When will the Torys lower the Uni fees!!!!!!!!

Education=/=healthcare. Both have different purposes and end goals. Both have different methodologies. I don't see how you can say they are the same.

[quote[Its an abuse of human rights because, as is self-evident, one has a right to one's own property. The NHS undermines that because contribution to it is not voluntary.

But socialised taxation is a given.

What about the high earning non graduates out there?

Should they be penalised even more?

What about the low earning university graduates? The taxpayer definitely looses out with them. The tax payer has to pay out a three or four year jolly.

The whole problem emanates from the numbers we send off to university now for very little discernible economic gain.

You need a degree in child care now to look after kids. How do you justify a degree in wiping an arse, blowing a nose and helping with colouring in?

They do. Everyone in the UK is given the opportunity to have free-at-point-of-use education to achieve the entry requirements. For people who didn`t take advantage of this access courses, college courses, and workplace experience schemes are available. Quite simply everyone who can prove they are academically able has access to a university education. The taxpayer will lend you money to pay the cost of the education, and if you need it, some money towards your living costs while you study.

They do. Everyone in the UK is given the opportunity to have free-at-point-of-use education to achieve the entry requirements. For people who didn`t take advantage of this access courses, college courses, and workplace experience schemes are available. Quite simply everyone who can prove they are academically able has access to a university education. The taxpayer will lend you money to pay the cost of the education, and if you need it, some money towards your living costs while you study.

I disn't forget, since the repayment threshold will rise with average earnings they cancel each other out (your spreadsheet accounts for that right...?).

The average graduate six months after graduation is earning just over £20k aren't they? How can they repay £540 in the first year? That'd need a wage of £27k...

x

So, I could just go and have a hip replacement right now, though there are no problems with my hip?

*unconditional apart from it's necessity to improve the health of the individual within reason (the services offered by the NHS) except in exceptional circumstances.

So, the state has a responsibility for the health of the individual?

Well, that's kinda the point of the NHS, to a point: we pay for it via taxes and then they attempt to keep us in sufficiently good health, supposing we also do our bit, ie not smoking, eating healthily, not drinking excessively etc.

The figure I pulled when creating it suggested an average of ~26-27k a year or two ago, a search just now also suggests figures hat are at least, if not above, the national average
And do you have a source for that increase in repayment threshold, because nothing I've read suggests anything of the sort and I would be very surprised if it were so because of the massive loses it would present.

Well the survey of graduates six months after graduation reports it was £20k in 2012/13
https://www.hesa.ac.uk/stats-dlhe#salary

Could you give me source which is more authoritive? Figues of £26-27k are usually related to what higher paying grad schemes are paying, rather than what actual students make.

RE: repayment threshold, just underneath the table:
http://www.leeds.ac.uk/info/30504/government_support/421/repaying_student_loans

Or under 'interest'
http://www.thecompleteuniversityguide.co.uk/student-loan-repayment-calculator

...I'm guessing your excel sheet doesn't take that into account then...?

Most of the sources I was quoted (or actually were) AGR figures. If you also look at the CUG link provided, the wages undergo large rises in the first few years (for the "all grads med" by almost 20% in the first year, including the adjustments they make to normalise it all), and those figures are based on actual data of wage changes.


If you actually look more closely, at the CUG one at least, it specifies that the increase isn't the wage increase, it's the difference between inflation and wages, so supposing the BoE do their job well and inflation sits at 2% and wages increase by 3%, that threshold will increase by 1% (although that theoretically means the threshold should be going down now), it is also the national average change rather than your personal change.

I also kinda have to thank you for that CUG link because it kind of proves my point. For the occupations listed, the majority pay off their debts and of those that don't all bar one pay back more than they borrowed and that one is retail management.

AGR figures are crap, because they are based on a subset of employers with large grad schemes - taking an average of KPMG, Cadbury, Sainsburys and HSBC doesn't reflect grad earnings.

Could you link me to the methodology please?

Where does it mention the BoE? The quote in the CUG link is:
'The thresholds will increase annually, at the same rate as the national average of earnings.'

Where are you looking at the occupations?

For both your second and fourth questions I propose you actually look at your own sources before throwing them at me. It doesn't directly mention the BoE, merely used as an example given they'er supposed to try to keep inflation at 2%

If you can explain why somebody else should be paying for your decision to enhance your personal earning potential then I'll give you an answer.

I personally believe that the cost of university tuition should be entirely borne by the student - not the taxpayer.

Thats all about the rate of interest... not the change in the threshold...

'The thresholds will increase annually, at the same rate as the national average of earnings.'

Edit
btw, don't think I hadn't forgotten your spreadsheet didn't account for this and so is pretty broken...

The tax payer will effectively be paying for students anyway since the majority of people won't ever repay their loans.

It was "broken" anyway, generalising assumptions "broke" it pretty severely, it's intended as a rough guide and not an absolute calculator, anyway, as I've already said, if that CUG calculator is accurate mine is wildly off anyway, since it has a lot paying of their loans where mine wouldn't have that because of the way the pay rises are factored into mine, then again, you don't recognise their figures.

So the point is the vast majority won't repay the capital, let alone the interest...