The Student Room Group

The Austerity Game

Poll

Which group do you want to force austerity on the most?

Ever wanted to be one of the most hated men in Britain? Now here is your chance. You can be the Chancellor of the Exchequer and decide what to cut from the welfare bill.

George Osborne said we need to make £25 Billion cuts to public spending; £12 Billion of which will be welfare cuts.

Francis Maude said we need to make £20 Billion cuts on top of our current austerity plans.

So here is your task. Make 32 Billion worth of cuts to the welfare budget. Pick & choose carefully. You could face Communist revolution or even worse loose next years election.

The Tories are depending on you!

.............................................

Welfare spending 2013-2014


State Pensions 74.22 Bn
Tax Credits 29.91 Bn
Housing Benefit 22.77 Bn
Disability Living Allowance 13.97 Bn
Child Benefit 12.22 Bn
Employment Support Allowance 10.52 Bn
Pension Credit 8.11 Bn
Income Support 6.92 Bn
Attendence Allowance 5.59 Bn
Job Seekers Allowance 5.26Bn
Council Tax Benefit 4.83 Bn
Statutory Maternity 2.39 Bn
Winter Fuel Payments 2.17 Bn
Carers Allowance 2.08 Bn
Financial Assistance Scheme 1.24 Bn
Industrial Injuries Disablement Benefit 0.9 Bn
Over 75 TV Licence 0.6 Bn
Bereavement Benefits 0.58 Bn
Maternity Allowance 0.4 Bn
Discretionary Housing Payments 0.16 Bn
Christmas Bonus 0.15 Bn
Statutory Sick Pay 0.05 Bn
Specialised Vechiles Fund 0.02 Bn
Enterprise Allowance 0.01 Bn

.......................................

Make sure you list all your answers and add the total up.
(edited 9 years ago)

Scroll to see replies

Original post by illegaltobepoor
Ever wanted to be one of the most hated men in Britain? Now here is your chance. You can be the Chancellor of the Exchequer and decide what to cut from the welfare bill.

George Osborne said we need to make £25 Billion cuts to public spending; £12 Billion of which will be welfare cuts.

Francis Maude said we need to make £20 Billion cuts on top of our current austerity plans.

So here is your task. Make 32 Billion worth of cuts to the welfare budget. Pick & choose carefully. You could face Communist revolution or even worse loose next years election.

The Tories are depending on you!

.............................................

Welfare spending 2013-2014


State Pensions 74.22 Bn
Tax Credits 29.91 Bn
Housing Benefit 22.77 Bn
Disability Living Allowance 13.97 Bn
Child Benefit 12.22 Bn
Employment Support Allowance 10.52 Bn
Pension Credit 8.11 Bn
Income Support 6.92 Bn
Attendence Allowance 5.59 Bn
Job Seekers Allowance 5.26Bn
Council Tax Benefit 4.83 Bn
Statutory Maternity 2.39 Bn
Winter Fuel Payments 2.17 Bn
Carers Allowance 2.08 Bn
Financial Assistance Scheme 1.24 Bn
Industrial Injuries Disablement Benefit 0.9 Bn
Over 75 TV Licence 0.6 Bn
Bereavement Benefits 0.58 Bn
Maternity Allowance 0.4 Bn
Discretionary Housing Payments 0.16 Bn
Christmas Bonus 0.15 Bn
Statutory Sick Pay 0.05 Bn
Specialised Vechiles Fund 0.02 Bn
Enterprise Allowance 0.01 Bn

.......................................

Make sure you list all your answers and add the total up.


I would abolish the child benefit completely, eliminating 12.22 B from the budget. The child benefit is only 20 a week and therefore quite insignificant for an individual family, yet results in a massive amount in the overall budget.

This achieves the 12 Billion in welfare cuts required.
Reply 2
Original post by illegaltobepoor
Ever wanted to be one of the most hated men in Britain? Now here is your chance. You can be the Chancellor of the Exchequer and decide what to cut from the welfare bill.

George Osborne said we need to make £25 Billion cuts to public spending; £12 Billion of which will be welfare cuts.

Francis Maude said we need to make £20 Billion cuts on top of our current austerity plans.

So here is your task. Make 32 Billion worth of cuts to the welfare budget. Pick & choose carefully. You could face Communist revolution or even worse loose next years election.

The Tories are depending on you!

.............................................

Welfare spending 2013-2014


State Pensions 74.22 Bn
Tax Credits 29.91 Bn
Housing Benefit 22.77 Bn
Disability Living Allowance 13.97 Bn
Child Benefit 12.22 Bn
Employment Support Allowance 10.52 Bn
Pension Credit 8.11 Bn
Income Support 6.92 Bn
Attendence Allowance 5.59 Bn
Job Seekers Allowance 5.26Bn
Council Tax Benefit 4.83 Bn
Statutory Maternity 2.39 Bn
Winter Fuel Payments 2.17 Bn
Carers Allowance 2.08 Bn
Financial Assistance Scheme 1.24 Bn
Industrial Injuries Disablement Benefit 0.9 Bn
Over 75 TV Licence 0.6 Bn
Bereavement Benefits 0.58 Bn
Maternity Allowance 0.4 Bn
Discretionary Housing Payments 0.16 Bn
Christmas Bonus 0.15 Bn
Statutory Sick Pay 0.05 Bn
Specialised Vechiles Fund 0.02 Bn
Enterprise Allowance 0.01 Bn

.......................................

Make sure you list all your answers and add the total up.

State pensions at least 20 billion. I'm sure lots of pensioners are still fit to work
My grandpa is 93 and is more capable than me, yet he's been on benefits (state pension) since he was 60.

I agree with the idea that a pension, unless paid for out your own pocket, shouldn't be an allowance to loaf when you're in good health. It's ageist to suggest that a capable 80 year old should be tax payer funded to do **** all but mentally ill and incapable 22 year old should be out at work.

Over 75 tv licence is pointless

Cut child benefit entirely
Original post by nohomo
State pensions at least 20 billion. I'm sure lots of pensioners are still fit to work
My grandpa is 93 and is more capable than me, yet he's been on benefits (state pension) since he was 60.

I agree with the idea that a pension, unless paid for out your own pocket, shouldn't be an allowance to loaf when you're in good health. It's ageist to suggest that a capable 80 year old should be tax payer funded to do **** all but mentally ill and incapable 22 year old should be out at work.

Over 75 tv licence is pointless

Cut child benefit entirely


The old people of today are entitled to have their pensions because when they were young a lot of the tax they spent went towards the pensioners of their day. They did this under an unwritten social contract that they would receive pensions when they were old too. (Do you really think they would have paid taxes to the pensioners of their day without expecting a pension of their own when they retire?) The suggestion to cancel their pensions now is completely unethical.

But I believe it is fair if we young folk agree to not have pensions when we age, but it is completely wrong to take away the pensions of the people who have already retired.
(edited 9 years ago)
Reply 4
Original post by Doctor_Einstein
The old people of today are entitled to have their pensions because when they were young a lot of the tax they spent went towards the pensioners of their day. They did this under an unwritten social contract that they would receive pensions when they were old too. (Do you really think they would have paid taxes to the pensioners of their day without expecting a pension of their own when they retire?) The suggestion to cancel their pensions now is completely unethical.

But I believe it is fair if we young folk agree to not have pensions when we age, but it is completely wrong to take away the pensions of the people who have already retired.


It's not a question of fair
I'd suggest also that if you're heavily reliant on state pension you haven't had much income in life so haven't paid much tax.
We've got a massive deficit and we should cut where we can. Fit to work elderly people should be considered
Laziness is not an excuse
Reply 5
Original post by Doctor_Einstein
The old people of today are entitled to have their pensions because when they were young a lot of the tax they spent went towards the pensioners of their day. They did this under an unwritten social contract that they would receive pensions when they were old too. (Do you really think they would have paid taxes to the pensioners of their day without expecting a pension of their own when they retire?) The suggestion to cancel their pensions now is completely unethical.

But I believe it is fair if we young folk agree to not have pensions when we age, but it is completely wrong to take away the pensions of the people who have already retired.

You there dog?
Original post by nohomo
It's not a question of fair
I'd suggest also that if you're heavily reliant on state pension you haven't had much income in life so haven't paid much tax.
We've got a massive deficit and we should cut where we can. Fit to work elderly people should be considered
Laziness is not an excuse


Cutting the child benefit alone already achieves the 12 billion in cuts required and further cuts of aged pension is unnecessary.

To cut the pension of those who spent their lives paying taxes to support the pensions in their own day unnecessarily is morally wrong.

It is wrong because they live most of their life under the expectation they will receive a pension and this will affect the way they save throughout life.

Consider this scenario: You save lots of money in your bank account because you are under the impression that when you are old you can spend this money on your retirement. When you age, imagine the young folk of the future decide to abolish income tax and introduce a wealth tax, taxing you 50% of your account, despite the fact you have already paid an income tax. It would be completely wrong because you were not expecting this change and you planned your life around your expectation.
Original post by nohomo
You there dog?


Yeah bro I already replied to you.
Reply 8
Original post by Doctor_Einstein
Cutting the child benefit alone already achieves the 12 billion in cuts required and further cuts of aged pension is unnecessary.

To cut the pension of those who spent their lives paying taxes to support the pensions in their own day unnecessarily is morally wrong.

It is wrong because they live most of their life under the expectation they will receive a pension and this will affect the way they save throughout life.

Consider this scenario: You save lots of money in your bank account because you are under the impression that when you are old you can spend this money on your retirement. When you age, imagine the young folk of the future decide to abolish income tax and introduce a wealth tax, taxing you 50% of your account, despite the fact you have already paid an income tax. It would be completely wrong because you were not expecting this change and you planned your life around your expectation.


Again if you rely on state pension you probably haven't paid much tax. You were probs a drain your entire life.

Necessary is subjective
..it would certainly be better to cut the deficit as much as possible.

Who cares if they saved in a certain way and carelessly partied their lives away alongside their **** job witu the expectation that taxpayers would foot the bill at a certain age?

If they can work they work. If not they're in luck because I haven't cut disability so they can have a work capability assessment to make sure they aren't scroungers, then get some benefits.

Last part is irrelevant.
Reply 9
Original post by Doctor_Einstein
Yeah bro I already replied to you.


Bro?
Original post by nohomo
Again if you rely on state pension you probably haven't paid much tax. You were probs a drain your entire life.

Necessary is subjective
..it would certainly be better to cut the deficit as much as possible.

Who cares if they saved in a certain way and carelessly partied their lives away alongside their **** job witu the expectation that taxpayers would foot the bill at a certain age?

If they can work they work. If not they're in luck because I haven't cut disability so they can have a work capability assessment to make sure they aren't scroungers, then get some benefits.

Last part is irrelevant.


If you want to assume they didn't pay much tax, it is only fair that you treat the pension on a case by case basis depended on how much tax was paid, as many pensioners have paid hundreds of thousands in tax.

Your second point links to my analogy which you think is irrelevant (but probably just don't understand the connection). If you know in advance that wealth will be taxed, you have a higher incentive to spend. If you know in advance that there will be no pension you have a higher incentive to save.

I assure you many pensioners would have been able to afford their retirement if they knew the rules of the game in advance, that they would have to. But they were told that they would be given a pension so they played the game by those rules. Is it fair to start a game of monopoly then at the very end say whoever gets out first wins? It's very unfair to change the rules so drastically towards the end of the game.

If society suddenly changes your entitlements at the end of your life, you're screwed and it is ethically wrong.
Reply 11
Original post by Doctor_Einstein
If you want to assume they didn't pay much tax, it is only fair that you treat the pension on a case by case basis depended on how much tax was paid, as many pensioners have paid hundreds of thousands in tax.

Your second point links to my analogy which you think is irrelevant (but probably just don't understand the connection). If you know in advance that wealth will be taxed, you have a higher incentive to spend. If you know in advance that there will be no pension you have a higher incentive to save.

I assure you many pensioners would have been able to afford their retirement if they knew the rules of the game in advance, that they would have to. But they were told that they would be given a pension so they played the game by those rules. Is it fair to start a game of monopoly then at the very end say whoever gets out first wins? It's very unfair to change the rules so drastically towards the end of the game.

If society suddenly changes your entitlements at the end of your life, you're screwed and it is ethically wrong.

I can't see either of us convincing the other.

I was mainly just trollin/being provocative lol ... I want to keep state pension partly for my own sake really.

I enjoyed our.chat anyway. Been trying to read more so going back to my book now.
Original post by nohomo
Bro?


Mate I have no problem with abolishing the pension, but just abolish it for the people aged 55 years and younger. The budget will survive another 10-15 years without removing pensions.
Reply 13
Original post by Doctor_Einstein
Mate I have no problem with abolishing the pension, but just abolish it for the people aged 55 years and younger. The budget will survive another 10-15 years without removing pensions.

Well I enjoyed our chat anyway :smile:

Seeya :tongue:
Original post by nohomo
...


Original post by Doctor_Einstein
...


Just read the arguments of you two debating.

I would add that people who have saved for a private pensioner sometimes lose their pension if a company goes bust.
You can't expect old people to have zero income just as you can't expect a disabled person to have no income.
Repeating the same wrong which the Tories did to disabled people is a bad option and just reinforces the ideological austerity mentality.

As for abolishing child benefit I don't think it could be done. There would have to be some alternative. I would be in favor of a youth resources center in every town and city. Buy clothing & food in a wholesale way and it may work out cheaper.
The excess which is left over could be cut.

.........................................................

If it was me I would simply do a 15% cut on every welfare benefit including pensions and tax credits. It would raise 32 billion. I might upset every voting group but it would be a better solution then leaving 1 group without an income.
(edited 9 years ago)
Reply 15
Original post by illegaltobepoor
Ever wanted to be one of the most hated men in Britain? Now here is your chance. You can be the Chancellor of the Exchequer and decide what to cut from the welfare bill.

George Osborne said we need to make £25 Billion cuts to public spending; £12 Billion of which will be welfare cuts.

Francis Maude said we need to make £20 Billion cuts on top of our current austerity plans.

So here is your task. Make 32 Billion worth of cuts to the welfare budget. Pick & choose carefully. You could face Communist revolution or even worse loose next years election.

The Tories are depending on you!

.............................................

Welfare spending 2013-2014


State Pensions 74.22 Bn
Tax Credits 29.91 Bn
Housing Benefit 22.77 Bn
Disability Living Allowance 13.97 Bn
Child Benefit 12.22 Bn
Employment Support Allowance 10.52 Bn
Pension Credit 8.11 Bn
Income Support 6.92 Bn
Attendence Allowance 5.59 Bn
Job Seekers Allowance 5.26Bn
Council Tax Benefit 4.83 Bn
Statutory Maternity 2.39 Bn
Winter Fuel Payments 2.17 Bn
Carers Allowance 2.08 Bn
Financial Assistance Scheme 1.24 Bn
Industrial Injuries Disablement Benefit 0.9 Bn
Over 75 TV Licence 0.6 Bn
Bereavement Benefits 0.58 Bn
Maternity Allowance 0.4 Bn
Discretionary Housing Payments 0.16 Bn
Christmas Bonus 0.15 Bn
Statutory Sick Pay 0.05 Bn
Specialised Vechiles Fund 0.02 Bn
Enterprise Allowance 0.01 Bn

.......................................

Make sure you list all your answers and add the total up.


Why would the £20bn need to be from welfare...? :s-smilie:

Christmas bonus would be first on my list. That was a one year bribe which has spawned down the ages.

I'd scrap child benefit for new future children, and freeze current levels.

I'd cap income based JSA to six months, effective from six months time.

I'd scrap winter fuel payments and increase pension credit.

I'd scrap council tax benefit (councils can take the hit on that)

I'd raise the pension age for women to that of men by 2016, raise the pension age to 66 in 2017 and 67 in 2019.
Original post by illegaltobepoor
Ever wanted to be one of the most hated men in Britain? Now here is your chance. You can be the Chancellor of the Exchequer and decide what to cut from the welfare bill.

George Osborne said we need to make £25 Billion cuts to public spending; £12 Billion of which will be welfare cuts.

Francis Maude said we need to make £20 Billion cuts on top of our current austerity plans.

So here is your task. Make 32 Billion worth of cuts to the welfare budget. Pick & choose carefully. You could face Communist revolution or even worse loose next years election.

The Tories are depending on you!

.............................................

Welfare spending 2013-2014


State Pensions 74.22 Bn
Tax Credits 29.91 Bn
Housing Benefit 22.77 Bn
Disability Living Allowance 13.97 Bn
Child Benefit 12.22 Bn
Employment Support Allowance 10.52 Bn
Pension Credit 8.11 Bn
Income Support 6.92 Bn
Attendence Allowance 5.59 Bn
Job Seekers Allowance 5.26Bn
Council Tax Benefit 4.83 Bn
Statutory Maternity 2.39 Bn
Winter Fuel Payments 2.17 Bn
Carers Allowance 2.08 Bn
Financial Assistance Scheme 1.24 Bn
Industrial Injuries Disablement Benefit 0.9 Bn
Over 75 TV Licence 0.6 Bn
Bereavement Benefits 0.58 Bn
Maternity Allowance 0.4 Bn
Discretionary Housing Payments 0.16 Bn
Christmas Bonus 0.15 Bn
Statutory Sick Pay 0.05 Bn
Specialised Vechiles Fund 0.02 Bn
Enterprise Allowance 0.01 Bn

.......................................

Make sure you list all your answers and add the total up.


Freeze tax credits.

Cap housing benefit at £1600 (mainly effects large families and Londoners but tough).

Cap child benefit at 3 children.

Scrap industrial industries disablement benefit.

Scrap bereavement benefit.

Scrap Christmas bonus.

..

Further savings would come from foreign aid and other departments.

There are several on that list that i would merge and scrap but no more net savings so quickly.
Trying to fix the economy through austerity is like trying to have a successful career by becoming homeless.
Original post by cole-slaw
Trying to fix the economy through austerity is like trying to have a successful career by becoming homeless.


Or it's like paying off your mortgage by cutting your credit card purchases.

Most cuts are sound, there are areas where it's somewhat beneficial to spend though (infrastructure).
Original post by Rakas21
Or it's like paying off your mortgage by cutting your credit card purchases.

Most cuts are sound, there are areas where it's somewhat beneficial to spend though (infrastructure).



Latest figure suggest that austerity has ruined the economy to the tune that we are each one of us roughly £2k worse off.

I am sure that as a well educated chap you are not so gullible as to believe that austerity was necessary or beneficial. The tories wanted to slash the state for ideological reasons, the recession was simply the excuse the needed to due it with remorseless brutality.

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