The Student Room Group

Vital long-term ecology study under threat from funding cuts

Here's yet another piece of valuable science that's under threat of being destroyed from reckless cuts to UK science funding. Long-term ecology studies like these are exceedingly rare and have never been more important given the current environmental situation, yet this is all currently on track for termination because of the decisions of utterly clueless bureaucrats. This isn't even an expensive study, costing only £12,000 a year.

A Just Giving campaign has been opened but it's disgraceful that this scientist is having to resort to this in the first place.

Scroll to see replies

Original post by Chlorophile
Here's yet another piece of valuable science that's under threat of being destroyed from reckless cuts to UK science funding. Long-term ecology studies like these are exceedingly rare and have never been more important given the current environmental situation, yet this is all currently on track for termination because of the decisions of utterly clueless bureaucrats. This isn't even an expensive study, costing only £12,000 a year.

A Just Giving campaign has been opened but it's disgraceful that this scientist is having to resort to this in the first place.


Which nurse or teacher would you like to nominate to sack to fund the study?

Which classroom or hospital ward should we shut instead?

In the grand scheme of things ecology is way down people's list of prioritise.
Original post by MatureStudent36
Which nurse or teacher would you like to nominate to sack to fund the study?

Which classroom or hospital ward should we shut instead?

In the grand scheme of things ecology is way down people's list of prioritise.


This, unfortunately.

We don't have unlimited money. Some things have to be cut. Obviously the ecologists think that ecology studies are the most important thing in the world, but everyone thinks that about their own "area of interest".
Original post by MatureStudent36
Which nurse or teacher would you like to nominate to sack to fund the study?

Which classroom or hospital ward should we shut instead?

In the grand scheme of things ecology is way down people's list of prioritise.


From the moment I got the notification of you replying, I knew it would be a stupid response like this. You're presenting an absolutely absurd dichotomy. It's not a choice between closing down a hospital ward or classroom. This study costs £12,000 a year to fund - absolutely nothing in the greater schemes of things - and that's money that could so easily be sourced from somewhere else. I could give you a long and boring list of hundreds of places we could get the money from but for starters, how about the billions of unpaid tax owed by corporations?
Reply 4
Original post by Chlorophile
From the moment I got the notification of you replying, I knew it would be a stupid response like this. You're presenting an absolutely absurd dichotomy. It's not a choice between closing down a hospital ward or classroom. This study costs £12,000 a year to fund - absolutely nothing in the greater schemes of things - and that's money that could so easily be sourced from somewhere else. I could give you a long and boring list of hundreds of places we could get the money from but for starters, how about the billions of unpaid tax owed by corporations?


If it's that important surely it will get funding from the scientific community? Why does the government have to do everything?
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by Chlorophile
From the moment I got the notification of you replying, I knew it would be a stupid response like this. You're presenting an absolutely absurd dichotomy. It's not a choice between closing down a hospital ward or classroom. This study costs £12,000 a year to fund - absolutely nothing in the greater schemes of things - and that's money that could so easily be sourced from somewhere else. I could give you a long and boring list of hundreds of places we could get the money from but for starters, how about the billions of unpaid tax owed by corporations?


But then that argument could just be used by anyone to get funding for anything. "Oh, it's not that much really..." etc. Let's say this ecology study gets funding, some other project in another area could lose out. Then the new guy that loses out will say how vitally crucial his research is, and how it needs money...

I'm sure this research is perfectly valuable. But it's simply unrealistic to expect us to be able to provide funding for absolutely everything that is conceivably useful. I wish the scientist well in his JustGiving campaign.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by Chlorophile
From the moment I got the notification of you replying, I knew it would be a stupid response like this. You're presenting an absolutely absurd dichotomy. It's not a choice between closing down a hospital ward or classroom. This study costs £12,000 a year to fund - absolutely nothing in the greater schemes of things - and that's money that could so easily be sourced from somewhere else. I could give you a long and boring list of hundreds of places we could get the money from but for starters, how about the billions of unpaid tax owed by corporations?


It's not a stupid post though.

The reality is that all of the government funding needs paying for.

If you cut back spending then some things have to be cut.

As a non ecologist, although I understand the importance of performing studies, I'm not really wanting studies funding if there's a funding shorthage.

Sadly it is a a simple as making decisions between funding ecology studies and paying for more important social services. But it depends on what circles you operate in.

Which corporations haven't paid tax are you taking about? And please try to differentiate between illegal tax avoidance and legal tax reduction activities.
Well, as an ecology student I should be outraged, but...I'm not. It isn't ideal, but really, better Guillemot surveys lose funding than, say, bat surveys.
Reply 8
Original post by Chlorophile
From the moment I got the notification of you replying, I knew it would be a stupid response like this. You're presenting an absolutely absurd dichotomy. It's not a choice between closing down a hospital ward or classroom. This study costs £12,000 a year to fund - absolutely nothing in the greater schemes of things - and that's money that could so easily be sourced from somewhere else. I could give you a long and boring list of hundreds of places we could get the money from but for starters, how about the billions of unpaid tax owed by corporations?


Cuts and raising greater tax revenue aren't mutually exclusive activities are they? :s-smilie:
I can't believe people think cutting this is a good thing. Important scientific research should be one of the last things to be cut, especially long term surveys like this guillemot one.

If we can afford to do stuff like build HS2 and give big tax incentives to fracking companies, we can afford £12000 a year for a simple scientific survey. Don't tell me the money isn't there.
Original post by MatureStudent36
Which nurse or teacher would you like to nominate to sack to fund the study?

Which classroom or hospital ward should we shut instead?

In the grand scheme of things ecology is way down people's list of prioritise.


It's £12,000 a year. Don't pretend that we actually need to cut funding elsewhere to get that money - it can be found very easily.

£12,000 a year could easily come out of David Cameron's own salary. Or you could pay for it with slight pay cuts for all MPs. Or how about limiting expenses. That's what's so stupid about cutting this survey funding - the amount of money involved is so small.

Conservation organisations like the RSPB have huge membership, and the RSPB alone has more members than all political parties combined. So ecology is not "way down" the public's priorities. More people care about it than you think.
Isn't this a Welsh Government problem rather than a HM Government's problem?
Original post by RFowler
It's £12,000 a year. Don't pretend that we actually need to cut funding elsewhere to get that money - it can be found very easily.

£12,000 a year could easily come out of David Cameron's own salary. Or you could pay for it with slight pay cuts for all MPs. Or how about limiting expenses. That's what's so stupid about cutting this survey funding - the amount of money involved is so small.

Conservation organisations like the RSPB have huge membership, and the RSPB alone has more members than all political parties combined. So ecology is not "way down" the public's priorities. More people care about it than you think.


£12,000 a year could be found easily. But if 1000 projects used that argument it soon becomes £12 million,

It's a case of budgeting. You prioritise what you spend funding on.

Look at the household budget. You could spend £500 on a holiday. Or you could spend £500 on rent.. Rent is more important than a holiday.
Original post by RFowler
I can't believe people think cutting this is a good thing. Important scientific research should be one of the last things to be cut, especially long term surveys like this guillemot one.

If we can afford to do stuff like build HS2 and give big tax incentives to fracking companies, we can afford £12000 a year for a simple scientific survey. Don't tell me the money isn't there.


Everyone thinks their own study is the most important thing on planet earth. We simply can't fund everything.
Original post by Chief Wiggum
Everyone thinks their own study is the most important thing on planet earth. We simply can't fund everything.


We simply can fund this study though, given how little it costs to run. £12,000 a year - you could easily get that money together from a government budget when you look at how other parts of the budget are spent. As I said, that money could easily come out of David Cameron's own salary, that's the sort of money we're talking about.

Long term studies like this are also very important, because you have data over a long period of time with no gaps in it.

I know you can't fund everything, but cutting a survey that only costs £12,000 a year because "we can't afford it" really is pathetic.
Original post by RFowler
We simply can fund this study though, given how little it costs to run. £12,000 a year - you could easily get that money together from a government budget when you look at how other parts of the budget are spent. As I said, that money could easily come out of David Cameron's own salary, that's the sort of money we're talking about.

Long term studies like this are also very important, because you have data over a long period of time with no gaps in it.

I know you can't fund everything, but cutting a survey that only costs £12,000 a year because "we can't afford it" really is pathetic.


But why should we fund this particular study rather than all of the other studies in existence? Every study could just use the "we aren't actually that expensive" argument, but then when you add them all up, it certainly will be a lot of money.

I've nothing against this guy or his project, and I wish him well in his attempts to get funding, but I don't understand why people think it's somehow disgraceful that he isn't getting funding for it. If you fund this guy, and cut someone else, then someone else will complain etc etc etc.
Original post by Chlorophile
From the moment I got the notification of you replying, I knew it would be a stupid response like this. You're presenting an absolutely absurd dichotomy. It's not a choice between closing down a hospital ward or classroom. This study costs £12,000 a year to fund - absolutely nothing in the greater schemes of things - and that's money that could so easily be sourced from somewhere else. I could give you a long and boring list of hundreds of places we could get the money from but for starters, how about the billions of unpaid tax owed by corporations?


Actually it is. The hole in the funding for Natural Resources Wales, which would otherwise be funding this bird study, exists because its money has been nicked to fund a hole in NHS Wales' budget as this story explains.

http://www.fwi.co.uk/articles/07/10/2014/147041/welsh-farm-budget-cuts-a-39sledgehammer-blow39.htm
Original post by Unruly Marmite
Well, as an ecology student I should be outraged, but...I'm not. It isn't ideal, but really, better Guillemot surveys lose funding than, say, bat surveys.



Eh? Most bat surveys are paid for by developers as a condition of planning consent for development.

edit: for clarity, paid for by developers, not contractors
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by RFowler
It's £12,000 a year. Don't pretend that we actually need to cut funding elsewhere to get that money - it can be found very easily.

£12,000 a year could easily come out of David Cameron's own salary. Or you could pay for it with slight pay cuts for all MPs. Or how about limiting expenses. That's what's so stupid about cutting this survey funding - the amount of money involved is so small.

Conservation organisations like the RSPB have huge membership, and the RSPB alone has more members than all political parties combined. So ecology is not "way down" the public's priorities. More people care about it than you think.


now you mention it, the RSPB's is not doing badly - perhaps they could pay for it.
Meanwhile on radio 4 there is a discussion of the billion pounds wasted in recent years on failed Home Office IT projects...

Quick Reply

Latest

Trending

Trending