Nicky Morgan: 'Pupils held back by overemphasis on arts'

Here is a link to the article in which Nicky Morgan (Education Secretary) suggests that pupils should be encouraged to study science and maths as it will give them a chance of a better job, and that the arts holds students back:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/11221081/Nicky-Morgan-pupils-held-back-by-overemphasis-on-arts.html

What do people think about this?

(edited 9 years ago)

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Reply 1

RF_PineMarten

I think it's rubbish. Not everyone is good at STEM subjects and not everyone has any intention of pursuing a career involving any STEM subjects.

Arts subjects do not hold students back if those students are good at them. Someone who works really hard at an arts subject they enjoy will do much better than someone who does a STEM subject and only does the bare minimum.

Reply 2

Aj12

Crap teaching is what holds students back, not trying to dismiss entire subject areas. Yes some degrees have better job prospects than others, but if someone wants to study that degree then let them.

Reply 3

pane123

Original post by Gee1234

Here is a link to the article in which Nicky Morgan (Education Secretary) suggests that pupils should be encouraged to study science and maths as it will give them a chance of a batter job

Arts students are more likely to have a batter job because they are more likely to end up working in a fish and chip shop.

Reply 4

TheNoobishKnight

I think art degrees and all other non-stem degrees maybe great courses for the person wanting to study it, so they should do it. But they will have to accept that the job prospectus won't be great and will not moan when they don't get a good paying job straight after their degree.

However, IMO STEM subjects are the ones which will evolve us and they are much more respectable.
But people should choose degrees that they will want to do because they will enjoy it, not for the money.

Reply 5

chazwomaq

I agree with her.

Although I think IB is great as it forces you to do science and humanities. But until it's treated equally to A levels by universities, it's best for the smart candidates.

I would also criticise the proliferation of subjects at GCSE and A level that dilute the well established and respected subjects.

People should be free to study what they want at A level. But they should also be made aware that arts and humanities are not as employable or useful after graduation.

Reply 6

MathsNerd1

Original post by Gee1234

Moved to Educational Debate forum :smile:

Reply 7

Sandtrooper

Volunteer Team

I'm indifferent to this.

Posted from TSR Mobile

Reply 8

Skip_Snip

Frankly, creative careers are rarely dependant on degrees. So if people want to be an artist or musician, chances are a degree would be a waste of time. Graphic design or similar, a college course would be more cost-effective and just as useful.

And that's me speaking as an advocate for the arts.

Reply 9

aworldalone

What about holding arts students back by over-emphasising sciences? Obviously everyone has different experiences, but from my own subjective perspective, I've seen so many of my peers try do 3 sciences and Maths at AS/A2 and then completely fail them, only to take humanities and do quite well. I felt as though in my environment sciences were heavily encouraged, to the point where you were treated differently if you weren't a STEM student (absurd of course). I agree that more people should be doing STEM, but I also think it's important for more people who are likely to succeed need to take them, and I feel as though the GCSE, A level gap is still far too wide for most students who just don't work hard enough.

I think what we should highlight is that people do what they're capable of and enjoy.

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 10

2007PSanHa

I'm doing a biological sciences degree. At A level I took music as well as science subjects. I was the only A2 music student at my school - we should be encouraging people to take art subjects or we'll be an endangered species! Also, my A level results weren't great (BCDD) and I really feel that if I hadn't been able to show all my music activities my uni may not have taken me!

Reply 11

llys

I think first someone should determine how many pupils actually have an aptitude for maths/physics/chemistry/computing, how many have an aptitude for humanities, or creative arts, and how many have an aptitude for everything (all-rounders).

Then we can state the obvious, which is that all those pupils who do have an aptitude for maths and sciences should be encouraged to pursue this aptitude at least to A-Level with at least two maths/science subjects, but preferably three (out of four). This gives them the best possible career platform post-A-Level, but it also allows all-rounders to pick a humanity and/or art subject in addition to maths/sciences if they want to, so keeps a lot of non-STEM degree options open.

If pupils already do that (I suspect most do), then everything is fine. If they don't, then I would agree that they are being held back, and something needs to change.

Reply 12

yo radical one

I do not study an essay subject myself but do see a lot of merit in the traditional essay subjects, for me, the problem is too much emphasis on the "feelgood" subjects, such as citizenship and "careers"

Reply 13

fallen_acorns

lol.. as if the arts faculties in schools need any more problems..

As someone who frequently works in arts faculties in secondary schools, It is very interesting to see how far things are changing, and the lack of emphasis on creative subjects in secondary education does really worry me..

I do agree that at university level, creative courses are very very hit and miss, some are good, but a lot of them in my opinion, are complete and utter scams, that will never lead students to the jobs they promise..

But at school level, when people are still learning and developing, getting a feel for creative thinking, expression, arts, music, etc. can be hugely benficial, and really inspire people to pursue these fields (even if university is probably not the right way to do this..)

Its thanks to my time in music in secondary school that I now work in the sector I do, and I am on the career path that I am - all thanks to me being allowed to do extra work, having enough lessons to find what I was interested in, and having good staff who were willing to help me out with that.. and honestly, If I went to school today, I doubt I would have gone into a creative sector, as they are just not given the importance, resources and time, in an increasing number of schools..

Reply 14

Mackay

The arts > the sciences imho. There is something so magical, textured and layered about them. They are so inspiring and beautiful.

Reply 15

Evening

I was great at chemistry but couldn't do the math. I couldn't see the point or relevance, and it cost me a subject I enjoyed.

Maybe instead of trying to focus purely on STEM subjects, we should try changing the way subjects are taught to make them interesting and relevant so people learn them better, as opposed to having some bizarre formula which doesn't mean anything to the pupil, or some boring text everyone has already read.

Reply 16

Mackay

I think a lot of kids struggle to see Maths relevancy when they are poor at the subject. It's something which needs addressing - but don't ask me how!

Reply 17

JamesJones777

I want to study modern languages, I don't think I've been held back. I had the choice to study arts and sciences. Teaching standards held me back more than the arts. If some of my science teachers were better I would have done a combination of Languages and Sciences.

Reply 18

Mackay

Original post by JamesJones777

This is interesting.

I personally turned my back on Science/Maths at GCSE because they were taught to me by incompetent and uninspiring teachers, whereas my English/Drama teachers were great with me and I still keep in contact with them.

A lot of it comes down to factors like those.