[Dannyboy1236]

(Original post by Blorcyn)
I can't speak for Geography, though I assume it's heavily coursework based, but with English you shouldn't find the work load overly taxing compared with chemistry. I found there is slightly less bulk than with biology, and slightly less complexity than with chemistry - though they do draw on very different areas.

If you are comfortable with arguing your opinion and backing it up go for it as English Lit. Requires very little in the way of memorisation - a few quotes here and there. I think, from what I've seen of the maths so far, it's a far more transferable skill, too. Chemistry will stop you from forgetting the simpler arithmetic, but English lit. Will help you to develop the skills you need to read papers and form opinions (which is invaluable in med school) and to express yourself eloquently and accurately verbally (I can't imagine you won't discuss your ideas in group work, and have to explain them well).

(Ignoring the amount of writing you'll do at uni) Think about the amount of letters you'll have to write to GPs as FY1/FY2 and further on, and the amount of handovers you'll do. Think about getting information from a patient and, to put it kindly, sorting out what's important and what is less important to you and the amount of information you can get from the subtext.

You can see my slant, I'm sure, but I really, really believe it's a great A-level to do before med school.

This is English Literature your promoting, right? (for some reason I'm confused..)

(Original post by Mero8)
Sounds good. I don't know whether it would be good or not to swap either english/geography for maths/physics, so look into that at any Med schools you're interested in. I did Maths, Biology, Chemistry and History

It's so refreshing to see a year 11 with some sense of reality who realises the quality of all med schools and aims to be at one of them, rather than the usual "Are these good for Oxbridge medicine"!

Thanks......not that I wouldn't mind going Oxbridge if given the chance. But others are just as good.

(Original post by myyrh)
Hey I took Geography (AQA) It's a good subject in the sense that there are no difficult concepts to grasp. It's also a four unit A level so less exams too. However it has a LOT of content, more so than any of my other A levels. Also be prepared to memorise an awful lot of case studies Oh and the exams are quite essay based (especially at A2)

How different from GCSE is it? And do you have to do a lot of independent research?

(Original post by mel608)
Biology and Chemistry go without saying I guess. English Lit and Geography are both coursework/ content heavy so i'm not sure if you'd want to swap one? I took Biology, Chemistry, English Language and Maths at AS and found that the most time-consuming was English but as i enjoyed it more than Maths i dropped Maths for A2, and I'm off to study Medicine in September. Maths at AS is manageable if you do the practice papers, the jump up to A2 is pretty big, so maybe substitute Geog/English Lit for Maths and drop it after year 12? If you're comparing Maths and Physics, the general view of friends that did both found Physics to be the hardest, but it's a personal thing of course

Good luck deciding! I think if you can cope with the workload go for what you'll enjoy the most, and what you think you'll do best in. A friend of mine did Chemistry, Biology, History and Geography at AS, dropped History at A2 and he's sitting with 2 Medicine offers, so whatever you choose will be fine

With Geography(please forgive me if I'm wrong, got no clue) apart from the fieldwork what coursework do you have to do?

I'd rather do maths than physics but I'd rather do Geography than Math. Not trying to be arrogant....but I think I probably would be able to cope with the level of maths.....it's really more do I want to spend another 1/2 years studying maths.

Out of interest though....do you do medicine? And if yes, do you use a lot of mathematics?

[Democracy]

(Original post by Spatial_Void)
Your qualms are both quite vague. Is there not (or the development of) problem-based learning in Maths and Medicine?

I was basing that statement on websites such as this:
http://www.edu.gov.on.ca/eng/literac...based_math.pdf

Moreover, a few personal statements, teachers etc. I was wondering whether Maths could benefit me in Medicine a while ago, and time and time again, problem-based learning arose whenever I researched it. Thus, I came to the conclusion that Maths is indeed helpful for developing problem (and project) based learning. If I'm wrong, please explain, I'd be interested in hearing what's genuinely canon and what's a perpetuated myth in the respective courses.

Yep, I was right in my reply to Blorcyn.

I think you need to re-read that article (as irrelevant as it is to a forum filled with UK medical students and applicants)...it's not suggesting that maths is necessary for PBL in medical school, it's suggesting that perhaps maths teachers could introduce a maths specific PBL model to maths lessons based on the successful application of PBL in medical education. It's not saying the two are linked.

Here's an example of a PBL case study. Now you tell me what relevance maths has to it:

[myyrh]

(Original post by Dannyboy1236)

How different from GCSE is it? And do you have to do a lot of independent research?
With Geography(please forgive me if I'm wrong, got no clue) apart from the fieldwork what coursework do you have to do?

AS is pretty similar to GCSE with a lot of the stuff being the same with just greater depth. With AS you could get away with doing minimum research but at A2 you really have to research stuff in depth ( research your own case studies)
There is no coursework in A level geography ( for AQA) I'm pretty sure the other boards are the same. So only four papers to worry about

[mel608]

(Original post by Dannyboy1236)

With Geography(please forgive me if I'm wrong, got no clue) apart from the fieldwork what coursework do you have to do?

I'd rather do maths than physics but I'd rather do Geography than Math. Not trying to be arrogant....but I think I probably would be able to cope with the level of maths.....it's really more do I want to spend another 1/2 years studying maths.

Out of interest though....do you do medicine? And if yes, do you use a lot of mathematics?

I don't do geography so i'm sorry i can't be 100% sure, but friends of mine that do it often complain about the work load, and the amount of material that has to be memorised. Someone else mentioned case studies on this thread so i think there's a fair amount of that. However, saying that I know they do enjoy the subject.

The first year flies by but I know what you mean, why study a subject you wont particularly enjoy for a year? I think then that my advice to you would be to do Chemistry, Biology, English lit and Geography. You're at no disadvantage for not doing maths, and it sounds like you'll enjoy geography more. I think the only positive thing about maths as opposed to geography is that with maths you can be more certain of achieving a good grade if you work your way through countless past papers, whereas geography, like english language, is very hit and miss on achieving a good grade, depending on the paper. But if you enjoy a subject more, you'll be more motivated and therefore do better... in theory

I'm in year 13 at the moment, and received 3 offers for medicine, so i'll be starting my first year of medicine come September, probably at Newcastle. From speaking to students and doctors the impression was that computers and technology do the majority of the maths for you. I had an interview at Leicester and it was an MMI format, with different 'stations' that you rotate around. One of the stations was a mathematical one which i was slightly nervous about at first, as i hadn't done maths for half a year having dropped it, but it was about being able to calculate prescription amounts etc... basically the equivalent of a grade A/B at GCSE, so no, I don't think to do medicine you need a maths A level. I can't see how any of what i did with AS maths could be applied to medicine to be honest

[Spatial_Void]

(Original post by Democracy)
Yep, I was right in my reply to Blorcyn.

I think you need to re-read that article (as irrelevant as it is to a forum filled with UK medical students and applicants)...it's not suggesting that maths is necessary for PBL in medical school, it's suggesting that perhaps maths teachers could introduce a maths specific PBL model to maths lessons based on the successful application of PBL in medical education. It's not saying the two are linked.

Here's an example of a PBL case study. Now you tell me what relevance maths has to it:

I never claimed that there's any specific mathmatical relevance or mathmatical necessity for problem-based learning. I'm saying maths, as a structured course, does promote the development of the fundemental skills used in problem-based learning. I am not saying they will need actual maths to solve it, tautological or otherwise.

[Venomilys]

(Original post by xLovelovelove)
not crucial but if you can get a good grade in maths a level it looks amazing!

not really, it is a fricking easy A level to get an A in.

[Blorcyn]

(Original post by Spatial_Void)
I never claimed that there's any specific mathmatical relevance.

Yes, you weren't explicit but it was definitely implied. By your logic, every course - as a structured course - 'does promote the development of fundamental skills used in problem based learning' or, if you wanted to be more general, any type of academia orrrrrrrr many types of non-specific life skill. This kind of makes your post a null point, really.

Honestly, it's ok to be like right, fair enough, I misunderstood. Get that reflective process started. I struggle to find something new and unique I've done wrong most weeks with the amount of reflection we do here. Here is a general fundamental skill to develop: It's ok to admit/drop it when you're wrong, it's not a shameful thing and you're saving yourself from further mistakes based on erroneous information.

Please don't take this as an attack, I'm just trying to give useful advice to someone who can either take it or ignore it.

(Original post by Dannyboy1236)
This is English Literature your promoting, right? (for some reason I'm confused..)

Aha, crud, not a very good advertisement for what I was saying but yes, I was promoting English literature and comparing it against what I knew of the other subjects you'd talked about.

I'll try and say it in a less convoluted manner now: I think it's a really useful skill to have because it helps you read through complicated and formal literature (if you can do Chaucer you can do an EBM paper) and figure out ways to help yourself understand it and, more importantly, disagree with it as required.

You'll also be doing an A-level where the written form is marked in greater detail than it will be in many other courses and this should help you to improve it which will be useful not just in medical school but as a doctor. A doctor has to write a lot of letters, concisely expressing complicated ideas.

Now, I imagine it won't be as good as something like Drama but with English Literature you're going to have to express your own, complicated, ideas in group work. I think it's just generally how this sort of thing is done. You'll go through a book and discuss themes and ideas passionately, and have to argue using the evidence you have why you think that idea is supported. And then, infuriatingly, put up with people arguing the complete anti-thesis of your idea . . . with the same quotes. Paying attention to the nuances of language in such minute detail and then trying to explain your slant can really help develop your communication skills.

I can feel myself starting to go off on one so I'll just say I hope this was better for you. Oh, and goes without saying, you're expected to read a number of books so you have to be able to motivate yourself to do that.

[Spatial_Void]

(Original post by Blorcyn)
Yes, you weren't explicit but it was definitely implied. By your logic, every course - as a structured course - 'does promote the development of fundamental skills used in problem based learning' or, if you wanted to be more general, any type of academia orrrrrrrr many types of non-specific life skill. This kind of makes your post a null point, really.

Honestly, it's ok to be like right, fair enough, I misunderstood. Get that reflective process started. I struggle to find something new and unique I've done wrong most weeks with the amount of reflection we do here. Here is a general fundamental skill to develop: It's ok to admit/drop it when you're wrong, it's not a shameful thing and you're saving yourself from further mistakes based on erroneous information.

Please don't take this as an attack, I'm just trying to give useful advice to someone who can either take it or ignore it.

Of course, you can gain those skills outside and inside of academics but the OP was asking about Maths as an A-level. And as maths typically requires students to solve problems (obviously with mathmatical relevance as opposed to Medicine), I'd have thought that problem-based learning would be a lot more predominant than other subjects. Hence, it'd be easier to gain those skills (i.e. conceptual learning)

Again, I'm regurgitating what've I seen/heard, I haven't experienced it, and in that sense, I'm perfectly content admitting I'm wrong and I am certainly not taking it as attack. I just thought it was interesting discussion (well, for me at least, considering that I am taking Maths under my 'premise') that was not yet finished and didn't require closure. So, for closure, if you will, could you please summarize your thoughts for, 'Is maths helpful or not for problem-based learning?'.

[Blorcyn]

(Original post by Spatial_Void)
Of course, you can gain those skills outside and inside of academics but the OP was asking about Maths as an A-level. And as maths typically requires students to solve problems (obviously with mathmatical relevance as opposed to Medicine), I'd have thought that problem-based learning would be a lot more predominant than other subjects. Hence, it'd be easier to gain those skills (i.e. conceptual learning)

Again, I'm regurgitating what've I seen/heard, I haven't experienced it, and in that sense, I'm perfectly content admitting I'm wrong and I am certainly not taking it as attack. I just thought it was interesting discussion (well, for me at least, considering that I am taking Maths under my 'premise') that was not yet finished and didn't require closure. So, for closure, if you will, could you please summarize your thoughts for, 'Is maths helpful or not for problem-based learning?'.

Ok, no problem.

To answer your question then: Yes, however, not for the reasons you've expressed. Mathematical problems are very different to the 'problems' in PBL and if you look at the pdf that Democracy posted you should be able to see what I mean.

There are a lot of numbers in them but they're not really numbers that you plug into equations, they're results that you are comparing to normal values and ranges.

You then have to go away and look up from multiple sources (/wikipedia, ) what these symptoms and values mean in the context of the patient that you're concerned with. You have to sift through a lot of written information, make notes and pick out what's relevant.

I'd say these sort of skills are ones you'd develop more in English Literature or Geography.

Maths would be useful because of the fundamental skills you mentioned earlier. The reason I argued it was a null point though is because you'd develop them in the other subjects that the OP mentioned, also.

Specifically, Maths may be very helpful to you pre-med school as it's got a lot of cross over with Chemistry. I did physics at AS and I found the more mathematical sections, mechanics and such, did enhance my understanding of my A-level chemistry. However, the general calibre of student going for medicine means they often don't need this and I was able to puzzle my way through A2 without physics, without too much added difficulty. It's not necessary.

Courses like Geography and English encourage you to engage a wider skill set that you will need at medical school but may find diminished if you spend 2 years in your school science labs. Again, it's not necessary, but I think it's a harder thing to pick up and is much more applicable to the style of work you'd do on a PBL course.

Personally, I find it easier to self learn mathematical skills than linguistic ones and it's for that reason that I'm recommending English Lit to the OP. However, don't be demoralised, the majority of med applicants seem to have studied maths and you're obviously not disadvantaged. Regarding the entire debate, personal preference is the biggest and most important factor.

[Spatial_Void]

(Original post by Blorcyn)
Ok, no problem.

To answer your question then: Yes, however, not for the reasons you've expressed. Mathematical problems are very different to the 'problems' in PBL and if you look at the pdf that Democracy posted you should be able to see what I mean.

There are a lot of numbers in them but they're not really numbers that you plug into equations, they're results that you are comparing to normal values and ranges.

You then have to go away and look up from multiple sources (/wikipedia, ) what these symptoms and values mean in the context of the patient that you're concerned with. You have to sift through a lot of written information, make notes and pick out what's relevant.

I'd say these sort of skills are ones you'd develop more in English Literature or Geography.

Maths would be useful because of the fundamental skills you mentioned earlier. The reason I argued it was a null point though is because you'd develop them in the other subjects that the OP mentioned, also.

Specifically, Maths may be very helpful to you pre-med school as it's got a lot of cross over with Chemistry. I did physics at AS and I found the more mathematical sections, mechanics and such, did enhance my understanding of my A-level chemistry. However, the general calibre of student going for medicine means they often don't need this and I was able to puzzle my way through A2 without physics, without too much added difficulty. It's not necessary.

Courses like Geography and English encourage you to engage a wider skill set that you will need at medical school but may find diminished if you spend 2 years in your school science labs. Again, it's not necessary, but I think it's a harder thing to pick up and is much more applicable to the style of work you'd do on a PBL course.

Personally, I find it easier to self learn mathematical skills than linguistic ones and it's for that reason that I'm recommending English Lit to the OP. However, don't be demoralised, the majority of med applicants seem to have studied maths and you're obviously not disadvantaged. Regarding the entire debate, personal preference is the biggest and most important factor.

Thank you for clearing that up.

[trappedbytherain]

I'm currently in year 11 and my GCSE exams are coming up. I'm considering taking Chemistry, Biology and Psychology for AS-Level along with either Maths or History.
I prefer History and although I am predicted an A* for Maths, I do not think I would be able to do well in it at AS-Level. (I am predicted A* for Chemistry, Biology and History too)
Any advice please?

[Blorcyn]

(Original post by trappedbytherain)
I'm currently in year 11 and my GCSE exams are coming up. I'm considering taking Chemistry, Biology and Psychology for AS-Level along with either Maths or History.
I prefer History and although I am predicted an A* for Maths, I do not think I would be able to do well in it at AS-Level. (I am predicted A* for Chemistry, Biology and History too)
Any advice please?

I advise you to go for what you most prefer, and read the last two or three pages in this thread as they're about choosing maths or an arts subject which the poster preferred more.

[Reina]

I know most universities say they want chemistry with biology, physics or maths, but I was wondering if that means they prefer you to have all 3 A levels from that list, or if doing chemistry, biology and history gives me just as good a chance as doing chemistry, biology and maths.

[hcam]

I think the people who have A2 maths have a better chance of getting an offer. However, this does not mean you should not apply just because there is competition. If you get excellent grades in biology and chemistry, I'm sure you can get an offer.

[Enigma.]

Universities only usually ask for Chemistry and sometimes Biology. I haven't come across any that specifically ask for maths as an A level. In saying that, having an A level that requires rational thinking is never a negative for medicine.

BUT

History is a subject that requires a lot of learning and use of memory too.

So I think you'd be fine.

[Hippokrates]

Maths gives you no advantage in medicine applications.

[purplefrog]

You stand just as good a chance - maths is not needed at AS, let alone at A2, in most cases.

[Sherbet]

YOU DON'T NEED MATHS.

There are still a small minority on here who go around either saying or implying that it's needed. I think certain Cambridge colleges want 3 sciences+maths but pretty much every other medical school does not require it.

If you get AAB with a B in maths you'll be very very limited on places to go or would miss your offer. If you think you have a better chance of getting an A in history do it .

I killed myself to bring my maths up from a C to an A* by year 13 summer, only just scraped my As in chem and bio because I did 5 maths exams in summer, I got 100% in one of my AS history modules, I should obviously with hindsight have gone with history for A2 .

[Thracia]

A few schools ask for it or Physics, but not doing it won't hurt. Statistics might come in handy for later years, but so far I haven't had to do much more than multiplication.

[AkDo]

(Original post by Reina)
I know most universities say they want chemistry with biology, physics or maths, but I was wondering if that means they prefer you to have all 3 A levels from that list, or if doing chemistry, biology and history gives me just as good a chance as doing chemistry, biology and maths.

It will give you the same chance! Completely the same chance. Maths is NOT required nor is it favoured. Do what you think you'll do best at. An A in History is hell better than a B at maths.