marcus
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    I stated my experiences while travelling,particularly by boat,where a passport was needed,I travelled this way 10-15 times, at (all) of which a passport was needed,whether or not this is set out in the constitution I don't know,but for the case of the OP I would say Yes a passport is required (drawing from my experiences) .
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    I think I'll have the last word, love.
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    (Original post by Casserole)
    I think I'll have the last word, love.

    You may have the last word . But I'm talking about in relation to the argument.duh.(?)
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    (Original post by urbandervish)
    Here are my experiences of visiting Killarney (SW Ireland, and very beautiful) for a short holiday earlier this year. Food, accommodation and property prices do seem extremely high, and the change to the Euro has left a number of poorer-paid citizens very disadvantaged.
    The views in Kerry are magnificent and the roads were excellent, and very quiet as it was outside the tourist season, but many of the drivers appeared manic, and their vehicles sported numerous bashes and scrapes. I met several Polish and Eastern European people working in fast~food outlets in the town; they seemed to have a very poor grasp of English. However, for Indian immigrants, English is their second language ... does this help their integration? Of course! Poles & Eastern Europeans have their own enclaves and communities. Just because they're white skinned doesn't mean they are integrated with the local community, however hardworking they are.

    Killarney town centre was full of young white kids driving expensive cars and hanging around in groups at night. My landlady told me that there are serious drug problems in West Kerry now. She lamented the passing of the old Irish “spit on your hands”, hardworking mentality~ the “new money” that the European community has brought in has wrought many changes in the country, not all of them good.

    The last century saw crippling poverty and mass emigration amongst the labouring poor. Many of the old, turf~roofed stone cottages on the West Coast became graves for the families that starved to death within their walls during the Great Hunger of 1845.
    Cecil Woodham~Smith, an authority on the Irish Famine, wrote in "The Great Hunger; Ireland 1845~1849" that,

    " ...no issue has provoked so much anger or so embittered relations between the two countries (England and Ireland) as the indisputable fact that huge quantities of food were exported from Ireland to England throughout the period when the people of Ireland were dying of starvation."

    The old cottages have universally given way to nasty, pastel-coloured modern bungalows with wavy blinds at the windows.
    Ironically, who should be buying up those old ruins now? None but the British, waving their chequebooks, keen to purchase a bit of "the old country" they once despoiled.

    So why should immigration be an issue? ... why do we whinge and complain? For example, when Australians took umbrage about the arrival of Cambodian boat people ~I ask ... who were the original boat people? Blinkered hypocrisy! We've apparently got the God given right to colonialise other countries, yet when they try to return the compliment [but of course, not to colonialise] and come to ours?


    Between 1820 and 1860, the Irish constituted over one third of all immigrants to the United States. Many perished en route in the notorious “Coffin Ships”~ a parallel with the Triangular Slave Trade.

    Irish Catholic immigrants to the US for the most part went directly to mill towns [just like Commonwealth immigrants who came to Britain in the 50’s & 60’] and were hired by contractors to work in "labour gangs." And, of course, who can forget the NINA signs in lodging windows-
    [No Irish Need Apply]. Job discrimination against Irish immigrants continued well into the 20th century.

    What current Irish citizens feel about all this wallowing in nostalgia is unclear now that the country has joined the EEC and is becoming increasingly multi~racial. Prejudice still exists. Consider the following quote:

    Source

    It goes back a long way...

    The author Anthony Trollope commented on anti-Irish prejudice in his novel, “Castle Richmond”:



    The "Irish Frankenstein," Punch, 20 May 1882:


    Charles Kingsley ... author of "The Water Babies" wrote:

    Anglo~Saxons and Celts.


    In order to justify their desire to rule over the Irish, the English arrogantly argued that Irish culture, religion, farming methods and laws were all ‘backward’. In 1749 the first book of ‘Irish Jokes’ was published. In it the Irish were shown as backward, terrorists and drunks. “Pat” became the generic term for an Irishman, and regional jokes grew up~ but in Killarney nowadays, try telling a Kerry joke in the bars in town and see what happens ...

    If you’ve read this far, you may think I’ve already kissed the Blarney Stone! :p: I do, in fact, have Irish forebears, and considering my countrymen’s poor treatment at the hands of the British helps me to understand British treatment of other disadvantaged peoples.


    ;lep;
    Sorry ,but most of that is rubbish(excuse me if i'm wrong,scanned quickly through it). Ireland isn't disadvantaged,people seriously need to move on,Ireland has. These old Ideas of Ireland are no longer true,they've now become the stereotypical view of Ireland ,when infact no one is like that anymore :rolleyes:
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    Why not just go to India......?
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    (Original post by poona)
    Why not just go to India......?
    Because most obviously, as they have stated, they want to go to Ireland?
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    (Original post by westofirelandgirl19)
    Sorry ,but most of that is rubbish(excuse me if i'm wrong,scanned quickly through it). Ireland isn't disadvantaged,people seriously need to move on,Ireland has. These old Ideas of Ireland are no longer true,they've now become the stereotypical view of Ireland ,when infact no one is like that anymore :rolleyes:
    Except for you perhaps
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    hmmmmmmmm?
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    (Original post by westofirelandgirl19)
    hmmmmmmmm?
    what?

    I was talking historically disadvantaged. :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by urbandervish)
    what?

    I was talking historically disadvantaged. :rolleyes:
    Irish people are/were no more disadvantaged than anyone else:rolleyes:
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    (Original post by westofirelandgirl19)
    Irish people are/were no more disadvantaged than anyone else:rolleyes:
    Your comment is something of a non sequiture.

    If you're saying that other social groups have also suffered disadvantage, well, of course that is true. But how can you measure disadvantage in relative terms? I think you will agree that in the 19th century, the Irish suffered a number of appalling famines which decimated the population & led to mass emigration~ have you identified something similar in English history?
    I would be very interested in hearing a refutation, point by point, of what I have said~ if you disagree, that's fine, let's have a debate. Merely to assert that my argument is fallacious on the basis of "excuse me if i'm wrong,scanned quickly through it" does not add anything of value to this discussion.
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    (Original post by urbandervish)
    Your comment is something of a non sequiture.

    If you're saying that other social groups have also suffered disadvantage, well, of course that is true. But how can you measure disadvantage in relative terms? I think you will agree that in the 19th century, the Irish suffered a number of appalling famines which decimated the population & led to mass emigration~ have you identified something similar in English history?
    I would be very interested in hearing a refutation, point by point, of what I have said~ if you disagree, that's fine, let's have a debate. Merely to assert that my argument is fallacious on the basis of "excuse me if i'm wrong,scanned quickly through it" does not add anything of value to this discussion.
    Right ,there has been almost exactly the same poverty level throughout history for both England& Ireland,bar the famine ,which was not the Irishs fault. I'm talking about now, this 'idea' that Ireland is full of poverty striken oppressed un-educated people ,is totally untrue today,make a visit to Dublin ,Donnybrook..one of the Richest parts of Ireland full of upperclass millionaires,and you would no longer be dillusioned into thinking this stereotypical view of Ireland still holds true today. Ireland is AHEAD of the UK on the list of the wealthiest countries,Ireland is no more poverty striken than the people who think it is ,get with the times .
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    (Original post by soggylettuce)
    not surprised.
    ireland is not very welcoming of colored people, blacks and minorirites sicne irish are a mionority everywhere. so tehy get their own back in theuir cournty,

    plus because so many are poor and uneducateed, they are often resentfull of colored peoples who take their jobs awaaay.

    Like most countries, OP, in the cities you will find more ethnic diversity. There are a lot of Indian people in Belfast. I lived in a country town before moving for uni and my best friend at school was an Indian girl. There aren't a vast amount of Indian people but there is a close knit community of those who do live here.
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    (Original post by qubog)
    Like most countries, OP, in the cities you will find more ethnic diversity. There are a lot of Indian people in Belfast. I lived in a country town before moving for uni and my best friend at school was an Indian girl. There aren't a vast amount of Indian people but there is a close knit community of those who do live here.
    Hmmm, perhaps being churlish of me, but I don't consider Belfast as Ireland. I'm going to get shot now.

    Marcus
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    Yes, yes you are.

    :ninja:
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    (Original post by marcusfox)
    Hmmm, perhaps being churlish of me, but I don't consider Belfast as Ireland. I'm going to get shot now.

    Marcus
    What sort of statement is that??

    No technically,according to the queen anyway, Belfast isn't in Ireland..but I have met ALOT of people from Belfast & Antrim,omagh etc. and have yet to meet one who doesn't consider himself/herself Irish

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    (Original post by qubog)
    Yes, yes you are.

    :ninja:
    sorry but i had to steal your signature

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