Non-Muslims, your views on Hijab and discrimination
So had this experience yesterday, when I was on my back to home and this guy bumped into me and instead of saying sorry, he said 'Move you raghead!'.
I was offended by this. I was born in Germany and was brought up there and hatred towards Muslims there is a normal thing. This means I was use to such things. However, ever since I moved to England, this never happened with me and I know people do discriminate everywhere but this came out as a real shock for me. Why? Simply because I was happy that I moved where people won't show such dislike towards me, especially having lived in Germany where this was a normal routine.
So, here's for the non-muslims, why do you think some would do this? What do you think of such discrimination towards muslim women? Are we not humans? Do we don't have feelings?
I was offended by this. I was born in Germany and was brought up there and hatred towards Muslims there is a normal thing. This means I was use to such things. However, ever since I moved to England, this never happened with me and I know people do discriminate everywhere but this came out as a real shock for me. Why? Simply because I was happy that I moved where people won't show such dislike towards me, especially having lived in Germany where this was a normal routine.
So, here's for the non-muslims, why do you think some would do this? What do you think of such discrimination towards muslim women? Are we not humans? Do we don't have feelings?
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This is a case of genuine islamophobia, obviously the term 'raghead' is an offensive term.
However I think much of the dislike of Islam is based upon liberal values rather than bigotry. For example the empowerment of women is considered to be a hugely important aspect of modern society and it is generally viewed by most people in the western world that the idea that a woman must dress a certain way or be exiled, mocked or belittled by their community is a highly regressive idea. As for the argument that women must be covered in order to avoid harassment from men is seen as both victim blaming towards the women and misandrist as it implies that all men are perverts.
Personally I don't care what people wear, as long as it is entirely there own decision, and are not forced to wear it out of fear of being excommunicated from their family, which unfortunately appears to be commonplace amongst certain strands of islam.
However I think much of the dislike of Islam is based upon liberal values rather than bigotry. For example the empowerment of women is considered to be a hugely important aspect of modern society and it is generally viewed by most people in the western world that the idea that a woman must dress a certain way or be exiled, mocked or belittled by their community is a highly regressive idea. As for the argument that women must be covered in order to avoid harassment from men is seen as both victim blaming towards the women and misandrist as it implies that all men are perverts.
Personally I don't care what people wear, as long as it is entirely there own decision, and are not forced to wear it out of fear of being excommunicated from their family, which unfortunately appears to be commonplace amongst certain strands of islam.
Original post by BefuddledPenguin
This is a case of genuine islamophobia, obviously the term 'raghead' is an offensive term.
However I think much of the dislike of Islam is based upon liberal values rather than bigotry. For example the empowerment of women is considered to be a hugely important aspect of modern society and it is generally viewed by most people in the western world that the idea that a woman must dress a certain way or be exiled, mocked or belittled by their community is a highly regressive idea. As for the argument that women must be covered in order to avoid harassment from men is seen as both victim blaming towards the women and misandrist as it implies that all men are perverts.
Personally I don't care what people wear, as long as it is entirely there own decision, and are not forced to wear it out of fear of being excommunicated from their family, which unfortunately appears to be commonplace amongst certain strands of islam.
However I think much of the dislike of Islam is based upon liberal values rather than bigotry. For example the empowerment of women is considered to be a hugely important aspect of modern society and it is generally viewed by most people in the western world that the idea that a woman must dress a certain way or be exiled, mocked or belittled by their community is a highly regressive idea. As for the argument that women must be covered in order to avoid harassment from men is seen as both victim blaming towards the women and misandrist as it implies that all men are perverts.
Personally I don't care what people wear, as long as it is entirely there own decision, and are not forced to wear it out of fear of being excommunicated from their family, which unfortunately appears to be commonplace amongst certain strands of islam.
I understand that it doesn't fit in with your values, but is it okay to rationalise this with arguments if such comments are going to offend people?
I don't even want to do debate about Islamic and non Islamic values. I'm sharing this because I'm shocked as there is a bigger number of Muslims in the UK than it was in Germany. And you still see this.
This person didn't even know me as a human being and decided to judge me on my appearance. How nice is that.
Plus, I'm not even forced to wear the hijab. I wear it because I want to, so it is my choice.
(edited 9 years ago)
personally I have nothing against anyone who chooses to follow a religion or wear a hijab. I don't think anyone should judge someone based on their beliefs or how they dress. (that obviously has to work both ways)
I am not a muslim but live in an area where there are a lot of muslims. some dont wear hijabs some do. to me they are just people and the person who insulted you was clearly an idiot and a hateful person.
it is wrong to hate. it is wrong to make people feel bad when they have not hurt anyone. if i saw this happening i would stand up for you. I'm sorry that you had to encounter the type of people that make me ashamed to be human.
I am not a muslim but live in an area where there are a lot of muslims. some dont wear hijabs some do. to me they are just people and the person who insulted you was clearly an idiot and a hateful person.
it is wrong to hate. it is wrong to make people feel bad when they have not hurt anyone. if i saw this happening i would stand up for you. I'm sorry that you had to encounter the type of people that make me ashamed to be human.
Original post by sdotd
People should not be discriminated against just because they are a muslim.
Headscarves are fine BUT I do think the face veil should be banned.
I know many people who see the headscarf as a sign of do not talk to me
Headscarves are fine BUT I do think the face veil should be banned.
I know many people who see the headscarf as a sign of do not talk to me
First of all, thank you for saying that people shouldn't be discriminated because they are Muslims.
About face veil, that's your own opinion and you have the right to take a stance on that.
Its funny that people would think that because I know if someone would ask me for help, I would try my best to help the person regardless of their gender. Its just that I wouldn't get into relationships and that is what my hijab signifies. I would talk to my class fellows obviously or someone who I know.
Original post by sdotd
"I'm shocked as there is a bigger number of Muslims in the UK than it was in Germany. And you still see this."
Thats the problem.
Many people don't like that too many muslims are here and some areas have turned into majority or some cases fully muslim.
Thats the problem.
Many people don't like that too many muslims are here and some areas have turned into majority or some cases fully muslim.
Yes, I understand. But considering what happened with me, what was my fault in it? Just because my parents decided to move here? And because my parents and I are Muslims and I wear a hijab and people here hate Islam,they would judge me and show hate towards me? Do they even know how I am as a human? No. Why then is it okay to say such hurtful stuff to one ?
Original post by Graceful_Lawyer
Yes, I understand. But considering what happened with me, what was my fault in it? Just because my parents decided to move here? And because my parents and I are Muslims and I wear a hijab and people here hate Islam,they would judge me and show hate towards me? Do they even know how I am as a human? No. Why then is it okay to say such hurtful stuff to one ?
You did nothing wrong, I was just saying thats how some people feel especially in cities like London, Manchester and my city Birmingham
Original post by alice-louise
personally I have nothing against anyone who chooses to follow a religion or wear a hijab. I don't think anyone should judge someone based on their beliefs or how they dress. (that obviously has to work both ways)
I am not a muslim but live in an area where there are a lot of muslims. some dont wear hijabs some do. to me they are just people and the person who insulted you was clearly an idiot and a hateful person.
it is wrong to hate. it is wrong to make people feel bad when they have not hurt anyone. if i saw this happening i would stand up for you. I'm sorry that you had to encounter the type of people that make me ashamed to be human.
I am not a muslim but live in an area where there are a lot of muslims. some dont wear hijabs some do. to me they are just people and the person who insulted you was clearly an idiot and a hateful person.
it is wrong to hate. it is wrong to make people feel bad when they have not hurt anyone. if i saw this happening i would stand up for you. I'm sorry that you had to encounter the type of people that make me ashamed to be human.
This is exactly what my point is. And thank you. One who passes such comments have no idea how bad the other person would feel and especially if I haven't done any harm to anyone.
I see people as humans first and then as Atheists, Christians etc, then why can't people do the same?
Have you come across this organisation? - http://tellmamauk.org/
No-one should have to put up with indiscriminate abuse, I really hope the person who subjected you to this educates themselves about what the hijab is and what it means
No-one should have to put up with indiscriminate abuse, I really hope the person who subjected you to this educates themselves about what the hijab is and what it means
Original post by sdotd
You did nothing wrong, I was just saying thats how some people feel especially in cities like London, Manchester and my city Birmingham
I understand why people would feel that. However, immigrants do also work hard. Even if one feels that way, why do some think that its okay to pass such offensive and rude comments to people just because of their religion? They can use their right to vote and can vote parties, like the BNP and UKIP. But making a human feel so unwanted, how can someone justify that!?
Its obviously not going to effect my confidence wearing a hijab, if anything it has given me more courage and showed me who I am really. It has shown me that no matter how much I integrate and how nice human I become, and no matter how loyal I am to Britain, I would always be judged on my hijab and my religion.
Original post by Anonymοοse
Have you come across this organisation? - http://tellmamauk.org/
No-one should have to put up with indiscriminate abuse, I really hope the person who subjected you to this educates themselves about what the hijab is and what it means
No-one should have to put up with indiscriminate abuse, I really hope the person who subjected you to this educates themselves about what the hijab is and what it means
No I haven't heard of them but thanks for the link. And I agree with you.
I don't like what Islam teaches, but discriminating against or abusing Muslims just for being Muslims or wearing the hijab is not on. I don't have the right to attack people for disagreeing with me.
My view on religion is that basically people can believe what they like, no matter how wrong I think they are, as long as it is not affecting other people. Clearly your hijab is not affecting other people.
My view on religion is that basically people can believe what they like, no matter how wrong I think they are, as long as it is not affecting other people. Clearly your hijab is not affecting other people.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by izpenguin
I don't like what Islam teaches, but discriminating against or abusing Muslims just for being Muslims or wearing the hijab is not on. I don't have the right to attack people for disagreeing with me.
My view on religion is that basically people can believe what they like, no matter how wrong I think they are, as long as it is not affecting other people. Clearly your hijab is not affecting other people.
My view on religion is that basically people can believe what they like, no matter how wrong I think they are, as long as it is not affecting other people. Clearly your hijab is not affecting other people.
This is exactly what I believe. I mean do not obviously agree with Atheists and their beliefs about God but it would be ridiculous if I discriminate or pass offensive comments against them.
Thank you.
Original post by BefuddledPenguin
However I think much of the dislike of Islam is based upon liberal values rather than bigotry. For example the empowerment of women is considered to be a hugely important aspect of modern society and it is generally viewed by most people in the western world that the idea that a woman must dress a certain way or be exiled, mocked or belittled by their community is a highly regressive idea. As for the argument that women must be covered in order to avoid harassment from men is seen as both victim blaming towards the women and misandrist as it implies that all men are perverts.
So on the basis of these "liberal values", the correct way to empower Muslim women is to ridicule and be rude towards them on the street - call them 'ragheads'? Back to the drawing board...
----
If there is a Muslim woman who is forced to wear a headscarf, she will most likely face two kinds of misery: one from the Muslims who are pressuring her to wear a headscarf, and another from the non-Muslims who discriminate against her and perceive her as inferior or stupid because she is noticeably Muslim.
People should be free to wear what they like and obviously discriminating against Muslims qua Muslims is not okay.
However, it's dangerous to use the term 'Islamophobia' and people in the UK are far to relaxed about the negative aspects of Islam (of which there are many). Obviously we should challenge those who graffiti on mosques, insult people on the street, incite violence etcetera, however we also need to recognise the line between preventing that sort of thing and stifling criticisms of Islam.
However, it's dangerous to use the term 'Islamophobia' and people in the UK are far to relaxed about the negative aspects of Islam (of which there are many). Obviously we should challenge those who graffiti on mosques, insult people on the street, incite violence etcetera, however we also need to recognise the line between preventing that sort of thing and stifling criticisms of Islam.
Original post by arson_fire
You`re publicly identifying yourself as having a set of beliefs that are the opposite of those held by many people in the U.K. I`m not saying this guy was justified in what he said, but when some people hold very strong opinions against your beliefs sometimes you`ve just got to deal with that. I`ve had targeted abuse from muslims telling me to my face that they want to kill me, and been called a child-murdering rapist, simply because I served in the army (despite having never raped anyone or killed any babies), however I wouldn`t judge all muslims by the behaviour of a few.
It`s not pleasant, but it`s something that can happen when you stand up for something you believe in. Chalk it up to experience and move on with your life.
It`s not pleasant, but it`s something that can happen when you stand up for something you believe in. Chalk it up to experience and move on with your life.
The whole world holds different views, that doesn't mean we can be disrespectful towards them.
I'm really sorry that you faced that. I agree with you that it can happen to one when you stand up for something you believe in. The only purpose of this thread was to show how some innocent muslims get attacked just because they are muslims and my shock as to how some can have the courage to offend someone.
This experience hasn't all effected my confidence or courage of wearing my hijab. If anything, given me more courage and I've learnt that no matter how much I integrate and how loyal I am to Britain, I would still be judged on the fact that I wear a hijab.
Any kind of religious dress or adornment (e.g. veil, burka, headscarf, dreadlocks, kippah, turban, payot) is a barrier to clear communication, just as the wearing of tattoos, brightly-coloured hair, piercings and so on can be. You are deliberately setting yourself apart in an obvious way, so you should expect that some people will react badly.
If you don't want the reaction, don't dress or adorn yourself in that way. Displaying evidence of religious (or political) affiliation, particularly in a secular country like Britain where such superstitious beliefs are waning, is likely to engender a reaction in many people.
Something similar would happen if you went to a Moslem country and wore a short skirt.
If you don't want the reaction, don't dress or adorn yourself in that way. Displaying evidence of religious (or political) affiliation, particularly in a secular country like Britain where such superstitious beliefs are waning, is likely to engender a reaction in many people.
Something similar would happen if you went to a Moslem country and wore a short skirt.
(edited 9 years ago)
99% of people who wear the Islamic covering are doing it because their spouse/ dad wants them to and because it is what is culturally done. Very few actually do it out of choice.
Indeed, on the Tube in London it is hilarious to see all these people in Hijabs and veils but visibly wearing mascara and eye make-up.
Bit of a joke really, in fact this is a metaphor for all of Islam
Indeed, on the Tube in London it is hilarious to see all these people in Hijabs and veils but visibly wearing mascara and eye make-up.
Bit of a joke really, in fact this is a metaphor for all of Islam
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