Ched Evans should have his conviction overturned
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A couple of points:
- She voluntarily went back to the hotel
- She was perfectly capable of walking in and out of the hotel by herself, as seen on the CCTV and pictures in the article.
- She was able to communicate with other people
Having sex with someone, regretting it or not remembering it and then accusing them of rape is disgusting and is in my view as bad as someone committing rape. Wrongly accusing someone of rape drags their name through the mud, gives them a reputation they can't shake, in many cases it ruins their career.
Lets assume the following points are true 1) she gave her drunken consent 2) she was extremely blackout drunk. Why does this give her an excuse to shout rape? If i get blackout drunk throw a brick through a window would the police come along and say "well you were to drunk to know what you were doing so we'll let you off". If she is physically able to carry out sexual acts and has given her drunken consent then in my eyes it's not rape at all and to call it rape is extremely insulting to those who have been rape.
My final point on this article. I think a lot of her distress was caused by the fact that she had woken up in a strange place, alone and with no recollection of the night before. Would she have been as distressed and willing to cry rape if she had woken up in her own bed with ched evans next to her? I think the circumstances she found herself in have played a big part in how she's viewed the whole incident.
- She voluntarily went back to the hotel
- She was perfectly capable of walking in and out of the hotel by herself, as seen on the CCTV and pictures in the article.
- She was able to communicate with other people
Having sex with someone, regretting it or not remembering it and then accusing them of rape is disgusting and is in my view as bad as someone committing rape. Wrongly accusing someone of rape drags their name through the mud, gives them a reputation they can't shake, in many cases it ruins their career.
Lets assume the following points are true 1) she gave her drunken consent 2) she was extremely blackout drunk. Why does this give her an excuse to shout rape? If i get blackout drunk throw a brick through a window would the police come along and say "well you were to drunk to know what you were doing so we'll let you off". If she is physically able to carry out sexual acts and has given her drunken consent then in my eyes it's not rape at all and to call it rape is extremely insulting to those who have been rape.
My final point on this article. I think a lot of her distress was caused by the fact that she had woken up in a strange place, alone and with no recollection of the night before. Would she have been as distressed and willing to cry rape if she had woken up in her own bed with ched evans next to her? I think the circumstances she found herself in have played a big part in how she's viewed the whole incident.
But how was she able to form the belief than she was genuinely capable of giving consent when the jury already determined that she was too drunk to consent? There is a fundamental contradiction here that can't be sidestepped. The law is an ass - and this case beautifully illustrates it. The Emperor has no clothes...
Original post by arson_fire
Not necessary. If she was plastered then it`s up to the defendant to provide evidence that he believed she was genuinely capable of giving consent. McDonald can do this by showing she voluntarily went to the hotel with him - this might have been enough to sway the jury. Evans has nothing to show.
Just think about it logically. She gave the other guy permission so by the time Evans arrived, she would have been in an even better state to consent.
Original post by arson_fire
There`s no evidence she gave either of them permission. She can`t remember, so it`s basically their word that she did.
She obviously gave the other guy consent as she walked into the hotel with him of her own accord.
Original post by arson_fire
Doesn`t mean she agreed to have sex with him............
You're basically just sticking your fingers in your ears and blocking out any form of logic. So the other guy should have been convicted too??? Get this: She is clearly shown to follow him to the hotel and and to a room yet you're doubting whether she gave him consent??
Original post by arson_fire
The fact she went to the hotel is probably why he wasn`t convicted as it raised reasonable doubt. But saying that she gave him consent to have sex with her by walking into the hotel is a bit of a dodgy thing to say TBH!
But then with that logic, she would have less drunk by the time evans arrived. Easier to consent.
Original post by arson_fire
Given how drunk she was in it`s up to him to prove he had consent, not her to prove he didn`t.
He doesn't have to prove anything, it's for the prosecution to prove he is guilty. Innocent until proven guilty.
Original post by arson_fire
Nope. See section 75 of the Sexual Offences Act. Where the victim is heavily under the influence of alcohol or drugs it`s up to the defendant to prove he had consent.
Yep, didn't realise she was so blatently drunk beyond being able to consent. I was thinking of just normal drunk.
Original post by arson_fire
It was only 15 minutes - you`re going to lose virtually no alcohol in that time, in fact probably likely to get more drunk as the alcohol from those last couple of drinks gets absorbed. I think the degree of her drunkenness is a bit of a red herring - IMHO it`s the fact that Evans has no evidence to offer that he believed he had her consent that did for him.
So your logic is basically she's drunk so any part she played in what happened cannot be counted. I don't see how a person can follow someone to a hotel to have sex and then, wake up and claim rape. It just smacks of irresponsibility. When you take the decision to drink alcohol, you accept the consequences. According to the prosecution, she was paralytic yet it is shown that she follows the first guy to the hotel of her own free will. This clearly shows she was in control of her actions. This thing she pulled is just her not being able to man up and accept that the alcohol caused it.
Original post by james22
Yep, didn't realise she was so blatently drunk beyond being able to consent. I was thinking of just normal drunk.
Where's the limit of being "able to consent" though?
Original post by Chief Wiggum
Where's the limit of being "able to consent" though?
That's the problem. Feminists will keep shifting the goal posts until a signed contract is needed for sex. The solution is simply not pick up drunk girls EVER. Don't take that chance.
Original post by Chief Wiggum
Where's the limit of being "able to consent" though?
The limit certainly exists, I would say that if you are able to say that you want sex you have consented. If not, then you cannot consent. If there is ambiguity then a jury should assume consent was given.
Original post by arson_fire
It`s not really my logic, it`s how the law works. There`s no evidence that she went to the hotel intending to have sex - that`s just an assumption (albeit not unreasonable).
It`s not really a case of her not taking responsibility for her actions while drunk. The law places a clear onus on someone to check that the person they are about to have sex with has given their consent AND is in a fit state to give that consent. If it is (or should be) obvious to a normal person that someone is plastered on drink or drugs then the law says they aren`t able to give consent. Contract law is similar: If someone takes advantage of you while you`re drunk, and its obvious that your drunk, and makes you sign a contract then that contract is probably not enforceable.
Maybe it was a case of buyers remorse - i`m not convinced, and the jury certainly weren`t.
It`s not really a case of her not taking responsibility for her actions while drunk. The law places a clear onus on someone to check that the person they are about to have sex with has given their consent AND is in a fit state to give that consent. If it is (or should be) obvious to a normal person that someone is plastered on drink or drugs then the law says they aren`t able to give consent. Contract law is similar: If someone takes advantage of you while you`re drunk, and its obvious that your drunk, and makes you sign a contract then that contract is probably not enforceable.
Maybe it was a case of buyers remorse - i`m not convinced, and the jury certainly weren`t.
There's really also no evidence that she didn't give consent.
Why do people constantly bring up drink spiking?
There was a study done some time ago( no link sorry )
that found from tests that a tiny number of the women tested (maybe even zero ) that thought they had been spiked, in fact hadnt. Just like this woman they thought they had been spiked because they couldnt remember the night before, but the tests showed no traces of such drugs.
What they did show though was they had all drunk large quantities of alcohol, in fact very large quantities. They had drank so much that they had no memory of the previous night, something that many of us have experienced.
Women dont need to have their drinks spiked, they are drinking themselves into a state of stupor all by themselves. You can see it in town centres up and down the country any friday or saturday night.
If there are two lessons from this, they are men shouldnt have sex with a woman that has had any drink,
and women shouldnt drink large quantities of alcohol and then look around for somebody else to blame when they cant remember what happened.
There was a study done some time ago( no link sorry )
that found from tests that a tiny number of the women tested (maybe even zero ) that thought they had been spiked, in fact hadnt. Just like this woman they thought they had been spiked because they couldnt remember the night before, but the tests showed no traces of such drugs.
What they did show though was they had all drunk large quantities of alcohol, in fact very large quantities. They had drank so much that they had no memory of the previous night, something that many of us have experienced.
Women dont need to have their drinks spiked, they are drinking themselves into a state of stupor all by themselves. You can see it in town centres up and down the country any friday or saturday night.
If there are two lessons from this, they are men shouldnt have sex with a woman that has had any drink,
and women shouldnt drink large quantities of alcohol and then look around for somebody else to blame when they cant remember what happened.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by arson_fire
Not necessary. If she was plastered then it`s up to the defendant to provide evidence that he believed she was genuinely capable of giving consent. McDonald can do this by showing she voluntarily went to the hotel with him - this might have been enough to sway the jury. Evans has nothing to show.
So if you ever have sex with a girl, who was drunk, and it turns out she doesn't remember it, and cries rape, does it mean you're a rapist?
How does someone prove that the other person consented.
Picture it, you meet a girl in a club, you're not with your mates, she's not with hers, you both go outside, what ever, then back to your house. Next day... it all kicks off and she says you raped her..... it's a joke of a verdict an it's scary to think it could happen to anyone.
Original post by blue n white army
A couple of points:
- She voluntarily went back to the hotel
- She was perfectly capable of walking in and out of the hotel by herself, as seen on the CCTV and pictures in the article.
- She was able to communicate with other people
Having sex with someone, regretting it or not remembering it and then accusing them of rape is disgusting and is in my view as bad as someone committing rape. Wrongly accusing someone of rape drags their name through the mud, gives them a reputation they can't shake, in many cases it ruins their career.
Lets assume the following points are true 1) she gave her drunken consent 2) she was extremely blackout drunk. Why does this give her an excuse to shout rape? If i get blackout drunk throw a brick through a window would the police come along and say "well you were to drunk to know what you were doing so we'll let you off". If she is physically able to carry out sexual acts and has given her drunken consent then in my eyes it's not rape at all and to call it rape is extremely insulting to those who have been rape.
My final point on this article. I think a lot of her distress was caused by the fact that she had woken up in a strange place, alone and with no recollection of the night before. Would she have been as distressed and willing to cry rape if she had woken up in her own bed with ched evans next to her? I think the circumstances she found herself in have played a big part in how she's viewed the whole incident.
- She voluntarily went back to the hotel
- She was perfectly capable of walking in and out of the hotel by herself, as seen on the CCTV and pictures in the article.
- She was able to communicate with other people
Having sex with someone, regretting it or not remembering it and then accusing them of rape is disgusting and is in my view as bad as someone committing rape. Wrongly accusing someone of rape drags their name through the mud, gives them a reputation they can't shake, in many cases it ruins their career.
Lets assume the following points are true 1) she gave her drunken consent 2) she was extremely blackout drunk. Why does this give her an excuse to shout rape? If i get blackout drunk throw a brick through a window would the police come along and say "well you were to drunk to know what you were doing so we'll let you off". If she is physically able to carry out sexual acts and has given her drunken consent then in my eyes it's not rape at all and to call it rape is extremely insulting to those who have been rape.
My final point on this article. I think a lot of her distress was caused by the fact that she had woken up in a strange place, alone and with no recollection of the night before. Would she have been as distressed and willing to cry rape if she had woken up in her own bed with ched evans next to her? I think the circumstances she found herself in have played a big part in how she's viewed the whole incident.
So much truth, why are we "not able to consent" to one thing, but then able to consent to another thing.
Also I agree, it is insulting to serious rape victims also.
Let's face it, the public, and jury, don't like the idea of two footballers having sex with a girl, they think it's seedy and creepy, but it happens all the time, and the girls want it to happen.
I don't see how, judging by her previous actions of meeting a guy, and going to have sex with him 10 minutes later, that it's so out of the question that she could have also wanted to have sex with his mate. I personally have friends who've pretty much done this, now make them famous footballers, and it increases the chance even more.
(edited 9 years ago)
A few comments on this case really,
The victim didn't complain rape she believed she'd had her bag stolen and had her drink spiked, Mcdonald was acquitted because she willingly went to the hotel room with him, Evans turned up (with no prior warning) after Mcdonald texted he got a bird obtained a key card from reception to the room then invited himself in, while his brother & friend sat outside the window trying to record what happened next, Mcdonald left told reception to watch the girl in room 14 as she was sick then evans ran out of the fire escape. Yes she shouldnt have so much to drink, but why did evans think hey my mates got a bird I'll just invite myself to the room, His actions at best were disgusting and his girlfriend has no self respect,
The victim didn't get anything out of the case nothing at all, Infact she had to change her identity and move away from family & friends to stop Evans supporters making her life hell, she cant sell her story because of anonymity and received nothing from evans while he walks out jail, back to his cushy job & hailed a hero, why would anyone report rape against anyone ? It just shows your life will be made a living hell
The victim didn't complain rape she believed she'd had her bag stolen and had her drink spiked, Mcdonald was acquitted because she willingly went to the hotel room with him, Evans turned up (with no prior warning) after Mcdonald texted he got a bird obtained a key card from reception to the room then invited himself in, while his brother & friend sat outside the window trying to record what happened next, Mcdonald left told reception to watch the girl in room 14 as she was sick then evans ran out of the fire escape. Yes she shouldnt have so much to drink, but why did evans think hey my mates got a bird I'll just invite myself to the room, His actions at best were disgusting and his girlfriend has no self respect,
The victim didn't get anything out of the case nothing at all, Infact she had to change her identity and move away from family & friends to stop Evans supporters making her life hell, she cant sell her story because of anonymity and received nothing from evans while he walks out jail, back to his cushy job & hailed a hero, why would anyone report rape against anyone ? It just shows your life will be made a living hell
Original post by vickidc18
A few comments on this case really,
The victim didn't complain rape she believed she'd had her bag stolen and had her drink spiked, Mcdonald was acquitted because she willingly went to the hotel room with him, Evans turned up (with no prior warning) after Mcdonald texted he got a bird obtained a key card from reception to the room then invited himself in, while his brother & friend sat outside the window trying to record what happened next, Mcdonald left told reception to watch the girl in room 14 as she was sick then evans ran out of the fire escape. Yes she shouldnt have so much to drink, but why did evans think hey my mates got a bird I'll just invite myself to the room, His actions at best were disgusting and his girlfriend has no self respect,
The victim didn't get anything out of the case nothing at all, Infact she had to change her identity and move away from family & friends to stop Evans supporters making her life hell, she cant sell her story because of anonymity and received nothing from evans while he walks out jail, back to his cushy job & hailed a hero, why would anyone report rape against anyone ? It just shows your life will be made a living hell
The victim didn't complain rape she believed she'd had her bag stolen and had her drink spiked, Mcdonald was acquitted because she willingly went to the hotel room with him, Evans turned up (with no prior warning) after Mcdonald texted he got a bird obtained a key card from reception to the room then invited himself in, while his brother & friend sat outside the window trying to record what happened next, Mcdonald left told reception to watch the girl in room 14 as she was sick then evans ran out of the fire escape. Yes she shouldnt have so much to drink, but why did evans think hey my mates got a bird I'll just invite myself to the room, His actions at best were disgusting and his girlfriend has no self respect,
The victim didn't get anything out of the case nothing at all, Infact she had to change her identity and move away from family & friends to stop Evans supporters making her life hell, she cant sell her story because of anonymity and received nothing from evans while he walks out jail, back to his cushy job & hailed a hero, why would anyone report rape against anyone ? It just shows your life will be made a living hell
That's the problem. She'd drunk herself into a state where her decision making was bad. Instead of taking responsibility, she alleges her drink was spiked. It's just irresponsibility. A guy would have carried on with his life.
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