Do high entry grades attract the most "academically bright" students?

I checked out the history course requirements for Birmingham yesterday - their typical offer is now "AAA-AAB"...

My offer was BBB, I got in with BBC.

I came out with a 2:1 and 1st in my dissertation.

I know for a fact I would never and will never attain A grades at A-level so I would have very little chance of going to Birmingham now. However, I feel that the likelihood of A-grade students attaining a 2:1 overall and a 1st in their dissertation is very likely.... based on the fact that a small percentage of students are awarded a 1st every year....

With the cap off are universities like Birmingham upping their grades to send out a message that they only accept the "best"? Is this just a marketing ploy to attract "top" students?

Or are A-levels easier?

Or are degrees harder?

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Reply 1

TVIO

A Level grades were (are?) increasing so all universities have (especially this year) upped their requirements. For my course (compsci) UCL, B'Ham have now increased it to A*AA from AAA (and AAB a few years ago I believe), and Cambridge have changed theirs to A*A*A for all sciences. Since Cambridge already attracts the best, it's hardly going to be a ploy by them as they interview anyway. Also, B'Ham in particular have somewhat of a reputation for letting people in with sometimes significantly lower offers, and they even give out unconditionals to the best students for some courses to attract them, so in their case it may well be a marketing ploy.

Reply 2

Chlorophile

I think they do. When I first started looking at universities for Earth Sciences, I was really put off by the entry requirements. Before Earth Sciences, I was looking at Engineering and all of the entry requirements for Engineering at top universities were something like A*AA. For Earth Sciences, with the exception of a select number, most of the entrance requirements are AAB or below. And this did cause me quite a bit of alarm at first!

Reply 3

JayReg

High entry grades definitely attract high achievers. Which is no surprising since people naturally want their grades to mean something.

Having greater quality students does allow the university to increase the difficulty of the course. Giving them greater skills to achieve post university and thereby their reputation over time.

Reply 4

Nymthae

There is definitely some perception that grade requirements = quality/difficulty/reputation of course. As demand grows for a course (which inevitably it has done, across the board, as the number of students going has risen) they are still taking relatively similar numbers. They can skim the 150 students off the top, but before that perhaps extended to a region of BBB-BCC, but now is probably closer to ABB-BBB etc. with more of them coming with AAA or similar. The less popular subjects are slowly catching up to the general grade trend of around ~AAA/AAB for an RG university.

I think the case with lots of departments now though, is with the cap lifted on numbers over decent grades, if they up the typical offer then the students that apply are more likely to at least hit the minimum (BBB? or ABB still?) so the university can accept them anyway and get the funding for them being there.

Reply 5

kumon

High entry requirements, but they still let you in with BBB because they want $$$ :colone:

Reply 6

She-Ra

Universities Forum Helper

Original post by kumon

High entry requirements, but they still let you in with BBB because they want $$$ :colone:

Touche

I went before fees went up... small time!

Original post by TVIO

Since Cambridge already attracts the best, it's hardly going to be a ploy by them as they interview anyway. Also, B'Ham in particular have somewhat of a reputation for letting people in with sometimes significantly lower offers, and they even give out unconditionals to the best students for some courses to attract them, so in their case it may well be a marketing ploy.

I absolutely agree with what you say about Cambridge. Yes it's now widely know that Birmingham give out unconditionals... I'm not sure how I feel about it. Sometimes I sense desperation when I hear that...

How do students feel about being made an unconditional offer? It's obviously a complement... but I've heard that sometimes additional pressure is applied i.e. we'll give you an unconditional offer if you accept in x number of days...

Original post by Chlorophile

I think you're not alone... for a lot of students these are "scary grades" because they are the "best" grades in the sense that they are asking for all A's.

You set you felt a little alarmed at first, how do you feel now?

Original post by JayReg

Having greater quality students does allow the university to increase the difficulty of the course. Giving them greater skills to achieve post university and thereby their reputation over time.

I can see this - but I guess what I'm saying is that my grades didn't impact on my academic achievements at university... I performed up there with the AAB students. My dissertation was based on an area where previously there had been very little research...

So what is a "greater quality student"? What does that mean? :cookie:

Reply 7

InArduisFouette

A level grade inflation is driven by increasingly specific course specifications mnaking the range of teaching and assessment options narrower,combined with the completeabandonent of any aspect of norm referencing in marking and grading ...

As an Aside
unless you understand the differences between norm and criteria referenced garding systems you should NOT comment on grades.

Reply 8

InArduisFouette

Original post by kumon

High entry [-]requirements[/-]Indicative offers, but they still let you in with BBB because they want $$$ :colone:

EFA

Reply 9

KingStannis

I saw on the news on results day that universities put on much higher grade reqs than they'll accept as an advertisement.

Reply 10

cole-slaw

Original post by She-Ra

A-levels are easier, aren't they? Someone with BBB 10 years ago is smarter than A*A*A*A* today.

Reply 11

She-Ra

Universities Forum Helper

Original post by cole-slaw

A-levels are easier, aren't they? Someone with BBB 10 years ago is smarter than A*A*A*A* today.

Ooo Cole-Slaw just put a cat amongst the pigeons :wink:

Reply 12

Nellie1995

Original post by cole-slaw

A-levels are easier, aren't they? Someone with BBB 10 years ago is smarter than A*A*A*A* today.

What makes you say that?

Reply 13

nmanvi

Alot of people get annoyed that they want to go to this uni for this course but the entry requirements are too high. I achieved A*A*A* for maths, further maths and computing and i have already started to struggle with some of the maths they presented in my computer science course (with an offer of A*AA)

After I go over the content ill be alright but i simply cant see any one who didnt get at least an A* in maths or an A in further maths coping in this course. So entry requirements are there for a reason since some universities courses demand that you understand a lot of content on day 1

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 14

KBradders

Well I am at Bournemouth University studying TV Production, entry requirements are ABB with an A grade in a specific subject within your offer.

I think the entry requirements, and also the interviews, have meant that the calibre on students is fantastic. It's great being able to talk and debate in-depth about media issues. I went to other universities on open days with lower entry requirements and not so competitive courses and the students hadn't a clue what they were talking about. I am sort of glad that I got a place on a competitive course, although I still think I am wasting my time and money. It's the issue with that everyone has a degree now and everyone will have A-Levels within the next few years due to the increase of age for compulsory education. A lot of jobs also ask for a degree standard of education.

And I would be insulted if I got an unconditional offer, normally it is because they are lacking students.

Reply 15

TVIO

Original post by nmanvi

Imperial?

Reply 16

kumon

Original post by She-Ra

Touche

I went before fees went up... small time!

I absolutely agree with what you say about Cambridge. Yes it's now widely know that Birmingham give out unconditionals... I'm not sure how I feel about it. Sometimes I sense desperation when I hear that...

How do students feel about being made an unconditional offer? It's obviously a complement... but I've heard that sometimes additional pressure is applied i.e. we'll give you an unconditional offer if you accept in x number of days...

I think you're not alone... for a lot of students these are "scary grades" because they are the "best" grades in the sense that they are asking for all A's.

You set you felt a little alarmed at first, how do you feel now?

I can see this - but I guess what I'm saying is that my grades didn't impact on my academic achievements at university... I performed up there with the AAB students. My dissertation was based on an area where previously there had been very little research...

So what is a "greater quality student"? What does that mean? :cookie:

My offer was AAB, but I got in with BBB and this was at a time of £9,000 fees, but my year was controversial because over 45,000 scrpipts had their grades changed in remakrs so universities knew the governmnet was interfering so they said **** it and let me in :smile: